View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #3106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vengineer View Post
    Sweet news. Lucky 7.
    Note how 7 is also the number of 7 WTC, headliner of rebuilding progress.

  2. #3107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    ^They're places where I can buy back my stolen watch...that's what's wrong with them.

    As long as it was a classy watch and a high end pawn shop, perhaps it's OK.

  3. #3108

    Default

    ^haha, true

    perhaps that's one business idea we haven't though off...just imagine walking into a shop and being greeted by a pretty female clerk asking: "Good afternoon, Sir, welcome to Rico's Pawn Shop, may I take your coat?"




    So September 7th it is, can't wait. (not another dissapointment I hope)

  4. #3109

    Default Downtown Express: Survivors Staircase 1

    Preserving the stairway is a path to spiraling costs

    By David Stanke
    The latest World Trade Center artifact under consideration is the “Survivors’ Stairway” also known as the Vesey St. staircase. If the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. concede to protect this artifact, they will subject the W.T.C. to ongoing cost overruns and construction delays. The only responsible treatment of this 175-ton, 1,100-square-foot mass of crumbling concrete is to preserve the few remaining pieces of original granite and to demolish the remaining concrete so that rebuilding can continue.
    This staircase poses an endless stream of problems. It stands in what will be the center of the 2 W.T.C. site, where Lord Norman Foster is designing a building. The eastern bathtub beneath it must be excavated seven stories below the staircase. The size, composition and condition of the staircase make it nearly impossible to store in place or to relocate intact. It cannot be disassembled and reconstructed.
    And still, the Port Authority has irresponsibly engaged in a discussion of optional treatments without any estimate of costs, delays or feasibility. This approach led to a $1 billion memorial and years of inaction at the W.T.C. The Port should know better. They are hopelessly raising people’s expectations.
    As an “artifact,” the Vesey St. staircase fails tests of historic significance on every level. Before 9/11, it was an architecturally insignificant staircase from the W.T.C. plaza to Vesey St. It was not part of the Twin Towers, nor was it a target of the attacks. It is no longer recognizable from what it once was. Its appearance is the result of W.T.C. deconstruction, not the attacks of 9/11. Even Daniel Libeskind, who found a symbol in everything, looked past this mound. And still, preservationists demand protection with no consideration of costs.
    Some claim that a uniquely unified voice supports this staircase. In L.M.D.C./P.A. sponsored meetings on W.T.C. historic preservation, every preservation organization supported preservation of the slurry wall. Now, they want the cement slabs below the W.T.C. towers preserved so that people can have a tactile experience with it, even “kiss it.” Repetitive, emotionally manipulative statements dominate discussions that have lost rational underpinnings.
    Responses to this column will undoubtedly mention that the staircase is 11th on the National Trust’s list of most endangered places. To place this in context, “notable” places with higher ranking include such universal, cultural cornerstones as Doo Wop Motels; Kenilworth, Illinois; and the Kootenai Lodge. For the cost of preserving one battered piece of concrete, you could save several of the higher ranked places. No doubt, the Historic Trust figured out that the W.T.C. is a great publicity tool.
    The emotional importance attributed to the artifact is contrived. It became the “Survivors’ Stairway” years after 9/11 when a group of people formed the Survivors Network to establish their connection to 9/11. Early discussions of this group were high minded: bring people together to share experience, find meaning in the disaster, promote advancement of the human condition, and forge consensus on W.T.C. development. But in the end, these were difficult objectives. Instead, as one of its members acknowledged to me, the Survivors Network “drank the Kool-Aid ” of W.T.C. historic preservation.
    For those seeking a symbol of survival, there is “Double Check,” a bronze statue of a businessman looking into his briefcase. It sat on a bench in the Liberty Street Plaza off Broadway on the morning of 9/11. A photograph of it covered in debris made this statue immediately recognizable to millions. Now it sits in the restored park. Look closely to see marks of 9/11 debris on his head and back. His suit is permanently embedded with the grain of the W.T.C. dust that covered so many of us. But this item was not chosen as the survivors’ symbol because it is off the W.T.C. site. Four years with a blank slate at the W.T.C. have driven people to seek meaning in random objects, just as the eye begins to see spots when trained on a blank piece of paper.
    I, along with tens of thousands of others, am a survivor of the W.T.C. attacks. I state this simply as fact as someone whose home across the street was damaged Sept. 11. Survival is hardly a transcendent value. Antelope run from lions. Ants run from shoes. On 9/11, survival was not an act of bravery, it was an inseparable mix of desperation and luck, driven by instinct. I deserve no recognition. Life is survival’s reward.
    The P.A. moved the most meaningful artifacts to a hangar at Kennedy Airport within a year of 9/11/01 – the massive, twisted columns of the towers, smashed emergency vehicles, and PATH station turnstiles that were last used by survivors escaping the disaster. The stuff left on site is already of second or third tier in importance. The staircase was partially demolished four years ago and no one cared. Community Board 1 has resolved that this staircase should not further delay reconstruction. The resources for both Downtown rebuilding and the W.T.C. memorial are short. The harsh light of this reality demands a much simpler treatment for these stairs.
    David Stanke, who lives and writes Downtown, is a consulting party to the Section 106 World Trade Center historic preservation process. His email is Davestanke@ebond.com.
    Last edited by davestanke; August 16th, 2006 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Change Text Size

  5. #3110

    Default Downtown Express: Survivors Staircase 2

    Stairway for survivors or delay?
    By Ronda Kaysen
    The stairs that once connected the World Trade Center plaza to Vesey St. led hundreds of survivors to safety on 9/11 and have become a symbol of soaring, airy hope. However, some see those same steps as an obstruction to the rebuilding of the site, which means they may not survive much longer.
    For the thousands of people who worked in the Twin Towers, elevators were their daily mode of transport, carrying workers up and down the 110-story towers. Yet on Sept. 11, 2001, stairs became the sole means of escape. As hundreds of people made their way out of the crumbling towers, the stairs leading from the elevated Austin J. Tobin Plaza to street level were the final steps to safety.
    “There was no other way for me to get out of there. The plaza had collapsed in front of me,” said Tom Canavan, who believes he might have been the last survivor to descend those steps.
    Canavan’s escape was narrow. Tower 2 shattered above him, burying him briefly. When he wrestled free from the rubble, he navigated a plaza that had become an impassable mess of wreckage and chaos. The Vesey St. staircase was his only remaining option. Moments after he reached the street below, Tower 1, where he had worked on the 47th floor, crumbled in a rain of fury.
    Five years later, the 64-ft. tall Vesey St. staircase still stands as the only above-grade remnant of the original World Trade Center. A craggy, broken reminder of that day, it has been dubbed the “Survivors’ Stairway.”
    “As an artifact, [the staircase] represents the time before the World Trade Center was attacked; it provides a link to that period of time as well as to the attacks themselves,” said Roberta Lane, an attorney for the National Trust for Historic Preservation, which declared the staircase one of the 11 most endangered sites in the United States. “We’re not saying it’s necessarily a miracle that this stayed; however, it’s there now and there really isn’t anything else that is there now that’s above ground.”
    With “World Trade Center,” an Oliver Stone film about two Port Authority officers rescued from the rubble, opening this week, the survivors’ stories have garnered newfound attention. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, will decide the staircase’s fate this fall.
    The stairs remain by luck. After 9/11, they provided work crews access to the pile and the damaged 1/9 subway tunnel below. For some residents eager to see their neighborhood rebuilt, the stairs have come to symbolize not steps to freedom, but yet another barrier to the rebuilding of their neighborhood.
    “We’ve had enough delays. We’re five years down the road and only now construction has just started,” said Community Board 1 member Bill Love. “I don’t see that most of that structure is worth preserving… It’s really only there by happenstance at this point.”
    The stairs will likely complicate the rebuilding effort. Preliminary work has already begun on the eastern bathtub, which will run directly underneath the 175-ton staircase. Towers 2, 3 and 4 are all dependent on a new eastern bathtub, and building the tub around the stairs could prove costly and dangerous for work crews.
    The stairs also stand squarely in the footprint of the new Tower 2. If developer Larry Silverstein designs the new tower to accommodate the relic, it could compromise the 130,000 sq. ft. of retail space planned for the tower.
    Preservationists “don’t think about or care about the potential delays to construction, the potential further costs,” said Love. Incorporating the stairs into the new tower “would knock out the ground level retail… I just think it’s very irresponsible.”
    The bulk of the retail at the new Trade Center will be in Towers 3 and 4 along Church St., and both those towers will rise before Tower 2. However, for residents eager to see shops return to their neighborhood, 130,000 sq. ft. is a significant space. Lord Norman Foster, a world-class architect known for iconic, modern designs, will design Tower 2, the final Church St. tower planned for the 16-acre site.
    The stairs are visible from the Vesey St. pedestrian walkway. They look like an ancient relic, with coarse, battered steps, ground down to uneven, gnarled ridges. In stark contrast, the upper steps are still slick, granite stairs as they were on Sept. 10. The stairway ends abruptly, cut off with rusted cables protruding through the concrete masonry, reaching out to a plaza that no longer exists.
    The stairway “is symbolic of anyone who was touched by 9/11,” said Patty Clark, a Port Authority employee who escaped from her offices on the 65th floor of Tower 1, eventually making her way down the Vesey St. staircase. “It’s damaged. We’re all somewhat damaged.”
    Stairs defined Clark’s escape. As she descended the endless flights, she was periodically redirected to other staircases. On the 23rd floor, she ran into a co-worker, Kayla Berceron, who had her BlackBerry and was fully aware of what was transpiring outside. The two traveled the rest of their way together. When they reached the 11th floor, the South Tower collapsed. “There was a rumbling sound followed by shaking, the shaking was just a violent shaking that appeared worse than the initial hit,” Clark recalled. “Our staircase started twisting and then our lights went out. We kind of thought it was over.”
    But it wasn’t over. The lights flickered and came back on and Clark continued her descent. When Clark and Berceron reached the bottom, the North Tower’s water main burst. “One hundred and ten stories of water was washing down,” said Clark. “That part was fairly treacherous.”
    When they reached the plaza, a tangled mess of cables and concrete, the two found protection beneath the eaves to Tower 6, eventually making their final descent down the Vesey St. stairs.
    “Your whole mentality was you just flee, you’re not going to go back towards that thing you were just in. Going towards the plaza, towards the center, that clearly wasn’t an option. That was even more treacherous than where we were,” said Clark. In terms of her escape, the Vesey stairway “is a critical piece. It’s what got me off of the plaza.”
    The stairs have ignited something of a movement within the survivor community. The W.T.C. Survivors’ Network, a loose affiliation of survivors, first drew attention to the staircase two years ago, bringing the issue to the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which has been overseeing the historic preservation issues regarding the site. The organization also launched a Web site, www.Savethestairway.org, organized a letter writing campaign and has worked with preservationists to preserve the stairs.
    “It’s the last remaining piece of the World Trade Center complex that’s standing above ground. Think about what that means. It’s the last remaining piece. If it’s gone, it’s gone forever,” said Richard Zimbler, a Survivors’ Network organizer who can see the staircase from his Independence Plaza North apartment in Tribeca.
    The Port and the L.M.D.C. have been reviewing various remedies for the staircase, including dismantling it and moving it piecemeal in order to rebuild the eastern bathtub. Community Board 1, which represents the district, overwhelmingly supported a resolution supporting any effort that would speed the rebuilding effort — including disassembling the staircase and moving it off of the site entirely.
    Preserving the stairway at its present location would pose a serious design challenge, and Silverstein has not indicated whether he’d be willing to incorporate it into his new tower.
    “We would like to see the staircase preserved and believe that it can be,” Dara McQuillan, a Silverstein spokesperson, said in a statement. “There are several options as to where the staircase may ultimately go on the site, all of which should be studied with input from the community.”
    Advocates concede that the stairs may need to be moved temporarily to aid construction. “We certainly don’t want lives put at risk to preserve an inanimate object,” said Zimbler. But all would like to see the staircase returned to the 16 acres, be it in the memorial museum or elsewhere on the site.
    “Some people say it’s only stone or rock. But what’s a tombstone?” said Canavan, who fled Tower 1 with a score of coworkers, three of whom died in front of him. “It’s the last remaining piece. For whatever reason it was saved… To go through all that destruction and still stand, it deserves a better fate than that. They built a whole city around the Alamo. They can build around this.”
    Ronda@DowntownExpress.com

  6. #3111

    Default Downtown Express on Memorial Costs

    Stop memorial costbleeding and don’t shortchange Downtown

    As we reported last week, $45 million of federal money the governor and mayor promised for Lower Manhattan “community enhancement” last year appears to have disappeared and coincidence or not, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation is finalizing an agreement to spend yet another $45 million if there are cost overruns on the billion-dollar World Trade Center memorial. Even if the enhancement money is found and is spent on community projects, the L.M.D.C. should not further escalate the enormous public investment in the memorial.
    In a world where government project cost overruns are routine, setting up a rainy day fund encourages hurricanes.
    There should be a large public investment in the memorial and it will far surpass half a billion dollars. The L.M.D.C. is already paying $250 million for the memorial and museum, the Port Authority $150 million for underground infrastructure, New York State $80 million for the memorial visitor and education center, and the Federal Transit Administration $28 million for the memorial’s sidewalks. In addition, the L.M.D.C. is spending at least $266 million to buy the contaminated former Deutsche Bank building and an adjacent lot and to take the building down safely, and this land is expected to be traded to the Port in exchange for the memorial land.
    Although this will be the most expensive memorial ever built by far, we acknowledge that such comparisons are not fair. The Sept. 11 attack gave us a seven-story hole in the ground that would be expensive to build back up to street level even without a memorial.
    Only one part of the memorial cost-overrun formula makes sense. The Port, which is building the memorial, would have to cover the first $25 million over the Sciame-inspired $510 million memorial-museum budget. This gives the New York-New Jersey authority incentive to keep costs down.
    The World Trade Center Memorial Foundation was able to raise $131 million in private donations even before it began a national ad campaign. It should be responsible for keeping the project within budget or if need be, raising more money to cover cost overruns.
    With the possible shift of the $45 million into a memorial reserve fund, we’re left with the sinking feeling that the Lower Manhattan community is being made to bear more of the burden of memorial budget recklessness without the power to influence the process. Those with the power to guide the memorial’s development – the Port and the Memorial Foundation, should be responsible and take the consequences if they aren’t.
    The L.M.D.C. needs to protect the $45 million community enhancement fund while they still have the mandate to do so and to create a mechanism to allocate it to its original purpose. There are huge issues confronting the Lower Manhattan community where these funds could logically be directed. None may be more important to the long term viability of the area than education; i.e., where are the kids in Downtown’s demographic boom going to find classroom seats? Another school is clearly needed beyond Beekman and the P.S. 234 annex.
    Even though the L.M.D.C. is closing shop, its directors need to show strong leadership on these types of final issues.

  7. #3112

    Default History channel ran the WTC 9/11 special tonight

    amusing to see Liebskind interviewed as the designer of the WTC complex in retrospect

    Can't believe it's been 5 years and that the WTC was really a young building.

  8. #3113

    Default Parade Magazine

    Intelligence Report®

    Should These Stairs Be Saved?

    By Lyric Wallwork Winik
    Published: August 20, 2006

    Every day, from his office window, Tom Grassi catches a glimpse of the stairs. They come from nothing and lead to nothing. On top, their granite treads still gleam, but the bottom has been stripped bare. They are a relic of what once was the World Trade Center. Indeed, these plaza stairs are all that is left above ground from those buildings.

    Grassi worked on the 82nd floor of Tower One. On 9/11, he descended—at first in light and then in darkness, smoke and dust. He moved slowly so the injured could be carried down and later so the firefighters could walk up. He reached the plaza outside, all but destroyed from the rubble of Tower Two, and walked down those stairs. Within 10 minutes, Tower One thundered down.

    Five years later, a bitter fight is raging over the stairs, which have been dubbed the “Survivors’ Staircase” and recently were named one of America’s 11 most endangered landmarks by the National Trust for Historic Preservation. On one side are 9/11 survivors and historic preservationists; on the other are many of the 10,000 residents of Battery Park City, which abuts the site. At issue is whether the stairs deserve to be saved.

    Bill Love has lived in Battery Park City for 13 years. He boarded a subway under the Twin Towers minutes before the first plane hit. Today, he sits on a local community board and can see the area from his office. “People are very frustrated that we’re approaching the fifth anniversary and the site is only beginning to be rebuilt,” Love says. “They want the commercial and retail activity back.” Many residents see protecting the stairs as just another delay. “These stairs are of zero historic significance,” says John Dellaportas, head of the West Street Coalition, a local citizens group. He calls them “one last piece of debris.” As for the preservationists, he says, “If they want these stairs, they can put them in their own front yards.”

    To Tom Canavan, they’re more than “debris.” When Tower Two fell, he was buried in rubble. Canavan thought he was dead. Then he tasted dust and pictured his pregnant wife and his son. He began to dig on his belly through concrete, steel and bodies toward a shaft of light. When he reached the plaza, he says, “it was like being in a blizzard—smoke and papers were everywhere.” Then he saw two Port Authority workers atop those stairs. He was one of the last to descend safely to the street below.

    “Those stairs remind us that we made it,” says 9/11 survivor Kayla Bergeron. She had assumed they were destroyed with the Twin Towers. Then one day, passing the site, “I stopped in my tracks: I saw our stairs.”

    Peg Breen, president of the New York Landmarks Conservancy, calls the staircase “a permanent witness to the devastation of that day” and believes it should stand in place. But John Dellaportas says, “We are just trying to get on with our lives.” Adds Bill Love, “We’re not opposed to considering having the stairs moved elsewhere. Parts may be worth preserving, but we’re against putting the entire structure in any location that interferes with rebuilding the site and pedestrian traffic.”

    The final decision rests with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Right now, a tower is slated to be built where the stairs—which are 64 feet long and weigh 350,000 pounds—stand. Tom Grassi would like them to be incorporated into the new building. He likens the site to Pearl Harbor, where the U.S.S. Arizona can still be seen in its watery grave. Tom Canavan thinks of Gettysburg. “We saved thousands of acres of land from that epic battle,” he says. “What makes this place less significant?” Adds Kayla Bergeron: “We are building a monument to those who died on 9/11. This is the monument to the people who survived.”

    To learn more about preserving the staircase, visit nationaltrust.org/wtc

    http://parade.com/articles/editions/...ligence_Report

  9. #3114

    Default

    NY Sun

    Endless Land Debacle

    By EDWARD GLAESER
    August 16, 2006

    In the five years since the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, America has built more than 6 million homes. Yet the main World Trade Center site remains empty. The memorial is projected to be completed in 2009 and the Freedom Tower is projected to be completed in 2011.

    Why does it take a decade to rebuild? The Empire State Building was, after all, built in 419 days. The Manhattan construction industry hasn't evaporated since then. Since 9/11, 30,000 new units have been permitted in Manhattan. Silverstein Properties has rebuilt the 52-story 7 World Trade Center tower, which escaped the World Trade Center master plan.

    The years of delay do not reflect standard issue governmental incompetence. The finest architectural minds and the best civic leaders in the world have worked on this project. The project doesn't lack funding. The empty lot certainly doesn't reflect lack of passion for rebuilding lower Manhattan.

    The empty lot stands instead as an indictment of the consensus decision-making that has become far too common in projects throughout the country. When the Empire State Building was built, decisions were made by General Motors tycoon, John Raskob, who may have also asked the opinion of Governor Al Smith, the titular leader of the project. With the World Trade Center, thousands of people think they have a right to control the project, and insert their own aesthetic vision or pet project. The Empire State Building was built quickly because it had a determined developer operating within a clear set of rules. The World Trade Center rebuilding has been slow because no one is really in control.

    A core insight of economics is that poorly defined property rights — situations where no one has clear control — can be wildly inefficient. Well-defined property rights allow owners to go ahead and make what they think is the best use of their property. Poorly defined property rights, when nobody knows who is in control, leads to years of fighting — in and out of the courts — about what should happen.The World Trade Center is a case study of ill-defined property rights. Silverstein properties may own the land, but they've been fighting their insurers. The governor, the mayor, the master planner, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, and activists of all stripes all have some ill-defined ability to control the tower. The result has been years and years of delay.

    The World Trade Center delays are the culmination of a 40 year process where we have replaced traditional property rights with a murky consensual system where everyone gets to speak their piece on every public and private project. Over the last 40 years, community activists, starting with Jane Jacobs's opposition to Robert Moses, have learned how to halt both private and public projects. A particularly graphic example is the Battle of Carnegie Hill, where Woody Allen and Kevin Kline led a fight to eliminate a developers' right to build a 17-story building in their neighborhood.

    The increasing ability of community activists to stop projects has led to a dramatic reduction in the supply of new units and a decline in the height of new residential buildings in Manhattan.

    Less supply has meant higher and higher prices. Woody Allen and Kevin Kline may have thought that they were fighting for proportion in their neighborhood, but they were also doing their own little bit to make Manhattan less affordable to middle class residents.

    What does this mean for the World Trade Center site? My view of Ground Zero is the same as Abraham Lincoln's view of Gettysburg. The firefighters and policemen who died to save others "consecrated it, far above our poor powers to add or detract." There is a home-made memorial in a firehouse window on East 67th street, and I don't believe that anything that will be built can have the same impact on me as those few pictures, drawings, and candles. Endless debate over design just elevates aesthetics at the expense of the real heroes of September 11.

    The best response that New York can make to the attack is for new workers to come to lower Manhattan, to replace some of the energy and brilliance that was lost. Silverstein Properties has every incentive to ensure — without the slightest government intervention — that the new buildings are as economically vibrant as possible. Private development, not planning by consensus, is a better path to a vibrant downtown. New York certainly has the courage to respond to terrorism, but our response seems to have gotten bogged down in an endless land use debate.

    Mr. Glaeser is the Glimp Professor of Economics at Harvard, director of the Taubman Center for State and Local Government, and a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

    ____________________________________________

    Daily News

    WTC construction gets rolling

    BY PAUL D. COLFORD




    E.E. Cruz construction crews prepare to build the foundation for the World Trade Center Memorial.


    Big rigs began another big dig yesterday at Ground Zero.

    Heavy equipment was rolled down into The Pit by E.E. Cruz & Co. as the New Jersey contractor prepared to build the foundation for the World Trade Center Memorial. By mid-morning, a pair of loaders and an excavator on treads were crisscrossing the southwest corner of the WTC site in a beep-beeping ballet.

    The machines lifted trailer-length pieces of steel off an 18-wheeler and pushed debris to the sideline. Mammoth timbers were snapped in half by the long-clawed excavator to be hauled away.


    "All our people are very ecstatic that they're going to be in on this project," Edward Cruz, president of E.E. Cruz, told the Daily News.

    Recalling that the company provided equipment and other services during the post-9/11 cleanup of the site, Cruz added, "It's great to be back to make something positive."

    The digging of the foundation for the Freedom Tower, the 1,776-foot office tower planned just north of the memorial site, began in April and will include occasional rock-loosening blasts.

    Yesterday's work on the memorial kicked off a $17 million phase of construction, following several weeks of site preparation begun on March 13.

    With high-powered drills and more blasting, Cruz hardhats will excavate a series of cubes, as deep as 10 feet in Ground Zero's rocky floor, in which the memorial's support structure will be set.

    Plans call for the WTC Memorial and the Memorial Museum, recently scaled back to meet a $500 million budget, to be completed for an opening on Sept. 11, 2009.

    Two sunken pools will mark where the twin towers stood. The complex will also feature a street-level plaza and underground exhibition halls.

    The WTC Memorial Foundation still must raise another $170 million for the project.

    Originally published on August 16, 2006

  10. #3115
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    Private development, not planning by consensus, is a better path to a vibrant downtown. New York certainly has the courage to respond to terrorism, but our response seems to have gotten bogged down in an endless land use debate.
    I quite agree. There is such a thing as too socially conscience.

  11. #3116
    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ld876 View Post
    I quite agree. There is such a thing as too socially conscience.
    I'd normally totally agree, and I do to a certain extent but my worst nightmare is a group of 900 ft. Kostas Kondylis-designed residential towers as our new World Trade Center.

    While I'm sure if WTC was given over to a group of developers we'd still see some starchitects show up, one can't but wonder if Kostas might be able to weasle his way in

  12. #3117

    Default Social Conscience or special Interest

    The problem isn't social needs being reflected in development. The problem is the special interest activists speak as if they were the voice of the public good. The public good is more complex than they understand, and even if they understand aspects of it, their motivations are more often their own best interests.

    The Woody Allen piece is a perfect example. They want low buildings to keep their neighborhood exclusive. But done in agregate across the city, and it simply creates a shortage in supply of new housing and high real estate prices.

    Most activists have a very narrow view of the public good. And they magically benefit the most when their view of the "public good" wins.

  13. #3118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by macreator View Post
    I'd normally totally agree, and I do to a certain extent but my worst nightmare is a group of 900 ft. Kostas Kondylis-designed residential towers as our new World Trade Center.

    While I'm sure if WTC was given over to a group of developers we'd still see some starchitects show up, one can't but wonder if Kostas might be able to weasle his way in
    Maybe for Tower 5, but I wouldn't count on it, Kostas is almost exclusively residential.

  14. #3119

    Default The Down Side Of Jane Jacobs

    The World Trade Center delays are the culmination of a 40 year process where we have replaced traditional property rights with a murky consensual system where everyone gets to speak their piece on every public and private project. Over the last 40 years, community activists, starting with Jane Jacobs's opposition to Robert Moses, have learned how to halt both private and public projects.

    The increasing ability of community activists to stop projects has led to a dramatic reduction in the supply of new units and a decline in the height of new residential buildings in Manhattan.
    It had to be said.

  15. #3120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    It had to be said.
    Amen.

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