View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #3076
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    It's not the "LAST" of the WTC -- what about all that steel in the NW corner?

    Perhaps this is the sole remaining chunk of building material above grade but, come on -- it's sitting at practically the intersection of Greenwich / Fulton.

    Are people going to demand that the escalator be re-installed (this lump shared both a stair and an escalator) as well?

  2. #3077
    The Dude Abides
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRider
    Jackhammer it to smithereens and sell off bits of it as "authentic" pieces of the World Trade Center.
    Or, better yet, pulverize it into tiny particles and sell it in those little glass bottles (you see a lot of these souvenirs in places like Cancun and Hawaii). And, instead of using water from the ocean, put some of the Hudson in there. Oh, and of course, give a share of the profits to the Memorial foundation. I hear they need the money.

  3. #3078

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    Quote Originally Posted by stache
    Actually you can see part of the old WTC if you exit the E train (I believe) and head towards PATH. It's spooky, just kind of a vestibule covered in the old travertine with a few steps.
    Stache - Any chance you can post a photo?

  4. #3079
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    My camera doesn't work. Maybe LeCom might get a chance, if it's convenient for him.

  5. #3080

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    Menin says Port’s interested in W.T.C. school

    The Port Authority will consider building a middle school at the new World Trade Center, Community Board 1 chairperson Julie Menin said.

    Kenneth Ringler, Jr., executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the Trade Center site, told Menin that he would consider building a new middle school for Lower Manhattan in Trade Center Tower 5. “He was very supportive of the idea,” said Menin at a recent C.B. 1 meeting.

    Tower 5 will rise where the Deutsche Bank building now stands at 130 Liberty St. Deutsche Bank was contaminated and damaged on 9/11 and is now being cleaned and demolished.

    The community has long been advocating for a new middle school for the neighborhood. The district has been flooded with new residents since Sept. 11, 2001 as office buildings have converted to residential condos and new residential towers have sprouted. Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff described the neighborhood as the fastest growing in the city with a birthrate that has increased by 250 percent since 1991. “We have a population explosion,” Menin told Downtown Express. “Our population has doubled, where are these children going to go to school?”

    Menin first fielded the idea of a school in Tower 5 to Doctoroff in June. At the time, he told her he would put together a team to look at the idea, she said. A few days later Doctoroff gave his own version of the conversation, telling reporters that he’d merely had a “brief, brief conversation” with Menin about the idea and that there were budget constraints to consider.

    Menin isn’t hedging her bets on Tower 5 — she described landing a school there as an “uphill battle” — and is also looking at Site 2B in Battery Park City, the site of a planned Museum of Women’s History. The museum, a project of First Lady Libby Pataki and Lynn Rollins, an advisor to Governor George Pataki, has never materialized in the six years since it was announced.


    —Ronda Kaysen

    Downtown Express is published by
    Community Media LLC.

  6. #3081

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    Quote Originally Posted by alonzo-ny
    i think it should stay as it is the last piece of th trad centre still there in its original position. i also think if they remove it the keep it removed as if it is removed at that moment it ceases to be the last piece of the trade centre and will never be again
    I don't see any way that this statement is true. It's not the last piece, since the box beam columns and retainer wall are in their original locations. Also part of the parking lot structures are being re-used over the path trains.

    Also, as was mentioned on this board, the entry from the E train to the WTC is still in place, and it is on the block of the Trade Center. In fact, by this standard, part of the old Trade Center is already in use!

    So the staircase is not the only original piece of the WTC still in place. It is just a non-descript piece that happens to be extremely inconvenient for rebuilding and difficult to preserve.

    It's great that we have buildings from the 1700's downtown to remember the past, so we can imagine how people lived. That stairwell will not in any way reconnect people in the future to what the WTC was like in the past. People who knew the WTC pre 9/11 can hardly remember how that stairwell fit into the old scheme. WHen the new scheme is in place, it will be even more randomly placed and meaningless.

  7. #3082

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    Are people going to demand that the escalator be re-installed (this lump shared both a stair and an escalator) as well?
    Ahhh, the WTC outdoor escalator! It was the only escalater outside at the WTC, and it carried so many people. It was such an important part of the WTC to millions. I would so love to take a ride on that escalator again, to get me from Vesey Street back up to the plaza without any physical effort. It was a beautiful escalator, too. Was it stainless steel?


  8. #3083
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
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    August 8, 2006

    Tunneling Under West Street to Link Downtown Passages

    By DAVID W. DUNLAP


    Work will begin in a day or two on a critical underground passage that will form part of an expansive pedestrian network in Lower Manhattan, stretching from the financial district almost to the Hudson River.

    The 100-foot-long passage under West Street-Route 9A will connect the Winter Garden in Battery Park City to a concourse planned under the new World Trade Center, leading to the future PATH terminal and transportation hub.

    Until Sept. 11, 2001, Battery Park City and the trade center were connected by the North Bridge, a walkway over Route 9A that was destroyed in the attack. Anthony R. Coscia, the chairman of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which will build the new passage, said it was a way of reconnecting the trade center to Lower Manhattan. The completed network will link subways, commuter trains and ferries.

    The trade center’s underground circulation system will be joined in turn to a new concourse under Dey Street — already being built — leading to the future Fulton Street Transit Center, which is to be finished in 2009.

    That means that by the end of 2009, travelers will be able to walk from the No. 2 or No. 3 subway platforms under William and John Streets (one block north of the Federal Reserve Bank) to 4 World Financial Center, just steps away from the river and the Port Authority’s new ferry landing — without ever meeting a crosswalk, a raindrop or a snowflake.

    More than 16,000 people an hour will stream through the Route 9A underpass at the peak of the morning commute, the authority estimates. That is roughly 6,000 more people than used the North Bridge.

    The first step in building the underpass will be to dig a trench about six feet wide and six feet deep to check to be sure that the utility lines crossing through the project area are exactly where they are supposed to be. A six-and-a-half-foot-wide interceptor sewer below Route 9A is perhaps the single biggest impediment to the underground passage, but there are also telecommunication lines and a four-foot water main to contend with.

    Because the passage will go through landfill, the next step will be to construct what is called a secant wall, a kind of underground, watertight palisade. A secant wall is made of interlocking, cylindrical concrete pilings; in this case 30 inches in diameter and about 70 feet deep. Every other piling will be reinforced by a steel H beam at its core.

    This work is expected to begin in late fall or early winter.

    Once that wall is completed, excavation can begin. A temporary bridge deck will be constructed to carry Route 9A traffic over the construction zone.
    After the excavation, the concrete shell of the passageway can be built. It will be 50 feet wide, with a ceiling that varies in height from 12 feet (squeezing under the interceptor sewer) to 17 feet.

    At its east end, it will join the two-level concourse running under a reconstructed Fulton Street to the transportation hub, designed by a partnership including the architect Santiago Calatrava.

    The north side of this concourse will be lined with shops. The south side will abut the footprint of 1 World Trade Center, the north tower, and so might play some kind of commemorative role, said Steven Plate, the director of priority capital programs at the Port Authority.

    At its west end, the underpass will lead to six escalators that will take pedestrians to street level. They will emerge in what is now an open space in front of the Winter Garden.

    It is unclear at the moment how the escalators will be housed. A small pavilion might be built to enclose them. Or the whole Winter Garden lobby might be extended roughly 80 feet eastward, so that it encompasses the escalators. A spokeswoman for Brookfield Properties, the principal owner of the World Financial Center and Winter Garden, would not comment.

    The underpass is expected be finished by the end of 2009. Its cost is to come out of the overall $2.2 billion budget for the transportation hub.
    Phoenix Constructors, a joint venture of Slattery Skanska, Bovis Lend Lease, Fluor Enterprises and Granite Construction, will build the underpass and the transportation hub.

    Further complicating matters, the New York State Department of Transportation will start rebuilding this part of Route 9A early next year, turning it from a six-lane roadway with no median to an eight-lane roadway with a landscaped median 25 to 30 feet wide and a broad sidewalk along the east edge of the memorial plaza.

    Richard J. Schmalz, the Route 9A project director for the transportation agency, said that work would be staged, with the state’s crews following the authority’s crews as they inch across the highway.

    “I call it construction choreography,” he said.

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  9. #3084

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    Very exciting....two things though:

    1) I certainly hope they implement some kind of airport type moving walkway technology as the distance of this tunnel is large. I imagine this tunnel will have to be quite wide seeing as thousands of employees of the northern part of the WFC will pour into the tunnel 5-ish. Add to that the PATH commuters and tourist there's going to be really A LOT of people in the underground concourse.

    2) This better not mean 24 month closures of West St, or Liberty or Vesey. The really huge minus about NY is that while we have all this great stuff happening for the future it causes so much trouble present-day that it's sometimes pointless to do it.

  10. #3085

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYatKNIGHT View Post
    August 8, 2006

    Tunneling Under West Street to Link Downtown Passages

    By DAVID W. DUNLAPCopyright 2006 The New York Times Company
    Wow, faster than I thought, even though they have just recently marked the ground in front of the Winter Garden, indicating its dimensions.

  11. #3086
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    How will the tunnel line up with the Winter Garden?

    Stairs / Escalators will rise up where?

  12. #3087
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    I don't know if there is another WTC thread addressing this somewhere in teh forum, but:

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/08....ap/index.html


    Another "no no no!!!! It WAS a bomb!!!!"

    My favorite line of BS:

    David Gabbard, an East Carolina education professor, acknowledges this isn't his field, but says "I'm smart enough to know ... that fire from airplanes can't melt steel."
    Um, then what is this whole "building code" thing about fire protection ratings.

    I guess there is no real reason to spray fire retardant coatings on all the steel buildings we do here at work?

    Some of these guys should really do some research before opening their mouths.

  13. #3088
    The Dude Abides
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    Manhattan: Two Trade Center Insurers Yield

    By CHARLES V. BAGLI

    Published: August 9, 2006

    The developer Larry A. Silverstein, at left, and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey won a victory in their campaign to rebuild ground zero when two insurers effectively agreed to pay more than $100 million for construction at the World Trade Center site. The two companies — Zurich American Insurance and Wausau — were among seven insurers sued in June by Mr. Silverstein and the Port Authority after they indicated that they might not pay full coverage because of a new rebuilding plan at ground zero. Zurich and Wausau agreed to withdraw their objections last weekend, after Gov. George E. Pataki, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Senator Charles E. Schumer and other politicians publicly and privately urged the insurers to pay what they owe and let the rebuilding go forward. The five remaining insurers, including Allianz, are obligated to provide a total of $1.36 billion, according to Silverstein Properties. “Clearly, the pressure from elected officials is paying off,” Janno Lieber, the World Trade Center project director for Silverstein Properties, said yesterday.

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  14. #3089

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/ny...in&oref=slogin

    Development Agency Is Nearly Finished, but Its Business Isn’t
    By DAVID W. DUNLAP
    Published: August 10, 2006

    THE Lower Manhattan Development Corporation may be winding up its affairs, but it hasn’t finished its business. Who will?

    After three years, the agency has yet to issue commercial design guidelines for the World Trade Center redevelopment, even though four of the future office towers are now being designed.

    It has also not yet awarded the $45 million in “community enhancement” grants promised by Gov. George E. Pataki and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg in May 2005.

    That — and the seemingly uncertain fate of the performing arts center — may be the greatest concern among downtown leaders, as they contemplate a future without the development corporation. Some fear that the community enhancement pot will be drawn down to pay for any unanticipated costs at the World Trade Center memorial.

    “The $45 million in community enhancement funds is very important to the community and something the community fought very hard for,” said Julie Menin, the chairwoman of Community Board 1.

    Asked for an example of a project that could benefit, she named the community center being built at Warren and West Streets as part of a residential project called 200 Chambers Street. The center is to be run by Manhattan Youth, which offers sports and cultural programs to children, mainly from TriBeCa, Battery Park City, the South Street Seaport and the financial district, where the residential population is growing.

    As a matter of fact, Manhattan Youth has already received a $400,000 grant from the development corporation for its cultural programs.

    But Bob Townley, the executive director, did not deny that the community center, scheduled to open next spring, could use a lot more money: $1.85 million, to be precise. Manhattan Youth will receive the raw space as a gift from New York City, he said, but is responsible for building out the interior. It has raised $6.85 million so far.

    “Lower Manhattan is the only community without a community center,” Mr. Townley said.

    Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff and Kevin M. Rampe, the chairman of the corporation, said the city would assume responsibility for administering the community enhancement program. And they both said the pot of money would almost surely be safe from other demands.

    “We obviously have a shared interest in preserving those funds,” Mr. Doctoroff said. “We thought it prudent — in the context of the memorial agreement — to make sure we had enough funds to get the memorial built. Our assumption is that we won’t have to use the $45 million for that.”

    To deal with unfinished business, Mr. Doctoroff said the city might create a new local development corporation for Lower Manhattan, under municipal control, or a new subsidiary of the city’s Economic Development Corporation. Or it might simply handle matters through existing agencies, he said.

    THE Regional Plan Association is frustrated that the community grants seem to be falling through the cracks. “It’s upsetting that the L.M.D.C. wasn’t able to distribute the funding while it had the staff, resources and capacity to do so,” said Petra Todorovich, a senior planner at the association. “The funding is so core to their mission and the need for funding is so great.”

    On the planning front, Amanda M. Burden, the chairwoman of the City Planning Commission and a director of the development corporation, said the design of the new trade center was moving ahead promisingly and collaboratively, even without formal guidelines, which are still being refined.

    One draft of the guidelines laid out a range of heights for the buildings, from a maximum of 900 feet for the shortest and southernmost tower, where the former Deutsche Bank building stands, to 1,776 feet for the Freedom Tower (Tower 1).

    Silverstein Properties, the developer of the three office buildings along Greenwich Street, has commissioned Foster & Partners of London to design Tower 2, the Richard Rogers Partnership of London to design Tower 3 and Maki & Associates of Tokyo to design Tower 4. Teams from all three firms are working together at 7 World Trade Center.

    “We’re incredibly fortunate that Towers 2, 3 and 4 have three of the greatest architects in the world,” Ms. Burden said. “It appears that the principles of the guidelines are being embraced by the architects and overseen very diligently by Silverstein.”

    That includes the notion, central to the original master plan by Studio Daniel Libeskind, that the towers be arranged in an ascending spiral, each taller than the one immediately to its south, as they wrap around the memorial plaza.

    Although the draft called for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the development corporation to administer the guidelines, Ms. Burden said, “The city believes strongly that it must be involved in the site’s design moving forward.”

    After all, she added: “The site is located within the five boroughs. And Lower Manhattan is a priority for this administration.”

    ---

    So a limit of 900 feet at Tower 5. Higher than I thought frankly. I would take an additional 800-900 foot tower there, ideally by another starchitect.

  15. #3090
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    This is an exerpt from a Voice of America interview with Larry Silverstein on the 5th anniversary of the attacks:

    "There are many people who believed that we should build one story houses after the attack. I was not one of them. Nor were New Yorkers. The idea of a tall building didn't emanate from me… it emanated from the desire of New Yorkers at the Javits Center who voted overwhelmingly that Ground Zero should have an iconic high rise building."

    http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-08-10-voa46.cfm

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