View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

192. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #5251
    Forum Veteran Daquan13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    East Boston, MA.


    Even Lady Liberty gets into the act! Cool!!

    I woner how much that would cost if it could be bought.

  2. #5252
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002


    A Glimpse of Old Waterfront, on Dry Land


    (see article for interactive panorama)

    How often in the 21st century does one have the chance to see a 19th-century river wall embedded under a 20th-century highway?

    Rarely enough that amateur urban archaeologists might want to hasten to the observation gallery in the Winter Garden overlooking the World Trade Center site. For the next few days — but not much longer — a 40-foot-long section will be visible of the massive bulkhead that marked Lower Manhattan’s edge until the creation of Battery Park City. What can be seen are several courses of granite blocks, each about two feet high, two feet deep and four feet long. They are arranged in a kind of monumental Flemish bond, with the blocks’ long and short sides laid in an alternating pattern.

    Zachary J. Davis, a principal archaeologist with the Louis Berger Group, which is working for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to study and document the river wall, said this portion of the bulkhead was finished in 1899. As excavation proceeds, archaeologists will get a better picture of how the wall was constructed. Contemporary diagrams show the bulkhead to have combined granite, concrete, small and large stones, and timber cribbing.

    Though far more modest in appearance than the great bridges of the late 19th century, the Hudson River bulkhead, which runs from the Battery to 59th Street, was arguably just as instrumental in permitting New York to flourish. Its construction allowed ships with deep drafts to nose right up to the edge of Manhattan Island. Think of the array of ocean liners that once docked along West Street.

    It is possible that the public hasn’t seen this portion of the Hudson River bulkhead since ferries stopped running between New Jersey and New York in 1967. (They have since resumed.) That was when the Battery Park City landfill was begun, using the earth and rock that were being excavated to create the deep foundations for the original World Trade Center.

    The old river wall lay undisturbed under West Street since then. But this part of the wall stands in the way of an underground pedestrian passage that will link the World Trade Center and the World Financial Center. “This becomes the replacement for the bridge that was destroyed on 9/11,” said Henry R. Caso, director of construction for Brookfield Properties, the principal owner of the World Financial Center and Winter Garden. It is to be finished by the end of 2012.

    The only way through the wall is demolition, so the time to see this historical remnant is now.

    The river wall as it appears from the Winter Garden observation gallery.
    It is visible directly behind the yellow cab of the excavator.
    Toward the center right, a ladder is resting against the old wall.

  3. #5253
    Forum Veteran Daquan13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    East Boston, MA.


    Like a bit of old history! Wonder if they knew that was there when the Twins were being built.

  4. #5254


    It's on the opposite side of West St. It was the WTC construction that caused it to be buried.

  5. #5255
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002


    18th-Century Ship Found at Trade Center Site


    (see article for more pics)

    In the middle of tomorrow, a great ribbed ghost has emerged from a distant yesterday.

    On Tuesday morning, workers excavating the site of the underground vehicle security center for the future World Trade Center hit a row of sturdy, upright wood timbers, regularly spaced, sticking out of a briny gray muck flecked with oyster shells.

    Obviously, these were more than just remnants of the wooden cribbing used in the late 18th and early 19th centuries to extend the shoreline of Manhattan Island ever farther into the Hudson River. (Lower Manhattan real estate was a precious commodity even then.)

    “They were so perfectly contoured that they were clearly part of a ship,” said A. Michael Pappalardo, an archaeologist with the firm AKRF, which is working for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to document historical material uncovered during construction.

    By Wednesday, the outlines made it plain: a 30-foot length of a wood-hulled vessel had been discovered about 20 to 30 feet below street level on the World Trade Center site, the first such large-scale archaeological find along the Manhattan waterfront since 1982, when an 18th-century cargo ship came to light at 175 Water Street.

    The area under excavation, between Liberty and Cedar Streets, had not been dug out for the original trade center. The vessel, presumably dating from the mid- to late 1700s, was evidently undisturbed more than 200 years.

    News of the find spread quickly. Archaeologists and officials hurried to the site, not only because of the magnitude of the discovery but because construction work could not be interrupted and because the timber, no longer safe in its cocoon of ooze, began deteriorating as soon as it was exposed to air.

    For that reason, Doug Mackey, the chief regional archaeologist for the New York State Historic Preservation Office, was grateful for the rainfall. “If the sun had been out,” he said, “the wood would already have started to fall apart.”

    As other archaeologists scrambled with tape measures over what appeared to be the floor planks of the ship’s lowermost deck, Mr. Mackey said, “We’re trying to record it as quickly as possible and do the analysis later.” All around the skeletal hull, excavation for the security center proceeded, changing the muddy terrain every few minutes.

    Romantics may conjure the picture of an elegant schooner passing in sight of the spire of Trinity Church. Professional archaeologists are much more reserved.

    They were even careful not to say for certain whether they were looking at the prow or the stern of the vessel, though the fanlike array of beams seemed to suggest that the aft (rear) portion of the ship was exposed. Mr. Pappalardo said the whole vessel may have been two or three times longer than the portion found.

    Perhaps the most puzzling and intriguing find was a semicircular metal collar, several feet across, apparently supported on a brick base, built into the hull. Perhaps it was some sort of an oven or steam contraption.

    About the farthest Mr. Mackey and Mr. Pappalardo would go in conjecture was to say that the sawed-off beams seemed to indicate that the hull had deliberately been truncated, most likely to be used as landfill material.

    A 1797 map shows that the excavation site is close to where Lindsey’s Wharf and Lake’s Wharf once projected into the Hudson. So, no matter how many mysteries now surround the vessel, it may turn out that the ghost even has a name.

  6. #5256


    Quote Originally Posted by BStyles View Post
    I saw this cool looking model of the entire WTC, past and present, with 1WTC, Towers 2,3,4, The Twins, Goldman Sachs, and the new 7WTC on display at this store on Broadway. It looked pretty cool. But wow, what a cluster of towers.
    Attachment 9935
    I saw that too on Sunday and I want one. Too bad all the inaccuracies init would kill me...

  7. #5257
    Forum Veteran Daquan13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    East Boston, MA.


    Wonder what else they'll find down there. Gold, maybe?
    Last edited by Daquan13; July 15th, 2010 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #5258

    Cool This Downtown Express Article could have been written in 2005!

    Construction of Ground Zero is Moving Along as Planned

    BY Aline Reynolds
    July 16, 2010

    In undertaking the daunting task of redeveloping Ground Zero, real estate man Larry Silverstein had a vision: to transform the site into a state-of-the-art office complex. He sought to create a center that’s accessible, secure and eco-friendly all at once.
    Silverstein revolutionized the safety standards of the city in demanding that certain criteria be met for 7 World Trade Center, the model for Towers 2, 3 and 4. Seven WTC was the first green commercial office building in New York City, according to Silverstein Properties. The 52-story office tower, located at 250 Greenwich Street, opened in May 2006 and is now 87 percent occupied.
    “Larry wouldn’t have it any other way,” said Dara McQuillan, senior vice president of marketing and communications for Silverstein Properties.
    “A lot of people wrote Downtown off after 9/11,” McQuillan added. “The challenge for Larry was to incorporate the standards and convince people that it was the right thing to do.”
    The towers meet several sustainable design guidelines and goals established specifically for the WTC Site. The buildings, for example, will all be Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) gold certified. The towers’ other green features include high-efficiency cooling/heating and plumbing systems and use of rainwater for the cooling tower. A minimum of 50 percent of the building’s wood will be harvested using sustainable, eco-friendly methods. Purified air will filter in from the towers’ roofs.
    Electricity costs in Towers 2 through 4 will be approximately 35 percent lower than in a typical Manhattan office building, and much of it will be powered by renewable energy. The buildings also save money on cooling costs, since its glass exteriors will repel heat from the sun while allowing the light to pass through. There will be no need for energy-consuming artificial lighting during the day, since more than 90 percent of the towers’ interior will incorporate natural light.
    As for safety, 7 WTC will again serve as the model for the other towers. The buildings will be well prepared for emergency evacuations. Stairways will be wide so that firefighters will easily be able to ascend with their equipment in an emergency situation. Seven WTC has sprinkler systems with twice the water capacity as the ones in the old Twin Towers. A cement fireproofing is ten times more adhesive, protecting the steel from heat. Seven WTC conducts a fire drill every six months to ensure that everyone can safely exit in approximately 20 minutes.
    Another goal is to bring the street back, to reincorporate the WTC complex into the Manhattan Street grid. The former Austin Tobin Plaza blocked pedestrian access to Greenwich Street. After 9/11, Silverstein and architect David Childs (who designed Towers 1 and 7) conceived of a way to make Greenwich Street accessible to the public by designing a smaller building at 7 WTC.
    “It completely opened up the area and allowed a lot of natural light to come in,” said Mcquillan.
    The master development plan will open up Greenwich Street all the way through the WTC site.
    Silverstein has hired Tishman Construction Corporation, a privately held construction manager, to resurrect the new Tower 1, along with Towers 3 and 4. Tishman, currently hired by the Port Authority, began breaking ground for Tower 1 in early 2008.
    The 102-story Tower 1, on the Northwest Corner of the WTC site, will be the tallest building in North America at 1776-feet tall. Similar to the Twin Towers, it will consist of an observation deck that will have a 360-degree view of the city and a restaurant just underneath, along with 2.6 million square feet — more than 70 floors — of office space and broadcast and antennae facilities. Owned by the Port Authority, it will be managed by the Durst Organization, a private real estate company. The building will be LEED gold certified and its base will be protected by concrete and steel. It will resemble a glass obelisk, similar to the Washington Monument in Washington D.C.
    Tower 2, a high-rise planned for construction at 200 Greenwich Street, will consist of a glazed crystalline form and diamond-shaped top. The goal is to “create a bold addition to the New York skyline,” according to Silverstein Properties’ written description of the site.
    Inside, Tower 2 will have 60 office floors, five levels of retail, four trading floors and a sky-lobby. The interior will match the building’s outer geometrical design.
    “It accommodates the primary vertical circulation, with high-speed shuttle elevators rising to an intermediate sky lobby where the upper floors are served by two further banks of elevators,” says the description.
    Tower 3, which will be bounded by Greenwich, Church, Dey and Cortlandt Streets, will be opposite the proposed WTC Memorial and Cultural Center. It will contain 54 office floors and five retail levels.
    “All corners of the tower are column-free to ensure that occupiers of the office levels have unimpeded 360 degree panoramic views of New York,” according to Silverstein Properties.
    Tower 4, which will be minimalist in design, will consist of 56 office floors, one-third of which will house the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey headquarters. Silverstein Properties will lease out the remainder of the office space to commercial tenants.
    Tower 4 will also face the future Memorial and have entrances on Cortlandt, Liberty and Greenwich Streets. Its lobby will have panoramic views of the World Trade Center site. The Tower will have floor-to-ceiling windows made out of composite glass and a retail area on the ground floor (referred to as a “podium”) that “[will] enliven the immediate urban environment at pedestrian street level as part of the redevelopment efforts of Downtown New York,” according to Silverstein Properties. Tishman broke ground on the Tower 3 site on July 14.
    The Memorial Center, also on Greenwich Street, will be erected on the footprint of the Twin Towers to commemorate the 9/11 victims. The design, entitled “Reflecting Absence,” was created by Israeli architect Michael Arad, who won the competition to undertake the project. The National September 11th Museum will occupy three floors, mostly underneath the park. The grounds of the Center will consist of an eight-acre park with waterfalls whose edges will carry the 3,000 names of those who perished on 9/11 and at the 1993 WTC bombing. The memorial “will help facilitate an encounter with both the enormity of the loss and the triumph of the human spirit that are at the heart of 9/11,” according to

  9. #5259


    They were even careful not to say for certain whether they were looking at the prow or the stern of the vessel, though the fanlike array of beams seemed to suggest that the aft (rear) portion of the ship was exposed. Mr. Pappalardo said the whole vessel may have been two or three times longer than the portion found.
    They'll probably find the rest when they start excavating over at the Deutsche Bank site next year.

  10. #5260
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002


    Speculation, and Clues, About Unearthed Ship


    An 1802 depiction of the Brooklyn shore.

    A 1797 map showing the spot in Lower Manhattan
    where a vessel was found on Tuesday.

    Two days after construction workers discovered the keel of a centuries-old wooden ship at the site of the new World Trade Center, New Yorkers continued to speculate about what might have caused the mysterious vessel to come to rest amid layers of landfill.

    Hundreds of readers weighed in about the ship on the City Room blog. Some fretted that it might have ferried human cargo. Others were convinced that it was a whaling ship. The whaling enthusiasts were confident asserted that a metal arc found on the keel, not far from some loose bricks, might have once belonged to a fire-powered fixture that helped sailors process blubber.

    Meanwhile, city officials said Thursday that additional clues had surfaced since the keel was found Tuesday at a site bounded by Liberty Street to the north and Cedar Street to the south.

    Among the new finds: an anchor located near the ship, and some spikes that might help pinpoint the age of the vessel.

    Archaeologists who examined the ship were confident that it was deliberately placed in the ground as landfill back when Lower Manhattan was expanding in several directions.

    They say New Yorkers threw anything they no longer needed into these cavernous projects, from discarded cherry pits to old shoes and animal horns.

    Amanda Sutphin, the director of archaeology for the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission, said she was confident believed that the vessel had been retired in the late 18th century because maps as far back as 1797 show a newly created Washington Street weaving its way over the site where the ship was unearthed. “By 1800, there was a street on top of where it was found,” Ms. Sutphin said.

    Doug Mackey, the archaeologist for the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, said dendrochronology, a branch of science that uses tree rings to date wood, could pinpoint the age of the ship with some precision. He said he was skeptical of the view that the metal arc and bricks suggested a whaling ship, speculating that they could simply be remnants from an ordinary cooking platform in a galley. “If it was a whaling ship,” he said, “it would have been much more extensive.”

    The discovery also continued to spawn humor.

    “Somewhere at some law firm,” one reader wrote, “someone has been tasked to determine who owes how much for the dock slip for 300 years’ time.”

  11. #5261


    East West Connector

    Remainder of the old wall broken up.

  12. #5262


    Flared top. Final height?

  13. #5263


    Hope for ground zero
    Last Updated: 5:06 AM, July 26, 2010
    Posted: 1:19 AM, July 26, 2010
    It's taken nearly nine years, but large-scale commercial redevelopment of the World Trade Center site is tantalizingly close to taking off. But everything depends on the outcome of two ongoing, parallel negotiations involving the Port Authority -- neither of which is a sure thing.

    The Port Authority's 1 WTC is pushing skyward, and Larry Silverstein's 4 WTC should start major construction soon. The towers together would restore about half of the Twin Towers' 8.8 million square feet of office space.

    It's less than the city needs but more than political and bureaucratic inertia once seemed likely to bring forth -- and, if successful, would keep hope alive that two more great towers planned for the site will go up eventually.

    PA Executive Director Chris Ward is backing agreements with developers to ensure that 4 WTC rises and to make 1 WTC viable. But either deal could be undone by the PA's New Jersey side or by rogue commissioners from either state.

    The more critical issue involves 4 WTC. Without a deal for the PA to provide full "backstop" financing (i.e., loan guarantees), Silverstein can't build the $1.8 billion, 61-story, state-of-the-art structure above its current, six-story steel base.

    The PA and Silverstein announced a tentative agreement in March, with a binding contract to be signed within 120 days -- but indications now are that a final deal won't happen by the PA's next board meeting, on Aug. 5.

    Ominously, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has sounded less than fully committed to the plan -- and one PA commissioner, Henry R. Silverman (a New York appointee and until recently the agency's vice chairman), has grumbled that the PA can't afford it.

    Even a delay could prove devastating. Silverstein hopes to finish 4 WTC by 2013, when New York's aged office stock will seem even more antiquated to companies requiring state-of-the art facilities. The project's 1.8 million square feet will help meet the inevitable demand.

    But Silverstein must convert $1 billion in Liberty Bonds (now in escrow) into a construction loan by year's end to meet the 2013 target -- or to build at all. (The tax-exempt bonds would let him borrow more cheaply; the PA backstop would protect borrowers against default.)

    Yet he can't sell the bonds until the PA agrees to the financing terms. And given the history between the sides, nothing should be mistaken for done until it's done.

    At 1 WTC, the PA and Douglas Durst are trying to hammer out a partnership arrangement, announced last month, to give him a $100 million stake in the $2.6 billion project. That would "brand" the long-troubled tower in the name of one of the city's most successful private developers and make him responsible for leasing and managing it.

    Durst would have a far stronger chance of making 1 WTC commercially viable; the PA has neither heart nor skill for the task. But, the New York Observer reported, the PA wants the right to boot Durst simply if it doesn't like how things are going. Such a prenup hardly suggests confidence and could end up putting the PA at war with Durst, as it's long been with Silverstein.

    Private-developer expertise is needed because nearly all of 1 WTC's 2.6 million square feet are up for grabs. The oft-published assertion that a federal agency and a state agency are "committed" to 1 million square feet is false: Neither lease has been signed three years since they were first announced.

    Yet private-sector interest in 1 WTC is strong. As I first reported, Bank of New York Mellon is considering moving its headquarters there. So is Conde Nast, a tenant at Durst's 4 Times Square.

    Durst could also help break the logjam with the larger of the stalled government-agency leases. The Federal General Services Administration, which would take 600,000 square feet, happens to be a tenant at his 1133 Sixth Ave.

    The PA must overcome internal bickering and complete the deals with Silverstein and Durst. Otherwise, the "World Trade Center" will consist of a sprawling memorial and one lonely, near-empty office building amid empty lots.

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  14. #5264

  15. #5265
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    Everything looks squashed + fat

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