View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #3271
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    Quote Originally Posted by soccerUSA View Post
    I think that these towers are very good for New York, but there is a negative thing that a few people has observed : the number of floors. The Freedom Tower is high over 400 meters at roof but it has only 82 floors, the tower 2 is high almost 400m and has only 78m , the tower 3 is high 352m at roof and has only 71 fllors and the tower 4 has only 61 floors ( 288 m ).
    Burj Dubai will have between 162 and 189 floors and the same Empire State Building has 102 floors and the same height of the future Tower 2.
    Is it possible that there will be more floors at least in the Frredom Tower ( 100 + floors ) and in the Tower 2 ( 90 + floors ) ?
    No, there won't be more floors added. The comparisons you use are either outdated (ESB) or irrelevant (Burj Dubai). The former is a Class B office building whose floor heights are way too low to accommodate the needs of today's big companies, especially finance. The latter is a residential/hotel tower, whose floors never have the height of a modern office building. You need to start comparing these new WTC buildings to similar office buildings being built around the world. One that comes to mind is the IFC in Hong Kong:

    Roof Height: 406.9 m (1,335')
    Top floor: 401.9 m (1,319')
    Floor count: 88

    Now, who exactly are the "few people" that have described this as a "negative thing"?
    Last edited by pianoman11686; September 7th, 2006 at 10:38 PM.

  2. #3272

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    View from the east.

    Talk about a mismatched set of varying heights.....and I don't mean the buildings.

  3. #3273

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    Can you imagine if we have a similar complex of 3 or so monumental buildings going up at about the same time on the MSG site!!!

  4. #3274

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    A First Look at Freedom Tower’s Neighbors
    NY Times

    By DAVID W. DUNLAP
    Published: September 8, 2006
    The developer of the new World Trade Center unveiled the designs yesterday for three gargantuan skyscrapers at ground zero that would serve as steppingstones to the Freedom Tower and, with it, remake the New York skyline.
    Each building has a different famous architect — Norman Foster and Richard Rogers, both of London, and Fumihiko Maki of Tokyo — and a distinct design. Known simply as Towers 2, 3 and 4, they would occupy three parcels between Church and Greenwich Streets. Together with the PATH terminal by Santiago Calatrava, they would be the trade center’s front door to the rest of downtown, with the signature Freedom Tower rising to the west.
    Taken in a single sweep, the designs presented yesterday by the developer, Larry A. Silverstein, offered the most comprehensive picture to date of what the finished trade center might — just might — look like in 2011 or 2012, if development unfolds as planned.
    That is something it has stubbornly refused to do so far. Mr. Silverstein still needs tenants and financing. And the Police Department, which will review the security, has only just received the plans. Its objections to the original Freedom Tower forced a redesign last summer. Foundation work finally started in March.
    At the presentation, the architects and government officials said the three proposed towers were meant to respect and defer to the trade center memorial below, the true heart of the site. But only in contrast with the 1,368-foot Freedom Tower (1,776 feet if measured to the top of its mast) would these three skyscrapers seem deferential.
    Lord Foster’s Tower 2, across Church Street from the 18th-century St. Paul’s Chapel, would be taller than the Empire State Building without its antenna. Topped by four enormous diamonds, illuminated at night and steeply inclined toward the memorial, it would reach 1,254 feet, with an 85-foot tripod-shaped antenna to complete the highest diamond.
    Tower 3, by Lord Rogers, would rise 1,155 feet. Its bold exoskeletal framework of diagonal braces would create a diamond pattern echoing the rooftop of Tower 2. Even the smallest and subtlest building, Mr. Maki’s 947-foot Tower 4, would be taller than the Citigroup Center.
    The grouping has none of the original trade center’s uniformity. The architects described the results of their collaboration as a fusion that adhered to the master site plan by Daniel Libeskind, but — except for Tower 2 — the designs bear little resemblance to Mr. Libeskind’s early renderings, which showed buildings shaped like quartz crystals.
    If these new designs form any kind of ensemble with the Freedom Tower — Tower 1, by David M. Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill — it is probably more of a jazz quartet.
    “Think about five years from now,” Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff urged the audience at the unveiling, on the top floor of Mr. Silverstein’s 7 World Trade Center, the only finished building at ground zero. “We will stand on this site and literally side by side will be the work of seven of the world’s greatest architects — Libeskind, Foster, Maki, Rogers, Calatrava, Childs — all there. In one place. Nowhere else in the entire world.”
    (The seventh, inadvertently omitted from Mr. Doctoroff’s remarks, is Frank Gehry, who is to design the performing arts center next to the Freedom Tower.)
    The new designs follow Mr. Libeskind’s dictum that the office towers step up in height from the southernmost parcel to the Freedom Tower, forming a kind of skyscraping spiral around the memorial plaza.
    “The silhouette of the buildings does exactly what the master plan called for,” Mr. Libeskind said yesterday, expressing his enthusiasm for the designs. “I never wanted a monolithic site where the buildings looked the same.”

    No matter the polish and refinement of the models and renderings seen yesterday, however, the designs will certainly be subject to change in coming months and years, like all of the other projects at ground zero.
    Mr. Silverstein said security was a primary goal in the towers’ design.
    “We’ve spent time with N.Y.P.D.,” Mr. Silverstein said, and will continue to do so “to make sure that these buildings are built as safe as a building can be built.”
    But Deputy Commissioner Paul J. Browne, a spokesman for the Police Department, said in an e-mail message: “The N.Y.P.D. was only shown plans for the additional structures on Tuesday, Sept. 5. Beyond that I can’t comment.”
    Under the terms of an April agreement with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is in place conceptually but has yet to be signed, Mr. Silverstein would construct and control Towers 2, 3 and 4. He is also developing the Freedom Tower for the authority. Mr. Silverstein has surrendered his interest in the Tower 5 site, where the former Deutsche Bank building still stands, awaiting demolition. Tower 5 has not yet been designed.
    Mr. Silverstein said Gov. George E. Pataki asked him in April whether conceptual designs could be prepared for the three towers before Sept. 11. “I looked at him and I said, ‘Governor, if this needs to be done, I can tell you it’s going to be excruciatingly difficult, but if it’s a requirement that you’ve got to get it done in this timeframe, then let’s get to it,’ ” he recalled yesterday.
    Employees of Foster & Partners, the Richard Rogers Partnership and Maki & Associates worked together on the 25th floor of 7 World Trade Center, overlooking ground zero, with a digital clock on the wall counting off the hours to deadline.
    The governor seemed pleased by the results. “These are some of the most stunning buildings you will ever see anywhere in the world,” Mr. Pataki said yesterday.
    Tower 2 at 200 Greenwich Street, between Vesey and Fulton Streets, would have 2.3 million square feet of office space. There would be 78 floors, four of them trading floors, and 143,000 square feet of retail space. Lord Foster said its southeast edge follows Mr. Libeskind’s Wedge of Light, defined by the angle of the sun at 8:46 a.m. on Sept. 11, when the terrorist attack began.
    The shaft is to be divided into quadrants, culminating in diamond forms meant to direct the eye down to the memorial. The surface of these diamonds is likely to be porous, so snow and ice will not accumulate.
    Construction of Tower 2 will require the removal of the Vesey Street staircase, also called the “survivors’ stairway,” which is the only aboveground remnant of the original trade center that still stands where it did on 9/11.
    Tower 3 at 175 Greenwich Street, between Dey and Cortlandt Streets, with 2.1 million square feet of office space, has been designed by Lord Rogers as flat-topped, with asymmetrical shoulders and a framework intended to distribute the building’s weight load in case columns are knocked out. There are five trading floors in the 71-story tower and 133,000 square feet of retail space.
    Cortlandt Street will be kept open between Tower 3 and Tower 4. The Port Authority had proposed building a shopping arcade that would have joined the buildings’ bases, but city officials objected to the loss of an open, public corridor between the memorial and the rest of Lower Manhattan.
    Tower 4 at 150 Greenwich Street, between Cortlandt and Liberty Streets, is the most understated, with a sheer curtain wall. The 61-story building, with 1.8 million square feet of office space, begins as a parallelogram and then becomes a trapezoid.
    In the 146,000 square feet of retail space at the base, Mr. Maki has proposed a multilevel public chamber at Liberty Street, through which commuters bound for Wall Street will pass. He has also proposed a restaurant overlooking the memorial plaza, offering the public an elevated vantage.
    Under the conceptual development agreement, most of Mr. Maki’s tower is to be occupied by the Port Authority and New York City.
    Asked whether the authority had a hand in shaping the building’s minimalism, Kenneth J. Ringler Jr., the executive director, said: “We certainly were not involved in that. These are artists and these are their designs

  5. #3275
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYTimes View Post
    Mr. Silverstein said Gov. George E. Pataki asked him in April whether conceptual designs could be prepared for the three towers before Sept. 11. “I looked at him and I said, ‘Governor, if this needs to be done, I can tell you it’s going to be excruciatingly difficult, but if it’s a requirement that you’ve got to get it done in this timeframe, then let’s get to it,’ ” he recalled yesterday.
    As great as the unveiling was, this is another reminder of just how much influence Pataki has on the content and timeframe of the WTC site. Undoubtedly, it was in his best interest to have this unveiling before the 5th anniversary, just as it was in his best interest to place the cornerstone of the Freedom Tower on July 4th, etc., etc. But it seems his demands were exceeded, as we got three fully-designed buildings, not concepts. I really hope not much changes, especially vis-a-vis security concerns about the cavernous, exposed atriums of all the towers.

    Well, I have to correct that last statement: I wouldn't mind if Maki's tower was redesigned, or at least edited.

    Anyone have any speculation on Tower 5's design/unveiling/architect?

  6. #3276

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    1. Assuming that Towers 1, 2 and 3 are built as they are, who will likely use the antennaes that are supposed to go on top of them? I understand that a lot of over-the-air channels were knocked out when the Twins fell and they had their antennaes hoisted on the ESB in the meantime. Are those TV channels antennaes going back to the WTC? Who else will go to the WTC and which ones stay at the ESB?

    2. What will exactly happen to the ESB, especially if new development on the West Side and Penn Station takes off? What kind of uses are possible if there's no demand for office space there?

    3. What uses are possible for WTC 5? How accessible would it be? Can WTC 5 ultimately figure in the master plan?

    4. What is the future of Century 21 in the area?

  7. #3277
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    ^I think Much of the ESB could eventually be converted into condos.

  8. #3278

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMGarcia View Post
    View from the east.

    Talk about a mismatched set of varying heights.....and I don't mean the buildings.
    Hey watch it, or else Libeskind, I and that guy from Jackass will bumrush you. We'll, umm, kick you in the crotch, or knees, whatever we can reach.

    How tall is Libeskind btw?

  9. #3279
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    Is that Gehry's Beekman Tower just below that space ^^^^^ between Libeskind <> Foster?

    [pause to edit]

    On second thought, it's probably the Woolworth ...

  10. #3280

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    Imagine the view from the west side of Millenium Hilton when the whole thing is completed...

    :drool:

  11. #3281
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    Amid Talk of Three Impressive Buildings,
    Silence on One Important Issue

    NY TIMES
    By CHARLES V. BAGLI
    September 8, 2006

    There was supposed to be one more big ground zero announcement yesterday to dispel the notion that progress is slow in rebuilding Lower Manhattan.

    The Pataki administration had hoped that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey would formally approve the revised master plan to build four new office towers at the World Trade Center site, clearing the way for construction only days before the fifth anniversary of the terrorist attack. It would have been a public relations coup when combined with the developer Larry A. Silverstein’s unveiling of designs for three of the towers by world-renowned architects.

    But a tentative meeting of the Port Authority board was canceled. Negotiations between Mr. Silverstein and state, city and Port Authority officials foundered on Labor Day over several key issues, mostly related to money and timing. Mr. Silverstein, however, did show off his building designs.

    “There are still some outstanding issues,” said Charles A. Gargano, vice chairman of the Port Authority and the state’s top economic development official. “I believe they’ll be worked out. It’ll take fairness on both sides. If Silverstein Properties negotiates in good faith, it can be done.”

    Although both sides say there has been progress and they will complete the deal in time for the Port Authority’s regularly scheduled Sept. 21 board meeting, some officials once again accused Mr. Silverstein of being “greedy.”

    Executives working with the developer expressed disappointment that officials had focused on a few remaining issues instead of recognizing all that had been accomplished. And they countered that the Port Authority’s bureaucracy was moving too slowly, raising the project’s cost by hundreds of millions of dollars at a time when construction costs are rising 2 percent a month.

    “Tremendous progress has been made in discussions between the Port Authority and Silverstein,” said Janno Lieber, who oversees the project for Mr. Silverstein. “We fully expect the deal to be finalized as scheduled in the very near future.”

    A tentative agreement in April between Mr. Silverstein and government officials was supposed to have put an end to years of acrimony. Under that plan, Mr. Silverstein surrendered to the Port Authority control of the $2 billion Freedom Tower and a second site nearby. He retained the rights to build the other three towers on the east side of the 16-acre trade center property, along Greenwich Avenue. The Port Authority, in turn, had to complete the excavation and site preparation for the towers along Greenwich Street in 2007 so that Mr. Silverstein could begin construction and complete the work by 2012.

    The agreement cut Mr. Silverstein’s development fee in half, to 2&#189; percent. To ensure that he could get a mortgage and build quickly, the city and the authority offered to lease a combined 1.2 million square feet of space in what is known as Tower 4, the smallest of the three new towers.

    According to state and Port Authority officials, negotiations over a final agreement were progressing quickly enough that Gov. George E. Pataki pushed for the Port Authority to meet yesterday, two weeks earlier than planned. Officials complained that Mr. Silverstein tried to use the governor’s eagerness for a deal to extract concessions worth tens of millions of dollars, something Silverstein executives denied vehemently yesterday.

    In recent days, officials said, Mr. Silverstein said that he wanted the city and the authority to pay $78 a square foot for their office space, far more than the $50 a square foot officials assumed in April and $20 more than they offered in recent talks, according to state and Port Authority officials.

    The officials said that Mr. Silverstein’s rent number for a building in 2012 was exuberant, even for the perpetually optimistic developer. The average rent today for first-class office space downtown is $41.78 a square foot.

    The Silverstein camp offered to put the matter into the hands of a arbitrator, a suggestion that the Port Authority rejected.

    In a speech on Wednesday about the resurgence of Lower Manhattan, Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff said jokingly, “Larry Silverstein is so confident in the future that he’s already raising the rent for the space the city will take in Tower 4.”

    He returned to the subject at yesterday’s news conference about the building designs: “What we are unveiling today is a true testament, Larry, to you and to your vision, to your perseverance, which we all wish sometimes you didn’t have as much of.”

    Another contentious issue involves the Port Authority’s obligation to excavate the sites along Greenwich Street by mid-2007, which would allow Mr. Silverstein to begin construction and adhere to the strict schedule laid out in April. Mr. Silverstein now contends that the Port Authority will not complete the work until sometime in 2008. Because of the delay, Mr. Silverstein said he should be entitled to a rent reduction over seven months, which officials said could be worth as much as $50 million.

    Port Authority officials countered that they have now figured out an engineering plan that would allow them to do the work by mid-2007.

    The developer remains unconvinced.

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  12. #3282
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    And the Police Department, which will review the security, has only just received the plans. Its objections to the original Freedom Tower forced a redesign last summer.

    Deputy Commissioner Paul J. Browne, a spokesman for the Police Department, said in an e-mail message: “The N.Y.P.D. was only shown plans for the additional structures on Tuesday, Sept. 5. Beyond that I can’t comment.”
    I just hope we don't end up with three more 20-story windowless bunkers.

  13. #3283
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    Quote Originally Posted by 212 View Post
    I just hope we don't end up with three more 20-story windowless bunkers.
    That's what I became worried about after I saw the renderings of the very glassy and transparent lobbies of the complementary towers.

  14. #3284
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    ^^ Yep. Somehow we have to preserve that glassy openness (you could even call it freedom). Towers 2, 3 and 4 are growing on me.

    I have my doubts about the memorial plaza, but the transit corridor could be beautiful, thanks to Calatrava and Maki.

    I agree with lbjeffries that Maki is getting a bad rap. It's Tower 4, it's respectful and it doesn't need to shout. Interesting how it forms a twin assemblage with Tower 3, while Tower 2, itself split by those notches, twins with the FT. And Foster and Rogers frame Calatrava well.

    If the FT's base is returned to sanity somehow, the new WTC could turn out OK. Not iconic like the original twins, but still a good urban skyscape.
    Last edited by 212; September 8th, 2006 at 03:09 AM.

  15. #3285

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    http://www.wtc.com/download.aspx?id=197-w

    Slowly losing its romantic character following the construction of 1 CMP, the downtown skyline may be getting it back.

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