View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #3181

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    In the end, yes, they officially count. So officially we will be completing 2 1,000 footers in the next couple of years.

    2 invisible 1,000 footers from many angles. Sad.

  2. #3182
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    Hmmm. 'To each his own' does count to me. Spires may count officially, but 'official' is still an arbitrary decision by a group of people that made a decision one way or the other. I like spires too, but for me it is occupied space that sets the height. No matter the size, if it is a part of a building to which a person can ascend, occupy, and remain indefinitely with the presence of climate control, then that is the defacto height.

  3. #3183

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    To me, its the total height of man made structure which includes spires and antennas. There's no denying there's something in the air which wasn't there until it was built, no matter how thin.

  4. #3184

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    NYC is the spire capital. Why are spires so popular here? Its a hassle to get a buildings roof height over 1,000'.

  5. #3185
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS085 View Post

    NYC is the spire capital. Why are spires so popular here?
    Since 1778 the New York State Motto has been:
    "EXCELSIOR"

    Latin for:
    "EVER UPWARD"
    It's emblazoned on the NY State FLAG:



    And danged if that ain't a "spire" that Justice is holding ^^^ in her right hand ...


    You can PRINT OUT this one and color it yourself ...


  6. #3186

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    Justice is holding the sword of freedom which has inspired the spire of the Freedom Tower. Because FT will sign tenants while blindfolded and their worth will be measured using the scale of justice which will be located in the lobby.


  7. #3187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    Well if counting the spire, 80 South Street is 1,123 feet tall. As long as the building has a website up and Sciame is located in the building I'll consider it proposed.
    People buy webnames and space for years at once. That site will keep crawling along until the owners refuse to renew. It's dead.

  8. #3188

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    Just 3 more days. I'm more excited over thursday's new unveilings than I was at any point during this WTC process. Especially knowing they will actually get built. Just brace yourselves for the inevitable "too tall and too much space" crown. Lucky for us there's only 2 weeks from then until the Port Authority finalizes the agreement. Then, Silverstein will bulldozer the opposition if he must to get these towers built. Just look at 7 WTC if there are any doubts.

    Also of note, the old display at the Wintergarden is down. The sign says "new display" coming soon. That can only mean they plan to have the new designs up by this weekend, in time for the 9/11 anniversary.

    Five years later, and we finally get to see what the new WTC will look like.

  9. #3189

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    It's going to be sweet.

  10. #3190
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    New Goldberger rant about WTC.

    http://www.newyorker.com/critics/con...19crsk_skyline

    Zero Summary
    by Paul Goldberger
    Issue of 2006-09-11
    Posted 2006-09-04
    On July 4, 2004, at a ceremony to mark the start of construction on the Freedom Tower, the seventeen-hundred-and-seventy-six-foot skyscraper intended as the centerpiece of the effort to rebuild Ground Zero, Governor George Pataki said, “How badly our enemies underestimated the power and endurance of freedom. In less than three years, we have more than just plans on paper—we place here today the cornerstone, the foundation of a new tower.” But for two years after the ceremony the cornerstone was all there was to the Freedom Tower. And, as for “plans on paper,” at the time the cornerstone was laid, neither the Governor nor anyone else even had the final plans for the building.
    The Freedom Tower finally began to rise a few months ago, following a design by the architectural firm of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill that, like almost everything related to Ground Zero, has been drastically revised. Most of the things planned for the sixteen acres at Ground Zero—including a memorial, a set of cultural buildings, a transportation center, several office buildings, and a shopping center—have suffered countless troubles, and are certain not to go up in the forms originally planned. The master plan by Daniel Libeskind, selected amid great fanfare in 2003, has been compromised to the point of extinction. The memorial by Michael Arad and Peter Walker, a strong design that challenged the master plan head-on, has, in its turn, been dogged by a host of objections—from family members, who didn’t like how the names of the dead would be displayed; from security experts, who today are the silent partners of every architect doing major civic or corporate work; and from public officials worried about the cost.
    Still, Arad and Walker’s design remains at least partially intact. The cultural buildings—a museum by the Norwegian firm Snohetta and a performing-arts building by Frank Gehry—have fared far worse, and may never get built at all. Their nemesis hasn’t been cost or security but the ability of a highly vocal group of victims’ families to force political decisions. The group objected to the fact that the cultural component of Ground Zero was to include the Drawing Center, a respected arts institution that had occasionally shown works that some felt were less than patriotic, and the International Freedom Center, a new venture that planned to tell the story of struggles for liberty in other cultures and other periods, an idea that some objected would dilute the message of the Ground Zero memorial. They urged the Governor to send the Freedom Center and the Drawing Center packing, and the Governor, oblivious of the irony of censoring cultural institutions on a site intended as a monument to freedom, agreed. The Drawing Center has had to look for other quarters, and the Freedom Center has decided to go out of business altogether. Meanwhile, security experts determined that the Freedom Tower should be set atop a base of solid concrete nearly two hundred feet high. It may, sadly, be a necessary precaution, but nineteen nearly windowless stories in a building called the Freedom Tower is hardly a good advertisement for the virtues of an open society.


    The Ground Zero mess is far too complex to be blamed on any one person, but Governor Pataki’s trademark blend of high-flown language and cool expedience certainly set the tone. (Even his cornerstone-laying was a sham: no construction was scheduled to begin, but the Governor wanted to impress his fellow-Republicans, who were soon to arrive in New York for their Convention.) After 9/11, the Governor saw a rebuilt World Trade Center site as his legacy, and perhaps even his ticket to the White House. He quickly decided that the most convenient route would be to allow the Port Authority, which built the World Trade Center, and the developer Larry Silverstein, who had the leasehold on it, to rebuild more or less what they had lost, with a few extras, such as a memorial. Pataki never really considered starting from scratch and figuring out what completely new uses the site could be put to. In the forty years since work first began on the World Trade Center, the area around it has been transformed from a dull office district to a vibrant, mixed-use residential neighborhood. But no consideration was given to putting housing at Ground Zero, even though it is what lower Manhattan needs most these days, or to any primary use other than office space, even though the market for it in lower Manhattan is soft.
    Not only was this a dismal failure of imagination; even judged from a standpoint of pragmatic self-interest, Pataki’s plan has started to look like a miscalculation. Having allowed Silverstein and the Port Authority to build so much office space in a location where few companies seem eager to be, Pataki has had to come up with a way of helping them fill it. In June, he announced that the state of New York would commit to renting between half a million and a million square feet of office space in the building. You don’t have to know too much New York history to remember another time when a Republican governor of New York was determined to put an immense skyscraper on this piece of land, and said that, if there were not enough commercial tenants, he would fill it with state offices. Forty years seem not to have got us beyond the folly of Nelson Rockefeller and the building of the original World Trade Center. And they haven’t freed us from the use of sanctimonious rhetoric to cover up what, ultimately, has turned out to be a lot more like a typical New York real-estate saga than anything else.


    Amid all the squabbles and revisions, it’s unsurprising that so many people who once cared passionately about Ground Zero have simply lost track of the developments there and have stopped caring. This summer, the success of the first movies about 9/11, and acclaim for a clutch of important novels dealing with the subject, showed that the public is still hungry to make sense of the tragedy and what it means for America. But they are no longer looking to architects, contractors, and developers for answers. By the end of the day on September 11, 2001, it was clear that the terrorists’ act had enormous symbolic power in the eyes of the world, and, in the months that followed, a consensus arose that whatever happened at Ground Zero should make a powerful symbolic statement of our own—of the values that America, and New York, stand for. Five years after the terrorist attacks, the saddest thing about all the many absurdities surrounding the rebuilding—the personal wrangles and group rivalries that have obscured any sense of commonality, the pious statements masking an utter lack of conviction, the maxed-out budgets and cut corners—is that they may say a lot more about us than we’d like to think.
    While I think that anyone who thinks Lincoln Center is crap architecture is an idiot and has absolutely no business being a critic, it doesn't mean he can't have a couple good points.

  11. #3191
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Nail on the Head:

    Five years after the terrorist attacks, the saddest thing about all the many absurdities surrounding the rebuilding — the personal wrangles and group rivalries that have obscured any sense of commonality, the pious statements masking an utter lack of conviction, the maxed-out budgets and cut corners — is that they may say a lot more about us than we’d like to think.

  12. #3192

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    Just a cliche. The final plan, while far from perfect, is far better than either Goldberger's beloved Libeskind plan, or the pathetic alternatives (low-rise apartment buildings and off-broadway theaters) that Goldberger has in mind. The reason we have lost five years is because the bureaucrats wasted too much time listening to the Paul Goldbergers of the world.

  13. #3193
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    I've been mulling this possibility for a couple of weeks, but what are the chances that the perfroming arts center gets turned into and office building? I'm not expecting another tower, but a low to midrise.

  14. #3194

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    Im wondering what's happened to the rebuilding of the World Trade Center Hotel?

  15. #3195
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    Quote Originally Posted by STR View Post

    ... what are the chances that the perfroming arts center gets turned into and office building? I'm not expecting another tower, but a low to midrise.
    That would suck.

    Not just for the loss of the PAC and the arts in general at the WTC site (although with the way Pataki has dragged some organizations through the mud I wonder what we'd end up with) but because a tower between 1WTC + 2WTC would not be good design-wise for either of those towers or for the site as a whole.

    Towers need some air between them (this is one of my big aarguements with 12 Barclay -- it eats the air around the Woolworth). If you stack towers like fence posts side by side by side by side it just isn't the same.

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