View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #2776

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenie
    I'm not positive, but this statement seems inacurate. What foundation is she talking about?

    Anyway, Ms. Colon should move on. The Twin Towers are gone forever. Deal with it.
    I think she's confusing it with the fact that the PATH tracks were rebuilt to have tower placed over them again. The Port Authority was repairing them in 2002 and 2003, around the time in which the "public" was going through the proposals for rebuilding.

  2. #2777

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    Plan proposed on Gothamist...


  3. #2778
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Hmmm ... waterfront properties!

    Imagine the premium price they could get for residential units facing onto that ...

    And a "canal" leading from the river into Manhattan has a historical precedent:


  4. #2779

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    Interesting, bringing water back just a little bit further inland then the natural coastline.

  5. #2780

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    Quote Originally Posted by czsz
    Plan proposed on Gothamist...

    Well, in 100 years from now, if global warming really does melt a shitload of ice in the poles, then the WTC Site will be underwater anyway. Why not get a jumpstart and simply return the site to it's pre-1600s coastline? [Sarcasm]

  6. #2781
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    Silver: 2nd Ave. subway takes a back seat to rail link

    By Josh Rogers


    Some might call Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver “Mr. Second Avenue” for his determined efforts to get a subway line built there, but he said last week that there is a transit project even more important — a Downtown rail connection to the Long Island Rail Road.


    The rail link has the strong support of the Downtown business community, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the politician Silver differs with most often, Gov. George Pataki. But many transit advocates argue the link will not attract enough riders to justify the preliminary $6 billion estimate.


    In an exclusive interview with Downtown Express editors and reporters last Friday, Silver, 62, said the rail link should be a higher priority than the Second Ave. subway, which he still favors. The link would also provide a 20-minute, one-seat ride from Lower Manhattan to J.F.K. Airport, but the speaker said the most important thing is to improve the commute from Long Island to help Downtown businesses.


    “I don’t care if it stops at the airport or not,” Silver, whose district includes the World Trade Center site, said. “What we need is one-seat, Long Island access to Downtown…. I have had the experience of talking to enough businesses down here to know that that’s a real, real factor.”

    According to a preliminary estimate, a new rail tunnel in the East River would shorten the Long Island commute by about 15 minutes each way, although it would not be a one-seat ride since passengers would have to change trains in Jamaica, Queens.

    Gene Russianoff, staff attorney for the Straphangers Campaign, a non-profit advocacy group, said he was surprised to learn that the speaker ranked the link ahead of the Second Ave. subway. The subway line would draw an estimated 200,000 riders a day once the first part is built, perhaps as soon as 2012.

    “The rail link is a stinker,” Russianoff said in a telephone interview. “We think it will move very few people.” He is skeptical of the argument made by business leaders that the Long Island link would spark economic benefits near its stops at the W.T.C., Atlantic Ave. in Brooklyn and Jamaica, and that it will make the W.T.C. a desirable location for international firms. “It’s almost a religious belief on their part that’s not supported by the data.”

    Russianoff said one of the problems with the link to Downtown is that it will only stop near the W.T.C., making it less attractive to Long Island commuters who work closer to Wall St. and won’t want to change trains twice or walk 10 minutes or so to get to the office. The link’s environmental impact statement is being prepared by the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and the Port Authority and is expected to be finished sometime next year.

    Silver agrees with Russianoff that the Second Ave. project, which is estimated to cost almost three times more than the link, is important to relieve overcrowding and provide new service along Manhattan’s East Side. Silver said if phasing the project is the only way to get the federal money needed, he is willing to accept for now the current schedule to build the Lower Manhattan portion last, pointing out that a new governor will be controlling the transit authority next year.

    “The project will survive this M.T.A. board and like everything else, things change as administrations change. It’s the only project being talked about longer than Jerry Nadler’s freight tunnel,” Silver said in reference to U.S. Rep. Nadler’s plan for a rail freight tunnel. “It’s time to get it going.”

    Silver expressed no doubt that Eliot Spitzer, the state’s attorney general, will be the next governor. He said he has spoken often with Spitzer about Lower Manhattan redevelopment plans, but he doesn’t expect the attorney general to comment now, since it is long before he assumes Spitzer will assume office. Silver did repeat many of his criticisms of Gov. Pataki, whom Silver thinks is the person most responsible for the delay in getting construction started at the W.T.C. site.

    “Everything has been an embarrassment,” Silver said. “He laid a cornerstone almost two years ago [for the Freedom Tower]. Not one other stone has been put on top of that cornerstone and you have to move that cornerstone [to begin building].”

    A year ago, Silver called for speeding up the construction schedule on Church St. to get stores and life back to the site, but the Port, controlled by Pataki and the New Jersey governor, is only now starting to build the bathtub required to prepare for office construction. The sites will not be ready for tower construction for another year.

    “The calamity of this whole thing is no matter what you would build down there, that bathtub work had to be done,” he said. “We’re almost five years into it and nobody has done it. There’s 18 months of work that has to get done.”


    Silver attended last Thursday’s ceremony at the site marking the beginning of Freedom Tower construction. In the interview the next day he said it represented progress, but the delays mean that it will take a decade to rebuild the site, assuming there are no more delays. On Wednesday, Silver praised W.T.C. developer Larry Silverstein for selecting architects Richard Rogers of the United Kingdom and Fumihiko Maki of Japan to design Towers 3 and 4 respectively. The buildings will be on Church and on Greenwich Sts. and their addresses will be 175 and 150 Greenwich St.


    Joanna Rose, Pataki’s spokesperson, said that “the governor’s consistent leadership has driven the momentum Downtown,” pointing to the beginning of construction of the memorial, two transportation hubs, the Freedom Tower and the deal to keep Goldman Sachs in Lower Manhattan, catty-corner to the W.T.C. She said “it’s easy to be a critic when you are not actually doing it.”


    Silver said the Goldman deal was a good one, but it ended up costing the public several hundred million dollars extra after the firm temporarily pulled out. Silver said the leader of Goldman Sachs’s real estate department told him last year that the bank dropped out because it seemed like no one was coordinating the W.T.C. site’s security plans. He said the executive told him in a private conversation that “we found out there was no plan, that this Freedom Tower was never going to get built, and he said I don’t think it was malicious but no one talked to anyone.”


    Ultimately, the design and security plans for the Freedom Tower were changed and Goldman agreed to build its Battery Park City headquarters after the state and city offered an additional $650 million in tax-free Liberty Bonds.


    Another threat to delaying redevelopment are lawsuits filed by 9/11 family groups to stop W.T.C. memorial construction on preservation and religious grounds. Some rabbis argue that the plan to list the names underground is a violation of Jewish law. Silver, an Orthodox Jew, said he was unaware of that restriction although he was careful to say it could just be something he had never heard about. Later in the interview, when he was asked about a plan to set up an eruv — an area making it easier for Ortohdox Jews to observe the Sabbath — near his home on the Lower East Side, he made it clear he is not an authority when it comes to Judaism.


    “I have a deal with rabbis for 30 years,” he said. “I don’t pass questions on religious law, and they don’t run in primaries.”



    Josh@DowntownExpress.com

  7. #2782

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    Wow, a politician who gets it -- the viability of downtown as a primary business district totally depends on heavy rail transport to the suburbs.

    My opinion of Silver has just taken a quantum leap.

    The other thing that's necessary is to bring rail in from NJ. My suggestion is that NYS agree to NJ's proposed second rail tunnel into NYC on the condition that it go downtown rather than Midtown.

    Best memorial for 9/11 would have been a World Trade Center Memorial Station on the WTC site. The ceiling could have been inscribed with the names of the victims...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRider
    Silver: 2nd Ave. subway takes a back seat to rail link

  8. #2783
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    Wow, a politician who gets it -- the viability of downtown as a primary business district totally depends on heavy rail transport to the suburbs.

    My opinion of Silver has just taken a quantum leap.

    The other thing that's necessary is to bring rail in from NJ. My suggestion is that NYS agree to NJ's proposed second rail tunnel into NYC on the condition that it go downtown rather than Midtown.
    I think one thing that is not being explained to people enough is that the proposal for the Lower Manhattan rail link will not create a one seat ride from Long Island's suburbs to Lower Manhattan, what it will do is create something similar to the PATH.

    For NJ commuters who want to travel to Lower Manhattan they take NJ Transit to either Newark Penn or Hoboken Terminal where they have to transfer to the PATH, for Long Island commuters to reach Lower Manhattan they will have to transfer at Jamaica Station to the JFK Airtrain.

    The rail link would basically have the JFK Airtrain take over the Atlantic Ave branch, since they JFK Airtrain and LIRR are not compatible nor do they meet the Federal Rail Road administration's crash ratings they cannot operate along side heavy rail.

    The travelers from JFK to Lower Manhattan would get a one seat ride, the Long Island Commuters would have to transfer at Jamaica Station. The problem is that barely enough people from the airport traveling to Lower Manhattan could justify such a investment.

    The Second Avenue subway is projected to carry more people in a single day than every other transit agency in the Nation combined carries in a single day, if Lower Manhattan needs a link to an airport there's been a plan for years that would connect Newark Airport to the World Trade Center by extending the tracks 1.5 - 2 miles to the Newark Airport Rail Link Station. That would cost only $500 Million which is a tremendous bargain for the oppurtunity to connect Lower Manhattan directly to Newark Airport.

    The remaining $5.5 Billion would be better spent building the full portion of the Second Avenue Subway North to 125th street and South to Hanover Square quicker, instead of putting off further funding decisions for 15 years.

  9. #2784
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Clearing the Tracks for a Very Big Arrival


    Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times
    Workers moving electrical piping and other
    utilities for the World Trade Center PATH station
    to make way for Freedom Tower support columns
    and their concrete footings.
    The project takes place in the wee hours, far below
    the streets of Lower Manhattan.

    By GLENN COLLINS
    NY TIMES
    May 8, 2006

    The time is 3 a.m. The place is a dangerous subterranean world rich with obstacles and eerie shadows 65 feet below the streets of Lower Manhattan. Invisible to all eyes above, workers toil to raise a new skyscraper where the towers fell.

    One morning last week, guided by the bare bulbs of construction lights, 15 hard hats picked their way through the World Trade Center pit. They were ever mindful of the threat of the errant PATH train, and never unaware of the proximity of the 600-volt third rail.

    Their effort is not only risky but arduous and precise. This preliminary work is essential if the $2 billion Freedom Tower is to soar 1,776 feet above Manhattan by 2011.

    The work quietly began on March 28, and was proceeding unnoticed until an equipment convoy from a subcontractor arrived nearly a month later, prompting Gov. George E. Pataki and the builder Larry A. Silverstein to announce the beginning of construction, 21 months after the tower's cornerstone had been laid.

    Yet for all the fanfare and squabbling over this gargantuan office building — which is also a political and architectural statement — the work of these underground crews could not seem more humbly utilitarian.

    Before the tower's foundation work can begin, engineers and construction workers are relocating the train signaling system for the World Trade Center PATH station, the power system supplying electrical current to the tracks, the water pipes that lead to fire stanchions and the steel conduit providing compressed air to operate the track switches.

    If left in place, these utilities would block the Freedom Tower's massive steel support columns and their concrete footings.

    "This is the beginning of a five-year process, the first of many, many steps, as we build block upon block upon block in a very tight time frame," Mr. Silverstein said in an interview.

    Under a new rebuilding plan put in place last month, he will no longer serve as the developer or control the tower's 2.6 million square feet of office space.

    Instead, he will be paid a 1 percent fee to build it under the supervision of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, and then turn over the keys to the agency, which will lease, manage and own it.

    "This will be the icon of the New York skyline and will reaffirm our resilience and resolve," Mr. Silverstein commented, "and it absolutely must be built."

    And so the work goes on, long before dawn, in times of sparse ridership, when trains can be diverted from the site.

    "It's a chess game," said Gary Cohen, a senior project manager for Tishman Construction, which is overseeing the work.

    The access time is limited by a tight construction schedule: weekdays from 1 to 5 a.m. and weekends from 1 a.m. on Saturday until 5 a.m. on Monday.

    And so, shortly after 1 a.m. last Thursday, Vin Caposello, a power railman with PATH, carefully touched the prongs of a voltage tester to the third rail to verify that it had been cut off in the work area. "But our rule is that you always treat the third rail as if it's live," Mr. Caposello said, "since touching it is most likely fatal."

    Then, in a claustrophobic area under the former trade center parking garage, workers for Tishman and its subcontractor, Petrocelli Electric, began gingerly stepping over the third rail. At the work space, they began to put the new utilities in place, using saws, jackhammers and drills. The installation of the new system and the deactivation of the old is expected to be finished in August.

    During this time, the all-night PATH trains from New Jersey are arriving through the south tunnel under the Hudson, on Track 4, and leaving on the same track, instead of making their customary loop through the return tunnel. This affords workers safe access to the northern tracks.

    Nevertheless, "we always assume a train could come, because it has," said Brian E. Lyons, the early-morning project manager for Tishman. A few mornings ago, he said, an unannounced maintenance train was stopped before it reached the workers.

    Anthony Fedor, a safety manager for Tishman at the work site, said, "Being here is definitely a challenge, but it's a privilege to be doing this, knowing what happened here."

    After the utilities have been relocated, the next task will be to thread the tower's colossal steel support columns through the spaghetti of tracks.

    Column footings will be placed in 19 locations, and steel will be driven down as much as 15 feet into the bedrock.

    In engineering-speak, this is called "a customized footings package." Usually, support columns are positioned in a symmetrical grid, but the Freedom Tower locations are oddly positioned. "They are shaped and rotated to fit the track geology," Mr. Cohen said, to keep from establishing support pillars, say, in the path of a hurtling subway car.

    Concrete is to rise to the street in April 2008.

    "Everyone says that there's no work going on at the Freedom Tower, so I ask you — what am I and this crew doing every night?" Mr. Lyons asked with a laugh.

    He proposed to his wife, Lori, on the observation deck of the south tower in 1988. He walked off his construction job in Midtown on Sept. 11, 2001, to volunteer in recovery operations at ground zero. He never went back. Mr. Lyons, 46, worked at the site until he found the fire tools, but not the remains, of his 32-year-old brother, Michael, a firefighter who died in the south tower.

    Since then, Mr. Lyons has worked to help build the temporary PATH station and to rebuild Mr. Silverstein's 7 World Trade Center at Vesey Street.

    Outside the tunnel, where no utilities need to be moved, workers have started digging down to bedrock to make way for the Freedom Tower support columns.

    "It's such a satisfying feeling, working down here at night," Mr. Lyons said, standing in the Freedom Tower footprint, outlined in the glow of the giant banks of halogen stadium lights that illuminate the site. "Out in the pit, it's so very quiet. It's a spiritual place. It's an emotional thing for me."

    Copyright 2006The New York Times Company

  10. #2785
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    Concrete is to rise to the street in April 2008.
    That's what we want to see. However, the comments regarding the requirement for Pataki's "large tenants" to be landed for the financing of the FT to be workable, makes the long process seem even longer.
    Last edited by TonyO; May 8th, 2006 at 09:44 AM.

  11. #2786

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    DOWNTOWN'S CONSTRUCTION BLITZ READY TO MOVE ONWARD - AND UPWARD

    By TOM TOPOUSIS
    NY Post



    May 8, 2006 -- As downtown braces for an onslaught of construction, The Post got a first look at the battle plan being drawn up to keep the massive building projects rolling.
    Within two years, lower Manhattan's skyline will become a maze of tower cranes and steel girders, while workers closer to the ground tear up streets, knock down damaged buildings and rebuild the below-ground transit system.

    "This is one of the single largest urban programs ever undertaken in America," said Charles Maikish, who has to coordinate the dozens of massive projects as executive director of the Lower Manhattan Construction Command Center.

    "The challenge here is to do it and preserve the vitality of lower Manhattan," Maikish said.



    Maikish and his team of engineers and planners are now putting the finishing touches on a plan to coordinate the enormous amount of construction work while at the same time keeping the nation's third-largest business district open.

    The plan will coordinate the arrival of 3,000 concrete trucks a month, delivery of enough steel to build the Empire State Building six times over and the arrival of 7,000 construction workers every day.

    "Lower Manhattan's resurgence is being forged in concrete and steel," said Gov. Pataki, adding that the projects will "ensure that downtown is positioned as the premier 21st-century central business district."

    Altogether, $20 billion of construction will take place downtown over the next six years. The World Trade Center, PATH station and the 9/11 Memorial and Museum alone will account for half of that construction budget.

    "It's unprecedented," said City Councilman Alan Gerson, a Democrat representing lower Manhattan whose primary concern is having an independent monitor to watch for potential environmental problems from all the work. Gerson said he's considering action by the City Council to get such an independent monitor.

    Much has been made about the 10 million square feet of office space that will be built, but developers are busy with a residential boom that will boost downtown's population by 40 percent over the next four years during the height of construction.

    Planned residential towers will add at least 8,000 apartments and condos by 2010, including five buildings slated for Battery Park City and two more across West Street at Chambers and Warren streets.

    The project will tax the limits of the city's bridges, tunnels, highways and streets - not to mention the patience of 240,000 people who commute to work in lower Manhattan every day and the 36,000 who call it home.

    To keep traffic rolling, the command center will create a satellite office of the city's Long Island City traffic center in lower Manhattan, where they can make immediate adjustments to traffic patterns as problems arise.

    Maikish said his group is working with builders to set up staging areas for construction workers so that they won't all try to drive into lower Manhattan.

    Lower Manhattan's voracious appetite for concrete will kick in about six months from now, and at its peak, the downtown projects will consume 3,000 truckloads of concrete a month from plants in Brooklyn and Queens.

    Maikish said the command center will have to coordinate with the Department of Transportation and the Police Department to make sure those trucks can reach their destinations within 30 to 45 minutes. Any longer and the concrete is ruined.

    The trucks will roll in over the Manhattan Bridge or through the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel, unless Maikish and his engineers can come up with a plan to build a temporary mixing plant downtown to speed the flow of concrete.

    Engineers are studying an alternative plan to mix concrete at a temporary plant in lower Manhattan to speed delivery, but that would likely have to delay construction of parts of the Hudson River Park, the only site that is potentially suitable.

    Maikish said his agency has been working with contractors to line up heavy equipment, competing with projects in the Gulf Coast.

    Thirty-four massive tower cranes will be needed - four alone at the Freedom Tower - to feed materials to the skyscrapers.

    While much of the work will be heading skyward, one of the largest construction projects is digging a massive, 80-foot-deep foundation for three office towers slated for the World Trade Center's Church Street Corridor, beginning by summer.

    That project will involve 2,000 trucks a day to haul off the rubble.

    Moving pedestrians through the work sites is another challenge, with plans to reroute commuters over bridges and skyways where needed.

    Maikish said the command center's main mission is to make sure that each project, public or private, is coordinated through a central agency.

    "We've got to get materials in, the labor force in and heavy equipment in. It's an enormous job," Maikish said.

    tom.topousis@nypost.com

  12. #2787
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    The plan will coordinate the arrival of 3,000 concrete trucks a month, delivery of enough steel to build the Empire State Building six times over and the arrival of 7,000 construction workers every day.
    I wonder if they considered or are considering using the PATH tracks to move equipment into the site and to carry debris out, they could build a materials handling/ disposal yard in Kearny and shuttle crew, materials and debris back and forth using PATH work trains.

  13. #2788
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    They would have to do some heavy scheduling for that though.

    I think they probably did think of that already, but given the shorter rail car size, it might have been a PITA to try to get starndardized equipment and such on non-standard (twisty) track.

    I don't know.

  14. #2789
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT757
    I wonder if they considered or are considering using the PATH tracks to move equipment into the site and to carry debris out, they could build a materials handling/ disposal yard in Kearny and shuttle crew, materials and debris back and forth using PATH work trains.
    That's a really inventive idea. Save us from having our roads ripped up further from heavy trucks.

    Bravo!

  15. #2790
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    Similar strategies were used in the rebuilding of Potsdammer Platz in Berlin, and are used for urban deliveries in Bremen, Germany.

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