View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

192. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #3436
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

    "Get the hell out of here," PA Executive Director Ken Ringler reportedly yelled at Silverstein.

    "This deal is dead. Pay your goddamn rent."
    F'ing Hilarious ...

    Sounds exactly like "discussions" between me and my landlord.

    I guess in the world of NYC Real Estate -- no matter your status -- it's all the same

  2. #3437


    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    I'be been meaning to clear this up, but has Tower 5 gone back to being commercial?


    Port Authority Vice Chairman Charles A. Gargano said, “...We now have a comprehensive plan that outlines the roles of all those responsible for the rebuilding, allowing them to move aggressively forward to build a spectacular memorial, the major office towers and a transportation hub that will interconnect the PATH system, subways and ferries.”
    Haha. Spectacular! So funny: So true. A real spectacle that memorial will be and has been. But I don't think that's something to brag about.

  3. #3438


    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    F'ing Hilarious ...

    Sounds exactly like "discussions" between me and my landlord.

    I guess in the world of NYC Real Estate -- no matter your status -- it's all the same
    Which brings us to a point. The Port Authority is still one of NY's largest landlords. I say they should get the full blame for what's been going on down there the past five years. $10 million a month for a hole in the ground?

  4. #3439


    This is well after the argument, but the problem with Ada's piece isn't that her specific arguments are wrong, but that the values behind what she chose to comment on are wrong. For one, she's simply anti development and believes that buildings should be developed like medieval cathedrals. Of course, to do that, it helps to have a population of serfs that you can abuse so that cost is no object.

    Can anyone hear the buildings talking to each other? There is another tradition in NYC that it is the diversity of architecture that creates the interest. The biggest problem with these buildings is that they are all coming from the same era, steel and glass. But to some, that would be the thread of communication between them. The risk is that they will become dated at the same time and in the same way. More likely, the four (plus one later for tower 5) architects should be worried that one of them will age poorly relative to the others.


    Oh yes, and Brodsky got the twisted politics just about right. BTW, Silverstein will be bidding on tower 5, which will almost certainly be farmed out to another developer. I'd be willing to bet that he ends up with that one also.
    Last edited by davestanke; October 14th, 2006 at 12:25 AM. Reason: Additon

  5. #3440
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    NYC - Financial District


    Two insurers reach agreement on WTC pact

    by Erik Engquist

    October 13, 2006

    The Port Authority, which owns the site, stands to receive $130 million from Gulf Insurance Co. and $187 million from Travelers Indemnity Co.

    Two more insurance companies have reached a deal that paves the way for them to pay claims stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks, sources say.

    The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, stands to receive $130 million from Gulf Insurance Co. and $187 million from Travelers Indemnity Co. to help pay for construction at the World Trade Center site.

    Travelers and Gulf have agreed that the policy would remain valid under the plan in which Mr. Silverstein would transfer some site development rights to the Port Authority.

    The agency and World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein sued the two insurers and five others in June, worried that the firms would refuse to pay the authority because Mr. Silverstein held the policy.

    Agreements have been reached with all but Allianz Insurance Co., which owes $552 million, and Royal Indemnity Co., which owes $252 million.

    Mr. Silverstein has already been awarded $4.6 billion in insurance to pay rent for rebuilding rights at ground zero and to build the 1,776-foot Freedom Tower.


  6. #3441


    Allianz and Royal Indemnity, may your share prices collapse and your executives be hauled off for securities fraud.

  7. #3442

    Default Ap Wire

    some good news ...

    Appeals court upholds verdicts in mammoth WTC insurance cases

    By Larry Neumeister

    11:04 a.m. October 18, 2006

    NEW YORK – A federal appeals court on Wednesday upheld jury verdicts requiring insurance companies to pay developer Larry Silverstein an extra $1.1 billion to rebuild the World Trade Center complex.
    A three-judge panel of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said it found no error that requires it to set aside jury decisions over insurance payouts on the trade center, which was destroyed by terrorists on Sept. 11, 2001.

    Silverstein had insured the twin towers for $3.5 billion, but he sought to recover double that amount, saying the trade center's twin towers were victimized by two hijacked airplanes, and therefore there were two attacks.

    Lawyers on both sides had asked the appeals panel to take a fresh look at the outcomes of two trials stemming from disagreements over nearly two dozen insurance policies.

    In one trial that ended in April 2004, a federal jury found the majority of the insurers, holding more than $1.8 billion of the policy, were bound by a form that defined the destruction of the twin towers as a single event.

    In a second trial, which ended in December 2004, another jury concluded that nine insurance companies were bound by insurance form language that defined the destruction as two events. That verdict meant Silverstein will get another $1.1 billion to rebuild.

  8. #3443
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    New York City


    By Katie Hinderer

    NEW YORK CITY–The second circuit court has upheld the jury verdict from December 2004 that ruled the events of Sept. 11 were two separate incidents and the insurance companies should treat them as such. This ruling means Larry Silverstein, president and CEO of Silverstein Properties, is owed $4.6 billion, a representative for Silverstein, tells

    In a statement, Silverstein says, "Over the past five years, the World Trade Center insurers have engaged in an all-out campaign to shirk their legal and moral obligation to honor their policies and help finance the rebuilding of the World Trade Center."

    Silverstein goes on to say all the money he receives "has been committed to the rebuilding, including the community-oriented retail planned for the site and the office buildings, 40 percent of which will be owned by government."

    As reported by, a trial by jury initially ruled that the events were one incident in May 2004. A second trial reversed the verdict, siding with Silverstein.

  9. #3444
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Brooklyn, NY


    ^Serves those shameless insurance companies right!

  10. #3445
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    One has to ask why all these busses are going to be allowed to go to the WTC area in the first place ... This wreaks of another situation where Private Interests (Bus Companies, Tour Organizers) have been put above the Public Good. Let all the visitors take the subway from Port Authority ...

    No plan for W.T.C. buses in the early years
    By Skye H. McFarlane
    October 20, 2006

    The Port Authority has no plan for the hordes of tour buses expected to drive to the World Trade Center memorial the first two years it is open — a period when crowds are expected to be the largest.

    The issue of idling tour buses at the World Trade Center site surfaced Monday when Community Board 1’s W.T.C. Committee met to hear a status report from the Port Authority.

    The Port announced that its vehicle security center, which will provide the parking for visiting tour buses, will not open until 2011 at the earliest. The memorial is under construction and is scheduled to open by Sept. 11, 2009. The security center will be built under the damaged Deutsche Bank building at 130 Liberty St., where a deliberate demolition is expected to begin soon.

    Finding space for the tour buses was one of the earliest, most contentious fights connected to W.T.C. rebuilding, but it appeared to be settled years ago after the garage was moved from an area under the memorial to 130 Liberty. Millions of people are expected to visit the memorial every year, with the highest number, perhaps 7 million, in the first year.

    When board members asked what the Port Authority planned to do with the buses in the interim, Port representatives fell silent before saying they were not sure. Steve Coleman, a Port Authority spokesperson, later confirmed there is no plan in place yet to deal with bus traffic, but that the agency will work with the city to come up with a solution.

    C.B. 1 member Pat Moore, whose building overlooks the World Trade Center site, said Wednesday that the buses in question would likely drive beneath her window, to the tune of as many as 200 a day. The Port needs an interim plan, she said.

    “We don’t want them stopping and idling,” Moore said. “We don’t want them driving around causing traffic jams.”

    Moore worries that even when parking is in place, buses will create hazards on the narrow streets below the trade center site and spew large amounts of carbon dioxide into the air.

    “We’ve already been exposed to enough contaminants,” Moore said.

    John Dellaportas, a Battery Park City resident and founder of the Save West Street Coalition, said he was not surprised that the Port Authority hasn’t yet come up with a bus parking solution.

    “Its just typical of the poor planning that authorities have done with respect to every aspect of the World Trade Center site,” Dellaportas said.

    Dellaportas added his belief that the two-year parking gap will become a moot point. Based on what has happened at the site so far, he doubts that either the memorial or the vehicle security center will open on time.

    Lynn Rasic, spokesperson for the W.T.C. Memorial Foundation, argued that there is plenty of time between now and 2009 to work out a viable solution for the bus parking and that there is no cause for residents to be alarmed.

    “The foundation is working with its government partners at the Port Authority and the [Lower Manhattan Construction Command Center] to ensure that there is an interim plan,” Rasic said. “We are three years out. There is time to develop a plan to keep the traffic moving."

    Construction of the Vehicle Security Center will begin in the fall of 2007. In addition to bus parking, the facility will have security screening as well as loading and unloading points for trucks servicing the new World Trade towers. The Port Authority’s new PATH station and transit hub is also set to open in 2011.

    © 2006 Community Media, LLC

  11. #3446
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    NYC to look for more remains at WTC site

    Members of the New York Police Department Crime Scene Unit are
    seen at the World Trace Center site in New York on Friday,
    Oct. 20, 2006. Police and forensic experts dug through rubble at the
    World Trade Center site Friday in search of more human remains
    after bones were discovered as utility crews excavated a manhole
    there this week. The discovery Thursday angered families of Sept. 11
    victims. Some called for all work at the site to be halted for a new,
    systematic search and for Congress and the state to investigate.
    (AP Photo/Adam Rountree)

    By SARA KUGLER and AMY WESTFELDT, Associated Press Writers
    October 20, 2006

    NEW YORK - The city said Friday that it will search parts of the World Trade Center site again for remains of the Sept. 11 dead after several bones were pulled out of an abandoned manhole — a discovery that stirred up new fury and disbelief among victims' families.

    The family members demanded that construction stop at ground zero until remains of all their loved ones are recovered. They also called for state and federal investigations into the failure to completely remove remains from ground zero.

    Mayor Michael Bloomberg called an emergency meeting at City Hall that included police, fire officials and the city medical examiner after the discovery of bones Thursday in a manhole in the 16-acre site. Remains as big as arm or leg bones were found, along with personal effects including at least one wallet, officials said.

    The meeting yielded a plan that would have utility companies that are inspecting manhole and utility areas be accompanied by staff from the police and fire departments and the medical examiner's office.

    City officials will also analyze underground areas at the site to see whether there could be places that weren't searched or need to be searched again.

    "We'll go out and look at other manholes and other things," Bloomberg said.

    At ground zero Friday, in an area far from where contractors discovered the bones a day earlier, people in hooded white suits went in and out of a white tent next to a police van and a garbage bin.

    Police and forensics experts were digging through dirt and other material pulled from the manhole in search for more remains, said an official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of instructions not to speak publicly about the matter.

    The discovery of bones angered family members, who want answers about why remains are still turning up five years after the attacks. The families said officials rushed to clean the site of steel and other debris without bringing in experts to look for remains.

    Diane Horning said that part of her son's body was located more than four years ago not far from where the bones were pulled from the manhole.
    "Oh my God, is that more of Matthew?" she said Friday of the latest discovery. "But it's been sitting there for over five years."

    Chief Medical Examiner Charles Hirsch told The Associated Press as he headed inside for the meeting, "We've been in touch with the families and expressed our concern."

    Construction work on the Sept. 11 memorial, the 1,776-foot Freedom Tower and a transit hub continued without interruption Friday, said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the site's owner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

    Construction workers assigned to the transit hub found remains in the manhole Thursday morning.

    A Consolidated Edison crew had excavated the manhole earlier in the week. The debris it initially removed from a vacuum-like machine has been sent to the city medical examiner's office, officials said.

    The remains of the 2,749 killed — 40 percent of whom have not yet been identified — are likely "in ground zero, under ground zero and certainly on the buildings surrounding ground zero," said Sally Regenhard, whose firefighter son was killed on Sept. 11.

    More than 750 bone fragments have been removed in the past year from a vacant skyscraper that the south tower collapsed into. Cleanup has not begun at another damaged building on the site's outskirts.

    In all, some 20,000 pieces of human remains have been found, but the DNA in thousands of the fragments — some just slivers of bone — was too damaged to yield matches to victims.

    When forensic scientists exhausted available processes to identify those remains, the city told families last year that the project was taking a break, perhaps for years, until new DNA technology could be developed.
    But last month, Hirsch said that new methods had been created by a Virginia company that works on Sept. 11 bone fragments, and that new identifications were likely.

  12. #3447
    Senior Member Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Fairfax, VA


    Unsettling reminder for many. Some of us, instead, said we would never forget...and haven't.

  13. #3448


    ^ Absolutely, some of us live like nothing happened, others live thinking of the body that was lying 30 feet from where I get coffee every morning.

    I don't want further delays but let's just not act as if GZ was nothing more than a land redevelopment project.

  14. #3449


    October 23, 2006

    Ground Zero human remains won't halt construction

    From Chris Kokenes and Deborah Brunswick

    "It's tragic that a handful of places were apparently not cleaned," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

    Sally Regenhard, whose son died on 9/11, reacts Friday to the discovery of more human remains.

    "We ask that construction at Ground Zero come to a halt," said Rosaleen Tallon, who lost a brother on 9/11.

    Construction at the World Trade Center site will continue despite discovery nearby of apparent remains of 9/11 victims, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Monday.

    After the remains were found Thursday and Sunday, angry family members of victims demanded that officials halt construction on the Freedom Tower and begin intensive searches.

    Bloomberg said the site where construction is occurring has "been thoroughly gone through and excavated" and operations would not be shut down.

    The Medical Examiner's office said 18 pieces of human remains were found Sunday; other human remains discovered last week in a manhole at a work site in lower Manhattan had led to the further searches.

    "I think the reasons that these [remains] weren't discovered before was that these are not functioning manholes or service boxes," Bloomberg said. "They were abandoned a long time ago, and when they were covered I just assume people said, 'Oh, there's nothing in there,' and didn't go in. But you have to remember that this was a massive cleanup."

    "It's tragic that a handful of places were apparently not cleaned or scrutinized as well as they should have been," Bloomberg said. "But remember, the fire department, who cares perhaps more than any group, did go through almost all these buildings." (Watch why victims' families are "sick, disgusted and outraged" -- 2:40)

    Deputy Mayor Ed Skyler said most of the 12 subterranean locations being searched had not been entered since the attacks.

    "They will go through every grain, every piece of material carefully and sift through it," he promised.

    Searchers expect to burrow into at least 12 subterranean areas in coming days, according to The Associated Press. About five have been excavated, AP reported.

    The underground pockets are located along the western edge of the 16-acre lower Manhattan site, underneath a service road built in March of 2002 to free up traffic on a major thruway that had been closed since the attacks. according to AP.

    However, some below-ground cavities that had been used for utility and infrastructure purposes were paved over without being searched for remains, AP reported.

    The Freedom Tower -- a 1,776-foot skyscraper -- is expected to be erected on the northern end of the trade center site and occupied by 2010.

    Protest group calls for construction halt

    On Friday, members of World Trade Center Families for Proper Burial protested what they said was the government's mishandling of remains.

    They have called for a halt to all construction in the area and a renewed, more exhaustive search for remains.

    "We ask that construction at Ground Zero come to a halt," said Rosaleen Tallon, whose brother Sean Tallon died in the attacks five years ago.

    "These are all moms. I'm a mom, I've got a 2-year-old, and I've a 4-year-old, and their bones, and their teeth, and their hair, and their skin, and their eyeballs are all precious to me. You couldn't put a price on that. And as human beings, we should not put a price on it."

    Another family member of a 9/11 victim told AP that the grim discovery sends a message. "Their actions say remains are not a priority, they're secondary to the rebuilding," said Charles Wolf, who told AP he lost his wife and has never received any of her identified remains. "This is bringing up all the gnawing, gut-wrenching stuff inside us again," he said to AP.

    Sally Regenhard lost her firefighter son during the attacks. "My son gave his life for this city -- for the state of New York and for the city of New York," she said. "He went into the Port Authority property which was immune and exempt from all the building and fire codes. He went into a death trap and now these agencies, these governmental entities say that my son cannot be found. To this day, I have not found one single iota of my son."

    Last week, Bloomberg met with city and state agencies at City Hall to discuss the renewed search for remains of the victims of the attacks.

    The Department of Design and Construction and the Lower Manhattan Construction Command Center are leading the effort to review underground areas that were searched during the initial 9/11 recovery effort and to identify additional areas, if any, that weren't searched and from which human remains could be recovered, the mayor's office said in a written statement.

    The discovery of more remains was made Thursday by Phoenix Contractors, a firm hired by the city to clean sludge from underground drains under the corner of West Street and Vesey Street, officials said. (Full story)

    Workers found the bones as they sifted through debris removed from pipes.

    Later, additional remains were discovered at a Con Ed facility, where sludge from the site had been taken the previous day, said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

    The remains, some as large as arm or leg bones, were turned over to the medical examiner's office.

    Earlier this year, nearly 300 other human bone fragments -- typically smaller than an inch -- were found atop a 41-story building near the World Trade Center site that had been badly damaged in the attacks.

    No remains have been identified for more than 1,150 of the 2,749 people killed in the New York attacks.

    CNN's Ekin Nasuhogullari and Jennifer Rizzo contributed this report.

    © 2006 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.

  15. #3450

    Default ?

    How could something the size of a leg bone wind up inside a manhole? To me this just doesn't make sense. Maybe I am missing something.

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