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Thread: WTC Tower One - by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill

  1. #106

    Default modern...schmodern

    Harkening back to Modern Architecture class, from my senior year of college (coffee, slides, cute girls)...I'd have to say that as dumb as the lattice work may be, at least it serves to emphasice the monolithic building that's supporting it...The memorial is, by way of the lattice work, an extension of TRADE (as in WTC), rather than the other way around...as it were, origionally.

    If building is the healed wound (replaced office space), the lattice work is the scar (space that was, literally, once occupied).
    It's no wonder why I think 'Modern' architecture is a load of BS, if this is the way it is discussed academically, (no offense intended JMC, I hope you enjoyed the girls and the coffee).

    Could it be a representation of the American credo, 'Walk softly and carry a big stick.' (in this case a hollow threat)?

  2. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanni111
    Christian where did you get that rendering from? Thats not the new design right? It looks exactly the same as the old design just from another angle.
    While its basically the same shape (Libeskind has been fighting to keep it that way), what the drawing shows are the design changes made to the skyscraper itself, including the skin. Libeskind has been willing to change that much, but doesn't want anybody to tamper with his spire!

    As far as the height of the occupied building, that remains left to Silverstein to decide, Libeskind can draw what he likes. But if the spire itself does rise to 1,776 in his plan, the building would have to rise also to fit his plan.

    I only realized a few days ago exactly what he meant by the building echoing the Statue of Liberty, and it really does resemble the upper torso with the raised torch. Looking at it from that perspective, its almost as silly as any of the other amatuer proposals submitted by the public. And the current Statue of Liberty doesn't need a replacement.





    AS far as Childs design is concerned, I'd take his design over Libeskind's simply because it will be more of a towering, single structure - not a building and spire embraced. I think in effect what you would have is something like the skyscraper placed inside Libeskind's spire.

    I hope we at least get to see what Childs was proposing before the hybrid.

  3. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanni111
    Christian where did you get that rendering from? Thats not the new design right? It looks exactly the same as the old design just from another angle.
    Stern scanned it from the Post.

  4. #109

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    yanni111 wrote:
    Christian where did you get that rendering from? Thats not the new design right? It looks exactly the same as the old design just from another angle.

    Stern scanned it from the Post.
    NyGuy scanned it from the Post. ops: ops:

  5. #110

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    Generally I dislike Childs work enough that I cannot give him the benefit of the doubt that he has designed a more impressive building. If his glass stops 300 feet and 18 stories shorter than Libeskind he's going to have to have an awfully impressive lattice work to make up for it.

  6. #111

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    Good article...technical details:

    http://www.observer.com/pages/observatory.asp

    In fact, according to sources, S.O.M. was as dissatisfied with these as the Libes-kind camp had been with Mr. Childs’ design.

    For one thing, they were worried about money. Structural engineering programming had not been carried out on either tower, but it seemed to them that an asymmetrical tower would require immense internal structural steel to resist the lateral movement of the wind at its tremendous height, especially near the top. They said the tendency of an off-center spire would be to shear off the building, unless it were rooted firmly into the central core of the building. It is difficult to build a spire on top of the building that is rooted firmly into its central core but stands off to the side. Such considerations not only made the structural guts of the building appear to be extremely expensive—a consideration for their insurance-proceeds-starved client, Mr. Silverstein—but could bulk up the centers of each floor, leaving too little surrounding space to create office space attractive enough to compensate for the construction costs.

    S.O.M. supporters are disdainful of Studio Daniel Libeskind’s ability to develop office towers. If Mr. Libeskind’s lack of experience building them is part of it, the greater part of it undoubtedly comes from S.O.M.’s own unparalleled productivity in the "supertall" category around the world

  7. #112

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    Wow! That article gave the most details of the towers we have seen so far...

    A week later, David Childs presented his tower designs in a meeting to Mr. Libeskind. Mr. Libeskind, by all accounts, was disappointed. The asymmetry in the design was not obvious from many vantage points elsewhere on the site. The twisting tower did not remain flush on its western face with the western slurry wall of Ground Zero. And the shape of the top was symmetrical looking—a vast square lattice-work crown incorporating four television antennae.

    Mr. Libeskind’s design team went to work on a series of images of buildings that formed a sort of spectrum: on the left, the original Libeskind design. With each successive take, the design appeared to morph into the David Childs tower; the eighth design, at the right end of the spectrum, was Mr. Childs’.......

    Mr. Childs seeks to remake the skyline with a muscular obelisk of Gothamesque beauty and Babel proportions. The feeling is of an epic strength that cannot possibly have sprung from the abject destruction wrought by nine men with box cutters on two airplanes: At 2,000 feet, it is higher than the tower proposed by Mr. Libeskind. That tower, rather than to remake Ground Zero as a bigger and sturdier version of what preceded it, contains the images of destruction and creation in its shard-like sculptured buildings surrounding the memorial pit at its center, anchored in the slurry walls of the excavated World Trade Center.



    * I really want to see Childs' design now, before it changes...

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy
    Mr. Childs seeks to remake the skyline with a muscular obelisk of Gothamesque beauty and Babel proportions. The feeling is of an epic strength that cannot possibly have sprung from the abject destruction wrought by nine men with box cutters on two airplanes:
    Finally. This is in my opinion what Libeskind totally misses. The skyscraper that goes there should be something of strength....why design the tallest building in the world to look like broken glass?

    I hope Childs wins out.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy
    I only realized a few days ago exactly what he meant by the building echoing the Statue of Liberty, and it really does resemble the upper torso with the raised torch. Looking at it from that perspective, its almost as silly as any of the other amatuer proposals submitted by the public. And the current Statue of Liberty doesn't need a replacement.

    At the CB1 meeting last spring, Libeskind better explained what he meant by this. It's not the Freedom Tower that is supposed to echo the Statue of Liberty, it's the spiraling of all 5 buildings that echoes the torch. That might be just as silly, but that's the symbolism he was going for. I have to say, I would never have compared the two in a million years, though I do like the spiral. However, I don't think the Freedom Tower has to look exactly as Libeskind designed it to achieve the same symbolism.

    The Childs building sounds interesting, maybe even better, but so different from the Libeskind's that it seems there was no attempt at all to use the "concept and schematic design" of his tower (as was originally agreed upon).

  10. #115

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    Revised designs of the Freedom Tower are to be unveiled in December-- just saw it on the news.

  11. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYatKNIGHT
    The Childs building sounds interesting, maybe even better, but so different from the Libeskind's that it seems there was no attempt at all to use the "concept and schematic design" of his tower (as was originally agreed upon).
    From the article it sounds as though there was an attempt from Childs, but we would have to see the tower to make that exact determination.

    The two sides agreed that their joint design would have to somehow mark the 1,776-foot height that was a selling point of Mr. Libeskind’s original site design; that the "spiral feature" of the design should be preserved; that the Freedom Tower ought to read in some way as asymmetrical; and that the shape of the building would in some way reference the Statue of Liberty, as in Mr. Libeskind’s original design. But both sides already believed their separate designs for towers achieved those objectives.

  12. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhstockton
    Revised designs of the Freedom Tower are to be unveiled in December-- just saw it on the news.
    Looks like we'll have to wait again....

    New design for WTC's Freedom Tower to be unveiled
    Pataki outlines fast-track redevelopment timetable


    A revised design for the Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site will be unveiled in mid-December, Gov. George Pataki said Thursday as he outlined a redevelopment timetable that also calls for PATH commuter rail service to lower Manhattan to resume next month.

    In remarks prepared for the Association for a Better New York/Downtown Lower Manhattan Association luncheon, Pataki said PATH service from New Jersey to the trade center site would resume Nov. 23, a month ahead of schedule.

    The inaugural trip will be made by the same eight cars that were the last to leave the station on Sept. 11, 2001, taking with them commuters fleeing the terror attack, he said.

    The revised design for the Freedom Tower will be released Dec. 15, Pataki said. The plan is a collaboration between Daniel Libeskind, who created the original concept for the 1,776-foot tower, and David Childs, who was hired by leaseholder Larry Silverstein to act as lead architect on the detailed design.

    The tower deadline appears to serve as an impetus for the architects, to work out artistic differences that emerged in recent weeks. The two met earlier this week and promised to work together on the project.

    Pataki, who previously voiced support for the original Freedom Tower design, reiterated that position in his remarks Thursday.

    “Now that the plan for the site has been refined, it’s clear that Daniel Libeskind’s compelling vision emerged not only intact, but improved,” he said in prepared remarks.

    Also next month, eight proposals for a memorial to Sept. 11 victims will go on public view at the Winter Garden. The plans, winnowed from a large field by a memorial jury, will be displayed the week of Nov. 17.

    Pataki also said a pedestrian bridge over Vesey Street will open Nov. 22. The bridge will connect Battery Park City and the World Financial Center to the trade center and downtown.

    The governor promised to undertake quality-of-life improvements in lower Manhattan as well.

    The area around the New York Stock Exchange, now filled with concrete security barriers, will get a facelift under a plan to be unveiled next month. The plan, to be completed by spring, calls for more greenery and for security measures that blend into the surroundings.

  13. #118
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    Heh, I already posted that on the "Ground Zero Developments" thread. Literally three minutes before you.

  14. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyo
    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy
    Mr. Childs seeks to remake the skyline with a muscular obelisk of Gothamesque beauty and Babel proportions. The feeling is of an epic strength that cannot possibly have sprung from the abject destruction wrought by nine men with box cutters on two airplanes:
    Finally. This is in my opinion what Libeskind totally misses. The skyscraper that goes there should be something of strength....why design the tallest building in the world to look like broken glass?

    I hope Childs wins out.
    Its too bad that we won't get to see Childs design as it is now, but a trimmed down, Libeskind-like version. Pataki strikes yet again...

  15. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy
    NY Observer
    Mr. Childs seeks to remake the skyline with a muscular obelisk of Gothamesque beauty and Babel proportions. The feeling is of an epic strength that cannot possibly have sprung from the abject destruction wrought by nine men with box cutters on two airplanes: At 2,000 feet, it is higher than the tower proposed by Mr. Libeskind.

    From the NY Times:
    Mr. Childs has proposed a more monolithic and symmetrical structure that would twist and taper as it rose, culminating in antennas surrounded by an open framework.
    Not to beat a dead horse, but from everything we've heard so far, it sounds as though 2,000 ft may have been a structural height in Childs' design. Libeskind wants the tower to top out at 1,776 ft rather than have a deck at that height...

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