View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #2836


    Mr. Foster's Tower 2 will rise somewhere from 1,300 feet to 1,450 feet; Mr. Rogers's Tower 3 from 1,250 to 1,350 feet; and Mr. Maki's Tower 4 from 1,200 feet to 1,300 feet. The Twin Towers of the World Trade Center, were 1,362 and 1,368 feet tall.
    That is absolutely fabulous! I hope each and everyone has a spire too. It would look beyond fantastic, the real life Emerald City. I could care less about actual roof or occuppied space height.

    STR does fantastic models, just don't let him design the spires...

  2. #2837
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Chicago, Illinois


    The spires are just the roof tops reduced to 5% in both X and Y dimensions. I figured that was the most impartial way to make them.

    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby
    STR, boy you sure whip 'em out quick, don't you? The drawings that is.
    You do this for a living?
    I do it for side income. I don't have the resume or certs/degrees to do it full time and get regular business.

  3. #2838


    Quote Originally Posted by davestanke
    The PA lists heights from 300' below ground. That will shrink the buildings a bit.
    Holy flawed logic! In the same paragraph the Freedom Tower is listed at 1,776 feet and the former WTC at 1,362 feet and 1,368 feet, we all know the Freedom Tower wont be 1,446 feet to its pinnacle and the former WTC wasn't 1,062 and 1,068 feet tall. Second why would the PA list the buildings from 300 feet below ground? The deepest part of the bathtub itself is nowhere near 300 feet deep.

  4. #2839


    Quote Originally Posted by davestanke
    WTC heights and freedom tower heights are from ground level. The others were reported on a different basis. It may have been a mistake, either journalistic or failure of source to disclose the difference. I'm sure we'll hear about it in the Journal in a future issue.
    Do you have a basis for this statement, or is it speculation?

  5. #2840
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    New York City


    Nice models STR.

    Notice how 7WTC looks so tiny with the new towers compared to older renditions like this one:

  6. #2841
    Forum Veteran
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    Feb 2003
    New York City


    NY1 Exclusive:

    Outgoing LMDC Chair Cites Progress Downtown

    May 17, 2006

    Outgoing Lower Manhattan Development Corporation Chairman John Whitehead says he is proud of the progress made in redeveloping the World Trade Center site, but admits the emotions associated with the site may have slowed the project.

    Whitehead, who announced his resignation from the LMDC last week, spoke about his tenure with the organization in an exclusive interview with NY1’s Gary Anthony Ramsay.


    Across from the rebuilding and reflection at the World Trade Center site sits the office of John Whitehead, who recalls the press conference four and half years ago announcing he would be heading up the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, a post he expected to hold for just one year.

    "I remember leaving that with my shoulders drooped," he said.

    Burdened perhaps with the huge task in front of him: re-development of 16 acres that was part crime scene, part commercial symbol, part neighborhood and part graveyard.

    "It was all little harder than I had expected, a little more difficult, a little more controversial, but pretty much what I knew it was going to be like," he said.

    But from no money, no staff and no office, under his leadership the LMDC has grown into a 72-person agency responsible for $2.8 billion in federal money allocated for rebuilding large swatches of Downtown.

    "There are twice as many people that live in Lower Manhattan as there were before 9/11. It's a great residential boom area. It's a great place to live."

    It seems however despite successes, controversy will still follow this 84-year-old out the door as he leaves during difficult times.

    Body parts are still being found in the area. The cost of the memorial has recently been estimated at anywhere between $500 million and $1 billion, even on the lower end it would be three times more expensive than any other U.S. monument.

    Most glaring to critics of the rebuilding effort is the hole that remains at the construction site. Progress has been slow with a deal to build the Freedom Tower and other structures only recently put in place and completion still many years away.

    When asked how the public perception that the rebuilding process has been a big mess affects him, Whitehead had this to say:

    “It grates on me because it largely isn't accurate," said Whitehead. "Most things are going well but there is always something at the margin somewhere that is a mess, there is always a controversy about something as you develop a mammoth unique project."

    Whitehead says the public should know the LMDC doesn't operate in a vacuum and answers to many other interests: the governor, the mayor, the Port Authority, several city, state and federal elected officials and victims' family members among them.

    But when asked which agency or individual made it more difficult than it needed to be, Whitehead did not single anyone out.

    "They all did at one time or another," he said. "Mostly, though, they have been cooperative and helpful and as I look back, a joy to work with, such fine people."

    With such a diplomatic answer, it is obvious that Whitehead is no stranger at navigating obstacles. After serving in the Navy in World War 2, he spend 38 years at Goldman Sachs before leaving as a partner. In 1985, he joined the Reagan administration as Deputy Secretary of State.

    Now even as he leaves the LMDC, he doesn't retire completely as he remains on the board of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation.

    But knowing what he knows about the job he is leaving, would he do it again?

    "I would say that I probably shouldn't, but I probably would do it again," he said.

    Whitehead announced his resignation last week. His last day on the job is May 31st, but he will remain on the board of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation.

    Meanwhile, the former president of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation is returning to the organization as its new chairman. After acting as LMDC president for two years, Kevin Rampe left the agency last year to work for the private sector.

    In addition to the unpaid position of chairman, Rampe will remain a Director of the WTC Memorial Foundation Board and a member of its executive committee.

  7. #2842

    Default I have a basis

    I have a basis, but I haven't followed it up to the degree that I'm willing state specific numbers, and I'd ask a for confirmations from other sources before putting it in an article. Let's just say that there is a strong indication that the height of the towers other than the Freedom Tower in the article were over stated by a couple hundred feet and that it was probably a communication error, simply not converting the heights to the same basis. That information fits with my (and the board's in general) impression that the reported heights for towers 2, 3, and 4 feel higher than originally planned and that there have been no public revisions of the Master Plan in these areas.

    Beyond that, I'd wait for the WSJ to really explain the numbers. I just don't want the board to get hopes up for what appears to me to be a mistake. Be prepared for a downward revision in earnings, as they say at Enron.

  8. #2843


    I did a little research and here are the heights from the latest EIS available on but its from 2005 and may have changed as part of the recent deal with Silverstein.

    The proposed shapes or bulk forms of Towers 2, 3, 4, and 5 have been slightly modified to maintain the downward spiral form of the relative tower heights while providing commercially viable floor plates. The footprint of Tower 2 would increase slightly to make viable Class A commercial office floor plates. The footprint would increase to the south, and consequently the
    building would decrease in height to 1,150 feet, compared with a height of 1,201 feet analyzed in the FGEIS. The height of Tower 3 would also decrease, from 1,080 feet to 1,050 feet. However, Tower 4 would be taller—increasing 47 feet to 1,000 feet.
    This of course doesn't include architectural elements (such as spires) atop the buildings.

  9. #2844
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Manhattan - UWS


    That is awesome! I can't wait for the final result on September 20! Just 5 days after my birthday!

  10. #2845


    May 18, 2006
    Governor Names a Replacement Official in the Push to Begin Rebuilding Ground Zero

    Eager to show progress after months of squabbling over the memorial and commercial development at ground zero, Gov. George E. Pataki moved quickly yesterday to replace John C. Whitehead, the former banker who headed the state authority in charge of rebuilding downtown.

    The governor said he had appointed Kevin M. Rampe as the chairman of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the same organization he once served as president, to complete the design guidelines for the 16-acre World Trade Center site and to coordinate the redesign and construction of the memorial by Sept. 9, 2009. Last week, Mr. Whitehead, 84, announced that he was stepping down at the end of the month.

    Mr. Pataki and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg also said yesterday that they had asked Frank Sciame, a builder and developer, to convene yet another downtown committee, to ensure that a proper memorial is built within the $500 million budget recently imposed by the state and the city. The World Trade Center Memorial Foundation's latest estimate had put the cost at nearly $1 billion.

    The committee, which includes the architects Michael Arad, Peter Walker, J. Max Bond Jr. and Daniel Libeskind, will work on refining a budget and a design by June 15 with the development corporation, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the memorial foundation. This formally takes the design out of the foundation's hands, a move that drew some criticism yesterday.

    The announcements came a day before Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver was to convene a state hearing at 7 World Trade Center to look into the lack of progress and coordination in rebuilding Lower Manhattan, more than four years after 9/11.

    At the same time that hearing begins, the governor and the mayor are scheduled to hold a 10:30 a.m. news conference at 1 Hudson Street to announce that Sears, Roebuck & Company has moved 80 product designers there from Chelsea. The employees moved in last week.

    Mr. Silver said yesterday that it was unclear exactly how much progress had been made in rebuilding at ground zero.

    He said it now looked like the cornerstone the governor laid for the Freedom Tower almost two years ago would have to be moved. He also said he would ask state and city officials to explain the deal they recently completed with the developer Larry A. Silverstein, and exactly when two towers damaged on 9/11 — the Deutsche Bank building and Fitterman Hall — would finally be demolished.

    "The purpose of my hearing," Mr. Silver said, "is to put all these quote-unquote announcements in perspective. There's been a bumbling of everything that goes on down there. There's been a floating blame game. But there's still a hole in the ground with nothing sticking out."

    Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff and Mr. Silverstein, who has an agreement to build three office towers at ground zero, are scheduled to testify this morning. Charles A. Gargano, the state's chief economic development official; Stefan Pryor, the president of the development corporation; and Kenneth J. Ringler Jr., the Port Authority's executive director, are to testify in the afternoon.

    Mayor Bloomberg and Thomas S. Johnson, chairman of the memorial foundation's executive committee, endorsed the choice of Mr. Rampe.

    "I am humbled by the opportunity to play a small part in bringing back Lower Manhattan," said Mr. Rampe, an insurance company official.

    The governor said that Mr. Rampe "brings the dedication, experience, energy and insight necessary to keep the momentum going on the reconstruction of the World Trade Center and the revitalization of downtown."

    Officials said that Mr. Sciame, chairman of the F. J. Sciame Construction Company, and his committee would present the mayor and the governor with refined design proposals for the memorial by June 15, then public comments would be solicited. The development corporation plans to adopt a final design in July so that construction can begin by Sept. 11.

    That announcement drew some fire yesterday. "Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg have lost their compass," said Monica Iken, who, like Mr. Rampe, is a board member of the foundation. "They're returning to the practice of railroading the memorial process for a political agenda."

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  11. #2846
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY


    Quote Originally Posted by Monica Iken
    "They're returning to the practice of railroading the memorial process for a political agenda."
    Railroading would imply moving quickly. I don't think so, Monica.

  12. #2847

    Default What agenda?

    We got where we are because of political agendas. It's now being reworked due to a more basic agenda: money.

  13. #2848


    9/11 kin suit over memorial is tossed


    A judge has nixed a bid by 9/11 families seeking to halt construction of the World Trade Center Memorial in an effort to preserve the footprints of the fallen towers.

    A lawsuit, filed by the Coalition of 9/11 Families and six family members, charged work on the memorial site would permanently alter the concrete slab on which the north tower stood.

    The coalition, whose members have been consulted on the memorial planning process, also argued it hadn't been shown less intrusive alternatives to the chosen design.

    But Manhattan State Supreme Court Justice Shirley Kornreich, in a decision made public yesterday, ruled there was no legal basis to make planners preserve the slab.

    She added that the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.'s consultation of the families was "exhaustive and far beyond anything required by [federal] law."

    "We are pleased the court agrees that we have fulfilled our ... consulting obligations and that our preservation efforts have been 'exhaustive,'" Lower Manhattan Development Corp. Vice President John Gallagher said yesterday.

    Anthony Gardner, a leader of the Coalition of 9/11 Families, said: "We're extremely disappointed. "We will continue to fight to see that the historic footprints [of the twin towers] are preserved."

    News of the decision followed days of talk about an overhaul of the design of the memorial and memorial museum to cap its cost at $500 million - half the estimated $1 billion it would have run if built as currently envisioned.


  14. #2849
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    World Trade Center Insurers May Stop Payments

    Published: May 18, 2006

    An agreement reached last month between the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the developer Larry A. Silverstein for the rebuilding of the World Trade Center site may be used by some of the insurance companies in an effort to renege on their obligations on $4.6 billion in insurance, Mr. Silverstein said today.

    Testifying before a panel of the State Assembly headed by Speaker Sheldon Silver, Mr. Silverstein said, "The insurance companies, by many different tactics, have tried to avoid their responsibilities" since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, in which hijackers flew commercial airliners into the Twin Towers.

    Last month the Port Authority and Mr. Silverstein reached an agreement to revise the lease the developer holds on the 16-acre site. Under the terms of the deal, Mr. Silverstein surrenders control of the $2 billion Freedom Tower, along with more than one third of the ground zero site, to the Port Authority. But he would retain the right to build three office towers on the most valuable parcels there, along Church Street on the east side of ground zero.

    The money for the rebuilding of the site is coming from insurance payments and Liberty Bonds. Recently, Mr. Silverstein said, the insurance companies have indicated that they may stop making payments because of the new agreement.

    "We can't allow the insurance companies to hold up the revitalization of Lower Manhattan," Mr. Silverstein said today, nothing that the companies have been making monthly payments but those payments might be halted as early as next month.

    Asked whether the Freedom Tower could be built without the insurance company proceeds, Mr. Silverstein said, "If the insurance company proceeds are not available, then you won't be able to build the building."

    Mr. Silverstein said he needed the help of government in persuading the insurance companies to continue making their payments but that litigation was not an option.

    Kenneth J. Ringler Jr., the Port Authority's executive director, said in an interview that the Port Authority had written to the chief executives of the insurance companies requesting that they make good on their obligations.

    Executives of Silverstein Properties insist that the Port Authority was a co-insured party at the World Trade Center so there is no legal basis for the insurance companies to withhold any of the money that they are obligated to pay. So far the insurance companies have provided $2.2 billion in insurance proceeds for the project. Most of that money has been spent.

    Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff was the first witness this morning and spoke for 90 minutes. He cited a cascade of dollar figures and statistics outlining public investments downtown, and the singular place of Lower Manhattan in the city's economy. He said that when a final agreement is reached on the memorial, there will be a significant increase in activity.

    "We're a month or two away from completing a bold and innovative plan for Lower Manhattan," he said.

    While Mr. Silver was presiding over the hearing in Lower Manhattan, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Gov. George E. Pataki were several blocks north in SoHo, using a ribbon-cutting for the new design offices of Sears Holdings Corporation to draw attention to what they say is all the progress being made near ground zero.

    "Today Sears's new design office joins a host of creative companies that have relocated to the area recently," Mr. Bloomberg said at a news conference in the offices at 1 Hudson Square, at Varick and Grand Streets. "Back in 2001, I think it's fair to say, nobody could have imagined such a bright future for Lower Manhattan. But this neighborhood's growth has exceeded all expectations."

    With $10 billion worth of public and private construction, a commercial occupancy rate of 89 percent and a growing residential population, Mr. Bloomberg said, Lower Manhattan is already becoming "a vibrant, 24-7, mixed-use community."

    Mr. Bloomberg also had kind words for Kevin M. Rampe, the new chairman of the lower Manhattan Development Corporation, saying, "This is exactly the right guy and he's going to do a great job."

    Even as criticism about the pace and seeming lack of clear direction at ground zero mounts, Mr. Pataki was also upbeat, at one point adopting "under construction" as a mantra to show how far along things are.

    "This is the most exciting place in the world to be, the most creative place in the world to be and, as the mayor said, Lower Manhattan just continues to get better and better every day," Mr. Pataki said. "The Calatrava train station: under construction; the Freedom Tower: under construction; the Fulton transit hub: under construction; the West Street promenade: under construction; the Goldman Sachs global headquarters: under construction."

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  15. #2850
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    New York City


    NY Sun

    A New Hurdle May Halt WTC Project

    BY DAVID LOMBINO - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    May 19, 2006

    Construction on the Freedom Tower could come to a grinding halt less than a month after it started if insurance companies decide to stop payments in light of the most recent deal struck between Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority.

    "The importance of the insurance companies ensuring their obligation is total," Mr. Silverstein said yesterday. "Without the proceeds, without Liberty Bond financing, there is no way you can rebuild the trade center."

    A delay in settling the question of insurance payouts would threaten the agreement reached on April 26 - after months of bickering and failed negotiations - between Mr. Silverstein, who holds a 99-year lease on the former World Trade Center site, and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the 16-acre site.

    Under the agreement, Mr. Silverstein forfeited his rights to lease out the Freedom Tower and another tower south of ground zero. As part of that exchange, the Port Authority would receive about 35% of future insurance payments - worth hundreds of millions of dollars - related to the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.

    Mr. Silverstein would retain the right to construct three commercial towers at ground zero and retain about 57% of the insurance proceeds. The remainder of the proceeds would be dedicated to building retail at the site. Silverstein Properties was expected to receive an estimated $3.2 billion more in insurance money from the total award of $4.6 billion.

    The agreement requires that a clarification of the insurance claims be settled by September for the deal to move forward. A lengthy court battle could severely delay the delicate timeline set out in the deal.

    Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority sent a joint letter on May 15 to the heads of 16 insurance companies, asking for assurance that they would pay out the claims under the new agreement. The letter gave the insurers until Monday to respond.

    The transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars in insurance money is presumably going to be scrutinized by the insurance companies who are still battling Mr. Silverstein in court over the amount of the final settlement.

    The chairman of the insurance company Swiss Re America, Jacques Dubois, told The New York Sun that the new agreement would require a reevaluation of the terms of coverage.

    "There was a conceptual framework that has been agreed to and we need to see details of the final agreement to determine if it affects our coverage obligations," he said.

    Other insurers, including AIG and Chubb Corporation, said their obligations to the World Trade Center site are complete. Representatives of Allianz Insurance Company refused to comment.

    An executive of Silverstein Properties, John Lieber, said the terms of the insurance policy named the Port Authority and Silverstein Properties as co-insurers, like "husband and wife," and that the insurance payouts should be transferable from one entity to the other.

    If the companies do refuse payment, the executive director of the Port Authority, Kenneth Ringler, said yesterday that the Port Authority and Silverstein Properties would file a lawsuit to obtain the money. But Mr. Ringler expressed optimism that the insurance companies would go along with the new arrangement.

    "I don't expect they will say no," he said.

    A spokeswoman for Governor Pataki yesterday said the governor urged the insurance company to continue making their payments.

    The announcement about the insurance question came yesterday during Mr. Silverstein's testimony at a hearing in front of a state Assembly committee, and state speaker, Sheldon Silver.

    Leaders from the city, the state, and the Port Authority also testified during the day-long event. Most officials read from lengthy scripted reports updating the progress of rebuilding Lower Manhattan. The panelists submitted to questioning by Mr. Silver and Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, a Democrat of Westchester, over the slow pace of progress and details of the recent agreement.

    Despite an outpouring of confidence and optimism by those that testified,the questioning exposed cracks and raised questions on the potential to reach the ambitious timeline under which building would be completed by 2012.

    "My analysis of it is an agreement to agree, basically, with a lot of questions," Mr. Silver said.

    "I wouldn't have another groundbreaking," Mr. Brodsky said.

    Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff, the city's leading development figure, said he was "90% plus" confident that the buildings would be built on schedule. He called the deal, "unusual in virtually every single way. We have broken barriers in many cases."

    Messrs. Brodsky and Silver questioned officials about specific provisions that could trip up the April deal, which must be finalized by September. Outstanding points include the transfer of the retail development rights to Silverstein Properties from developer Westfield America, and where the state will find government tenants for 1 million square feet of office space. Mr. Brodsky wondered aloud whether a large proportion of government tenants would affect development and the return on investment.

    "It sounds like a lot of the revenue stream here is taxpayer revenue for government office space," Mr. Brodsky said.

    Messrs. Brodsky and Silver asked for more detailed submissions from the state, the city, and the Port Authority about the use of more than $20 billion in federal funds given to New York City following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

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