View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.18%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.80%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    47 24.61%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.52%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.90%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #31

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    Totals are in:



    5,200 submit designs for World Trade Center memorial; record for a memorial design competition


    By KAREN MATTHEWS
    The Associated Press
    7/17/03 11:59 AM


    NEW YORK (AP) -- A record 5,200 individuals and groups from around the world submitted proposals for a memorial to the victims of the World Trade Center attack, officials announced Thursday.

    The submissions came from every U.S. state except Alaska and 62 nations, said Kevin Rampe, president of the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

    "The tremendous response this petition has received from individuals at home and abroad is a true testament of the unity people from around the world have demonstrated since the Sept. 11 attacks," Gov. George E. Pataki said.

    A 13-member jury is to choose a handful of finalists in September and a winner later in the fall. The competition was open to anyone over age 18 who paid a fee of $25. The deadline was June 30.

    The submissions are a record in a design competition for a memorial, corporation officials said. The previous record was 1,421 submissions for the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, D.C.

    The memorial is to include references to the Feb. 26, 1993, bombing of the trade center as well as the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    It is to be built on a 4.7-acre site encompassing the so-called "footprints" where the center's twin towers stood. A design competition to create a master plan for the entire ground zero site was held earlier this year.

    The jurors chosen to pick a design includes Vietnam Veterans' Memorial designer Maya Lin and Paula Grant Berry, whose husband, David, was killed at the trade center.

    Applicants had to mail their designs to a warehouse where they were checked for anthrax, chemical agents *and explosives before being shipped to a second, undisclosed location where the jury will review them.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    But how many of these submissions are actually practical designs which will be considered by the jury?

  2. #32

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    Those Alaskans... not a shred of decency among them. *How dare they not submit a proposal!

  3. #33
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
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    It's summer up there, they've all gone fishing.

    5,200 to go through in two months, they've got their work cut out for them.

  4. #34

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    Mr. Libeskind will not be the lead architect on the terminal, however; because federal money will pay for it, a more experienced design team has to take the lead role

    So, he's not good enough for the terminal, but OK for the rest.
    The persistent suggestions that he's incompetent annoys me.

  5. #35

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    July 18, 2003

    Daniel Libeskind's Tower

    One central question in the future of Lower Manhattan was answered this week when Daniel Libeskind, the architect of the winning master plan for ground zero, and David Childs, a consulting partner of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, agreed to work together on the design of the 1,776-foot tower at the heart of Mr. Libeskind's plan. Mr. Childs's immediate client is Larry Silverstein, the developer who held the lease on the World Trade Center when it was destroyed and who clearly intends that whatever replaces it will be commercially practical. Still, the ultimate client for Mr. Childs, like Mr. Libeskind, is the public.

    There will be lots of second-guessing about this forced collaboration, in which Mr. Libeskind has taken a lesser role than Mr. Childs. But it could very well mark a promising beginning of serious design work downtown. If Gov. George Pataki fulfills his role as the people's ultimate representative and the collaboration's ultimate referee, the Libeskind-Childs relationship could bring forth the kind of inspiring renaissance that Lower Manhattan deserves.

    The first test this partnership faces may well be the placement of Mr. Libeskind's tower on the site. The master plan puts the tower at the northwest corner of ground zero. Mr. Silverstein has instead proposed putting the tower more directly over the transportation hub in the middle of the site, closer to the edge of the financial district. His argument has been that this position would make it easier for tenants and tourists to go directly from the subways and PATH station to the tower without traipsing across a construction site that is likely to be busy for years. Nevertheless, there are many good reasons to build the tower where Mr. Libeskind proposed it. In that spot, it helps knit together east and west in Lower Manhattan, shifting the center of gravity away from the financial district and more toward Battery Park City.

    This, in itself, will echo a probable shift in the way the ground zero acreage is perceived by the public, reflecting a warmer, more permeable space than the World Trade Center ever created. There is no reason, especially at this stage of development, why it should be impossible to provide easy transportation access for the tower's tenants without leading them through a construction maze. There may even be energy advantages, according to some early analysis, to be derived from keeping the tower in the place where Mr. Libeskind put it.

    Besides these very practical reasons for preferring Mr. Libeskind's chosen location and besides his eloquent aesthetic and symbolic arguments there is another excellent reason to keep the tower in that position. By making this concession at the outset, Mr. Silverstein would graciously signify his acknowledgment of his broad public obligation in redeveloping ground zero. His architect will be taking the lead in designing this tower. It would be a welcome gesture and a practical one, too to give Mr. Childs the leeway to agree with Mr. Libeskind when he has the stronger argument, as we believe he does in this case.


    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

  6. #36
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    Default Ground Zero Developments

    Quote: from Christian Wieland on 5:51 am on July 18, 2003
    The first test this partnership faces may well be the placement of Mr. Libeskind's tower on the site. The master plan puts the tower at the northwest corner of ground zero. Mr. Silverstein has instead proposed putting the tower more directly over the transportation hub in the middle of the site, closer to the edge of the financial district. His argument has been that this position would make it easier for tenants and tourists to go directly from the subways and PATH station to the tower without traipsing across a construction site that is likely to be busy for years. Nevertheless, there are many good reasons to build the tower where Mr. Libeskind proposed it. In that spot, it helps knit together east and west in Lower Manhattan, shifting the center of gravity away from the financial district and more toward Battery Park City.

    This, in itself, will echo a probable shift in the way the ground zero acreage is perceived by the public, reflecting a warmer, more permeable space than the World Trade Center ever created. There is no reason, especially at this stage of development, why it should be impossible to provide easy transportation access for the tower's tenants without leading them through a construction maze. There may even be energy advantages, according to some early analysis, to be derived from keeping the tower in the place where Mr. Libeskind put it.

    Besides these very practical reasons for preferring Mr. Libeskind's chosen location and besides his eloquent aesthetic and symbolic arguments there is another excellent reason to keep the tower in that position. By making this concession at the outset, Mr. Silverstein would graciously signify his acknowledgment of his broad public obligation in redeveloping ground zero. His architect will be taking the lead in designing this tower. It would be a welcome gesture and a practical one, too to give Mr. Childs the leeway to agree with Mr. Libeskind when he has the stronger argument, as we believe he does in this case.


    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
    The Empire State building was put south of the midtown core to draw the center of gravity there, too. *Its still mostly alone.

    In my opinion, the northwest corner is a bad spot. *Closer to the hub makes more sense.

  7. #37
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
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    Maybe. As far as asthetics go, the overall skyline would look better with the tall tower closer to the center of the island, but the spiral was starting to grow on me.

    I'm not sure the ESB comparison is a good one since it was a half mile south of the midtown business district. Any building within this new complex will have excellent access to the transportation. The NW corner would be more adventageous for those coming off a ferry, so there's something to be said for either site.

    It would be nice if Silverstein didn't get everything he asks for. If left to him there would be no supertalls on the site at all.

  8. #38
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    I am not sure if this was discussed/brought up, elswhere. The thing I miss most about the WTC was even with their position off-center, there position was still "in the center". The towers terminated the axis' of many streets. They framed the Woolworth and St Pauls, or framed by the arch in Washington Square Park.

    I just wish the new tower has a similarly global and urbanistic impact.

  9. #39

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    So much terrazzo, so little recycled glass.
    What happened to the TV tower on Governors Island proposal? I have a friend in TV he says the broadcasters thought it a good idea. Have you seen the petition to have the remains left in the Freshkill Landfill transferred to the site? When they found a horse harness under the site when it was being built they should have let the archaeologists in, said to have been a ship's remains there. The harness was conserved at the Long Island Science Museum. Just a few thoughts from someone who worked for EBASCO, a Texas power plant builder who once had floors 91-96 in one of the towers and did the archeological survey of Fort Drum, prior to the relocation of the 10th Mountain Division from Camp Hale, CO, Bob Dole's old unit. They sent people home when the elevator shafts could go out of alignment in the wind, so she said. McComb designed City Hall and the Montauk light, should the new building be the home of the homeless National Lighthouse Museum?


    (Edited by georgejmyersjr at 11:52 am on July 21, 2003)

  10. #40

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    The transfer of remains from the Fresh Kills landfill will likely depend on the memorial plan chosen. Some designers no doubt included space for the WTC dust/dirt in their proposals.

  11. #41

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    I agree SunsetWorks; required elements of the Memorial Competition called for the designer's to include a 2,500 sq. ft. storage/work area for the unidentified victim's remains which are currently stored by the Coroner's Office in reefer trailers around the city. *

    Any new remains uncovered in the landfill would most likely be removed to the (proposed) Coroner's *refrigerated storage facility to be constructed at the WTC Memorial site.

  12. #42
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    The Lighthouse Museum is moving along, I believe, On Staten Island

    http://www.lighthousemuseum.org/

  13. #43

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    The Fresh Kills remains are basically dust/dirt/ash removed from the wtc site which includes microscopic human organic matter, as it is physically impossible to isolate "body parts" of this size. This is different material from the Medical Examiner's unidentified remains.

    Several family groups (Cantor, etc.) have requested the former material also be returned and interred as part of the WTC memorial, as it almost certainly includes pieces of unidentified WTC victims.

  14. #44

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    I see your point, SunsetWorks.

    It may be possible to add this particulate matter to concrete used in the construction of the WTC Memorial infrastructure - just an idea.

  15. #45

    Default Ground Zero Developments

    Another item...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Where the WTC stands


    Financing clouds original vision

    By MAGGIE HABERMAN and GREG GITTRICH
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

    Three months ago, Gov. Pataki stood before a luncheon of business leaders at the Ritz-Carlton hotel in lower Manhattan and set an aggressive timetable for rebuilding Ground Zero.
    He wanted architects to begin designing the signature 1,776-foot spire - envisioned by planner Daniel Libeskind - by this month. The steel for the tower would be in place by Sept. 11, 2006, the fifth anniversary of the attacks.


    Pataki acknowledged the goals would be tough to meet. "It leaves no room for error or delay," he said.

    Here's a rundown of where things stand and what major decisions lie ahead:


    Libeskind won an international design competition in February. Why is another architect now designing Libeskind's signature Freedom Tower?

    The tower and the other angular glass buildings in Libeskind's vision were intended to be illustrative - a point officials stressed leading to the selection of his plan in February.

    The goal of the design competition was to set aside specific land in the 16-acre disaster site for a memorial, a transportation hub, office buildings and the street grid.

    Then Pataki embraced Libeskind's signature skyscraper - implying that the architect would have an ongoing role in its construction.

    The problem: Pataki also needed to find someone to pay for the tower, and when asked after his optimistic April speech who would foot the bill, he replied: "Where's Larry?"

    No last name was necessary.

    Developer Larry Silverstein had signed a 99-year lease for the twin towers weeks before the hijacked jets exploded into the World Trade Center.

    Although Silverstein is mired in a legal battle with about 20 insurers, he stands to receive as much as $6.7 billion.

    So unlike the cash-strapped state and city, Silverstein expects he will have money to rebuild. He also has strong opinions and, like most developers on such projects, hired his own architect - David Childs - to flesh out Libeskind's vision.

    On Tuesday, Childs was given the lead role in designing the Freedom Tower after weeks of rancor over which architect would be in charge. Libeskind was given a secondary role.

    But while Libeskind had hoped for even more sway over the project, he walked away with a bigger role than he'd had before the issue was resolved.

    Isn't Childs' style very different from Libeskind's more sculptural approach?

    Yes.

    Childs is known for designing office towers, including the AOL Time Warner headquarters at Columbus Circle.

    Libeksind has spent most of his career as theorist and has gained fame for his cultural buildings, including the Jewish Museum in Berlin.

    Libeskind - who has never designed an office tower - drew the Freedom Tower so it scrapes the sky at 1,776 feet, a nod to the year of the nation's independence. In his design, the spire sits atop a building attached to a smaller office tower.

    Silverstein and Childs have taken a more pragmatic approach. Childs has drawn sketches that change Libeskind's design of the spire. In Childs' version, the spire sits on top of a 70-story office building - not next to one.

    Silverstein also prefers a revised plan that would shift the tower closer to the new transit hub - making it more commercially marketable.

    What role has Pataki played in getting Libeskind and Childs together?

    Pataki is the definitive leader of the rebuilding process.

    He holds the most sway over the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which oversees rebuilding, and the Port Authority, which owns Ground Zero.

    LMDC President Kevin Rampe and Chief Operating Officer Matt Higgins - both loyal to Pataki - summoned Childs and Libeskind to a private meeting Tuesday.

    The two were placed in a conference room overlooking The Pit and told to figure out a way to get along. Rampe said he told them that the project was "larger than either of them and needed both of their skills to be accomplished."

    Five hours later, they came to a handshake deal. "Certainly it's been contentious, but productive," Rampe said. "It's going to be contentious because the stakes are so high and the project is so important."

    How much influence does Mayor Bloomberg wield?

    Bloomberg has been able to shape some redevelopment decisions through Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff. But one way of getting the city more control - a land swap exchanging Kennedy and LaGuardia airports for Ground Zero - is dead.

    When will construction of the tower begin?

    Pataki hopes to lay the cornerstone of the building no later than August 2004. That month, his fellow Republicans, led by President Bush, will come to the city for the GOP national convention.

    How many office buildings will rise at Ground Zero?

    Silverstein has insisted that all 10 million square feet of office space destroyed at the World Trade Center be replaced.

    Silverstein's aides criticized Libeskind's plan, which envisions three office buildings and the Freedom Tower, as "not compatible with tenant needs." Silverstein has asked officials to squeeze another office building onto the site and diminish the girth of Libeskind's towers.

    But many rebuilding officials want to reduce the amount of office space on the 16 acres. The PA is considering buying land adjacent to the site so some of the 10 million square feet of commercial space can be moved off Ground Zero. But City Hall will protest such a move unless it can collect full taxes on the land - something it doesn't on other PA-owned properties.

    How does the memorial factor into all this?

    Libeskind's vision sets aside 4.7 acres for the memorial. The area leaves portions of the site's scarred slurry wall exposed.

    A jury will choose a design this fall from among more than 5,000 ideas submitted.

    Originally published on July 20, 2003

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