View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.04%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.65%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    48 25.00%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.46%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.85%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #736


    Quote Originally Posted by BPC
    I've seen them shining every night since Sunday night. I assume this is being done for the entire week of September 11. I haven't walked over to see where the lights are set up this year; past years were in the lot in front of the cinemas (soon to be the site of the Goldman Sachs HQ). I will walk the dog over that way tonight and check it out.
    From the LMDC's August, 2004 letter to 9/11 families:

    Our observance of September 11th will take place at the World Trade Center site in the morning.
    Parents and grandparents will play a large part in this year’s ceremony by reading the names of the victims
    while music will provide a backdrop throughout the program. The ceremony will pause at four moments –
    two to mark the times that each plane hit the towers and two to mark each times when the towers fell. The
    first moment of silence will be at 8:46 a.m. and as always, houses of worship will be encouraged to toll their
    bells at that time. While the names are read, family members will be able to descend the ramp to the lowest
    level of the site where they may lay flowers. This ceremony will conclude at approximately noon. However,
    the site will remain open to families until 4:00 p.m.

    At sundown, the “Tribute in Light” will again return for one night, as a tribute to the memory of those
    lost and a symbol of the spirit of our community. Just last month, the Lower Manhattan Development
    Corporation purchased the lights so we can illuminate them annually each September 11th.

    The letter:

  2. #737


    Does anyone know what's going on with the Fulton St. Transit Center? I thought that demolition of the basura (i.e., Spanish for garbage) on the site would have started by now. I'd love to see the basura across the street from it on the west side of B'Way torn down also, but supposedly, only the horrific World of Golf building will meet the wrecking ball! Es una lastima!

  3. #738
    Senior Member Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Fairfax, VA


    The "Tribute in Light" is spectacular. First time I saw it, I couldn't believe how appropriate and beautiful it was. I thank those people of vision who made this happen, and who are continuing to make this happen.

    One night each year. Worth the wait.

  4. #739


    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer
    Does anyone know what's going on with the Fulton St. Transit Center? I thought that demolition of the basura (i.e., Spanish for garbage) on the site would have started by now. I'd love to see the basura across the street from it on the west side of B'Way torn down also, but supposedly, only the horrific World of Golf building will meet the wrecking ball! Es una lastima!
    DEIS Chapter 4: Construction Methods and Activities

    The following passage from the document should answer your question:

    The proposed approach to construction
    staging assumes that construction of the Dey Street Passageway, the Dey Street Access Building, and
    certain minor project components (such as new street entrances, new elevators, and 23 station
    rehabilitation) would occur first, commencing from outlying areas to the east and west, inwards to the
    Entry Facility. In late 2005, it is assumed that the buildings on the site of the proposed Entry Facility
    would be deconstructed1 and the site cleared. As the structures are removed, construction would start on
    the Entry Facility.
    NYatKnight: Those are great night shots. Did you use a tripod?

    In person, the Tribite in Light doesn't look quite as dramatic as those photos.

  5. #740
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    New York City



    Larry Silverstein Gives NY1 A Status Update On WTC Site Rebuilding

    SEPTEMBER 08TH, 2004

    The developer of the World Trade Center site has visited the site several times a week for the past three years, and lately his visits come more frequently as the site continues to take shape. NY1’s Amanda Farinacci tagged along for one of his visits, and filed this report.

    “Make sure it's water-tight! We don't want it coming in!”

    Words of caution from Larry Silverstein, the developer of the World Trade Center site, for two window washers charged with cleaning the windows of what will be the site's first new office tower. Nearly 600 workers report to 7 World Trade every day for an aggressive rebuilding project that's way ahead of schedule.

    “Originally the floors were supposed to be cycled a floor every five days, and we're now erecting a floor every four days,” Silverstein says. “It's going faster than anticipated - significantly faster by 20 percent - and so that's very, very good.”

    The building is the work of David Childs, and it will be far different from its predecessor. For one thing, it will top off at 52 floors instead of 47.

    For another, a special device called a spandrel will sit at the base of each glass section and collect the sun's rays, reflecting back to give the building a unique look.

    “As the sun’s rays hit the blue spandrel, it will be reflected up onto the glass itself and behind the glass, because the glass actually projects below the spandrel section,” Silverstein says. “The result will be to give the appearance of a blue hue as coming from within, so it will look as if there's a bluish cast to this building, as if it's coming from within the building itself.”

    The fast-paced project hit an obstacle this summer when Silverstein learned his maximum insurance award would be $3.5 billion, not $7 billion. At one point, he wasn't allowed inside the courtroom because he spoke publicly about the case during the trial.

    Even though he still faces another round of litigation for the chance at more money, Silverstein says he's still surprised by the first verdict.

    “What's needed here to build out the Trade Center is going to be approximately $7 billion, and therefore not to have access to that money makes the process much more difficult,” he says. “It will take significantly longer than it otherwise could have taken.”

    Silverstein is in the process of applying for Liberty Bonds, and says no matter what, the process will move forward.

    And it has. Demolition is underway for the base floors of 6 World Trade - the former Customs House building - to make way for the Freedom Tower. The cornerstone of that tower, laid July 4th, is now covered ready for massive steel beams that will anchor the site's signature building.

    But is rebuilding moving too fast?

    “We have here a blight on the urban landscape, and at the same time as we must pay enormous respect to those who've lost their lives here and never forget what's happened to the families that are surviving, we also have to recognize the importance of rebuilding because we lost 100,000 jobs here,” he says. “Those jobs have to be put back.”

    Silverstein is already in talks with several possible tenants for the building's anchor floor, and he says he's confident he'll have no trouble attracting more as the building continues to go up.

    “We are talking now to a number of tenants,” he says. “Now that the building is clearly happening and people begin to realize that this is going to be a fate accompli, and that it's a major and a significant building, the level of activity has increased significantly, and that's very gratifying.”

    Silverstein will attend services at the site on the third anniversary, and he's planning a ceremonial laying of the last steel beam that will top off the building's 52nd floor sometime later this month.

    - Amanda Farinacci

  6. #741


    [quote="ZippyTheChimp"][quote="londonlawyer"]Does anyone know what's going on with the Fulton St. Transit Center?....
    The following passage from the document should answer your question:


    Thanks for the info.

  7. #742
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Manhattan - South Village


    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    NYatKnight: Those are great night shots. Did you use a tripod?
    In person, the Tribite in Light doesn't look quite as dramatic as those photos.
    Thanks. I never have the forethought to use a tripod, always just balanced on the closest ledge or garbage can. The last one in particular definitely has some exposure help, but I did that because my initial shots didn't seem as dramatic as what I saw in person. :wink:

    Last night they looked white, without any blue tint, and cool as hell through the layers of clouds.

  8. #743


    More from those whackos at the Regional Plan...


    Doubt shed on WTC site offices’ marketability

    September 10, 2004

    While state and city officials have advocated replacing most of the office space lost in the destruction of the World Trade Center, an influential civic group issued a report yesterday assailing that approach.

    The Regional Plan Association called on decision-makers to abandon their plan to create 10 million square feet of commercial space, and instead diversify the site with affordable housing and more cultural buildings.

    The report, endorsed by a coalition of some 30 nonprofit groups, echoes the views of some independent analysts who suggest the local economy and downtown's market conditions -- still depressed by a vacancy rate of 13 percent -- will not be able to support a glut of new space.

    "We're calling for flexibility," said Pedra Todorovich, an RPA associate planner who is the report's principal author. "You might need that much office space ... but you don't want to straightjacket the World Trade Center site to a program that may not be filled."

    The report also suggested the Port Authority, which owns the World Trade Center, should re-examine its lease with developer Larry Silverstein, whose loss at the hands of insurers could limit his ability to build five towers planned for the site.

    Critics say Silverstein's difficulties in attracting occupants for Freedom Tower, a new skyscraper, and 7 World Trade Center -- an adjacent project -- highlight troubles that may arise in trying to fill the goal of 10 million square feet.

    City officials and members of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the city-state agency spearheading the rebuilding, reacted negatively to the association's findings.

    LMDC president Kevin Rampe and Daniel Doctoroff, the city's deputy mayor for economic development, rejected any curtailment of the square footage. Both men asserted that the city must proceed with the existing rebuilding plans because there are few other developable sites left in lower Manhattan.

    Doctoroff in particular projected the city would need 68 million square feet of new space between 2005 and 2025. That rationale, he said, has supported the city's aggressive push to redevelop the Far West Side and Downtown Brooklyn.

    Responding to the RPA report directly, Doctoroff, who recently clashed with the civic group over its objection to a proposed stadium for the Jets on the West Side, said, "They have a habit of looking in the rearview mirror rather than looking out into the future."

    The report did offer praise to redevelopment officials for the quick-paced cleanup of the site after the disaster, and it cheered plans to improve lower Manhattan's transportation network with a new PATH station and a revamped Fulton Street Transit Center.

    Rampe said the new transportation infrastructure will help create what he termed a "21st century business district."

    "Ten million square feet probably wouldn't be enough for what would be a marquee address," Rampe said.

  9. #744
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Manhattan - South Village


    September 10, 2004

    Visitor Center Planned Opposite Ground Zero


    It will be five years before the World Trade Center memorial opens, and now there is no place around ground zero - with the possible exception of St. Paul's Chapel - where visitors, neighbors, survivors and victims' families can gather to mourn, to share and to learn.

    This leaves first-time pilgrims especially disoriented, facing a steel fence with almost no idea of what they are looking at or which buildings stood where, unless they fall in with a self-appointed guide or consult information panels on the fence.

    Yesterday, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation extended its support - but not any money so far - to the Tribute Visitors Center being planned for a storefront at 120 Liberty Street, opposite ground zero and next to Ladder Company 10 and Engine Company 10.

    "Visitors are now looking at an empty construction site," said Lee Ielpi, vice president of the September 11th Families Association, which is organizing the center. "Our goal is to create a memorable experience by connecting visitors with the 9/11 community." Mr. Ielpi's son, Jonathan, a firefighter, died in the attack. The association's president, Marian Fontana, lost her husband, Dave, a lieutenant in the Fire Department.

    Gov. George E. Pataki said, in a statement issued by his office, "When Lee Ielpi approached me about the idea, I agreed to it immediately, because there needs to be an interim place of solace and reflection for families and survivors."

    Besides displaying information about the attacks of 2001 and 1993, the center could provide docents to guide visitors around the site and would offer family members a place to meet, said Kevin M. Rampe, the development corporation president.

    But Mr. Rampe told the board that the association needed to do "much more work" on organizing before it could be considered eligible for financing. The corporation might provide up to $3 million, to match money raised from other sources.

    At yesterday's meeting, the board approved three contracts in connection with the impending dismantling of the former Deutsche Bank building at 130 Liberty Street, which it acquired last week, and approved the extension of its own lease at 1 Liberty Plaza through 2010, indicating that the agency intends to be in business quite a while.

    Mr. Rampe and Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff, a board member, also responded to a new assessment of the Lower Manhattan planning process by the Regional Plan Association, which questioned the state's commitment to accommodate 10 million square feet of office space on the trade center site.

    "The high office-space vacancy rate and uncertain market outlook argues for a further diversification of the program, by designating buildings currently planned for office space to civic, cultural, hotel, housing or other uses," the group said.

    Mr. Doctoroff said, "I don't know at the end of the day whether 10 million is the right number or 8 million or 12." But he added that the city had estimated a need for 68 million square feet of new office space between 2005 and 2025. With 10 million square feet in Lower Manhattan, he said, "you're really only filling a small part of that need."

    Later, another civic group, New York New Visions, criticized the lack of a plan for the underground infrastructure at the site and the absence of design guidelines, saying the redevelopment might turn into "an uncoordinated mishmash."

    Mr. Rampe replied, "All it says is that we should be working on the things we are working on right now." He said the master plan was not being diluted in any way.

    Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

  10. #745
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003


    I think they are right. I think they will find it difficult to fill all that office space. More SHOULD be given to residential, but that gets difficult in that residential buildings are not the easiest to layout. Unless, of course, you don't mind a long skinny apartment OR one with no windows.

    Most office buildings can be built as huge square areas as a goofd deal of their SF do not NEED windows or access to the rest of the building (hallways). As soon as you start subdividing these areas into residential spaces, you face a lot of problems.

    As for the reason for changing, again I say they are right. There would be a glut introduced by all this office space. But it depends on how you look at it. I am not aware of, despite the vacancy rate, any vouildings really reducing any of their rental rates for larger corporate spaces. Our company is still trying to get a good deal on the lease for our building with an additional allotment on the floor, but the buildings "owner" is reluctant to provide anything more without a HEFTY increase in lease costs.

    Adding office space at Ground Zero might not be as marketable as residential simply because companies are not as vorcious as residential renters right now.

    Question is this. Aside from converting an ENTIRE building from one to the other, what other FEASABLE solution can you guys see for this?

  11. #746
    Forum Veteran
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    Jan 2002
    West Harlem


    Residential isn't permitted on the site anyway. I think a good bet would be to put the hotel in the upper portion of one of the buildings .

  12. #747
    Forum Veteran
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    Feb 2003
    New York City


    Business Week

    What Will Rise At Ground Zero?

    Politics, Architecture,
    and the Rebuilding of New York

    By Paul Goldberger
    Random House; 273 pp; $24.95

    For most of us grappling with the enormity of September 11, the question of what should arise where the World Trade Center once stood had a simple answer: We wanted something big, something beautiful, and something that would reflect the vibrancy of New York while still respecting the nation's memories of that fateful day. Now that a master plan for Ground Zero has been adopted, designs chosen for its memorial and transit hub, and symbolic ground broken for its signature skyscraper, the Freedom Tower, those desires could actually come to pass.

    But don't count on it. In his deftly written narrative of this massive project, Up from Zero: Politics, Architecture, and the Rebuilding of New York, Paul Goldberger warns that the public may not get what it wants. What happens at Ground Zero will have as much to do with the wishes of dealmaking politicians, revenue-hungry bureaucrats, and entrepreneurial-minded developers as with the taste and desires of the populace. And that's true even for a populace that took the time to educate itself and make its voice heard in innumerable ways in the aftermath of the Trade Center's destruction.

    As you would expect from the architecture critic for The New Yorker and formerly for The New York Times, Goldberger devotes much of his book to an evaluation of the plans of the architects who hoped to put their stamp on Ground Zero. The presence of such luminaries as Daniel Libeskind -- who won the competition for the design -- Rafael Viñoly, Norman Foster, and Santiago Calatrava, among others, may have marked a high point in New York's design history. In a city where aesthetics usually takes a backseat to commerce, the intense interest of politicians, businesspeople, civic activists, and ordinary citizens helped ensure -- at least for a while -- that "architecture was given a seat at the table that it had never before had," writes Goldberger. The author details many of the symposiums, exhibits, and town meetings that took place after September 11, as New Yorkers struggled to figure out the next step for the sadly empty 16 acres a few blocks from Wall Street. Should the area contain a replica of the Twin Towers? How about a community in the Jane Jacobs mode, with a lively mix of offices, stores, and apartments? Or, as the final resting place of thousands, maybe it should contain nothing at all?

    But with the stakes so high, it seems that art was in no position to trump commerce. At best, Goldberger believes, the two have come to a draw. He reminds us that the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, the agency that owned the Trade Center, and the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., the New York State unit founded to oversee rebuilding, never promised that any of the wonderful designs paraded before the public in 2002 would actually be built. Out of what was dubbed the Innovative Design Study, the authorities really wanted only a master plan -- a layout of where skyscrapers and other elements would go. Crucially, that plan was driven by the Port Authority's need to recreate 10 million square feet of office space lost in the attacks. And the Trade Center's leaseholder, Larry Silverstein, is still on the hook for $120 million in annual rent.

    Through some crafty political maneuvering, Silverstein's own architect, David Childs, ended up modifying Libeskind's design of the Freedom Tower in a bid to make it more commercial -- so much so that it scarcely resembles the proposed building that dazzled the world two years ago. "As a complete work of design, the Freedom Tower had all the defects of an unnatural hybrid," writes Goldberger, who holds Libeskind's original in high regard. "It is certainly not a retrograde piece of aesthetics, but it hardly seems to break the new ground that was hoped for, either." Meanwhile, in a development subsequent to the book's completion, relations between Silverstein and Libeskind have fallen so low that Libeskind has sued for $843,750 that he claims he is owed for design work.

    Although the entire site will probably not be built out for decades, Goldberger leaves us with a fairly depressing picture so far -- of mediocre design and lackluster urban planning. But nobody knows what the effect will be when construction is finished. Even Goldberger admits that the Twin Towers, unloved and nearly empty at first, wormed their way into New Yorkers' hearts. The dramatic Windows on the World restaurant, the King Kong remake that featured the buildings, and daredevil Philippe Petit, who walked a tightrope between the towers, all helped to humanize a work originally perceived as cold, monumental, and out-of-step with the city's traditional architecture. Perhaps the lesson here, which Goldberger only hints at, is that what makes a building memorable and important are the uses -- silly or sublime -- and the feelings that people finally attach to whatever gets built. And that is something yet to be seen.

    By Robert McNatt

  13. #748


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
    I think they are right. I think they will find it difficult to fill all that office space. More SHOULD be given to residential, but that gets difficult in that residential buildings are not the easiest to layout.
    The WTC site is hardly the site to put residential space. People have this conception that NY is all buildings and office space. It is not. Relatively small areas of the city are commercial or business districts. Speaking of Downtown specifically, there is basically NO such space left to build on except the WTC site. For that reason alone I think the city is right to push for office development on site, even if it took 40 years to fully build out.

    It always amazes me when people push strongly for housing there (WTC) when there are so many more areas in the city where housing can and needs to be built.

    Now if you want to add residential space on top of the already planned towers, that's one thing. But that wouldn't be the kind of housing the advocates are pushing for.

  14. #749


    There are more WTC renderings at the LMDC website...

  15. #750


    Sept 11, 2004

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