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Thread: WTC Transit Hub - by Santiago Calatrava

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    Also about thirty feet shorter -- to maximize distance from the street.

    Still looks great -- but without the glass in the ribs the "wings" will offer no protection from the elements whatsoever.
    Not sure how the height is affecting proximity to the street.

  2. #212

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    ^ He means shorter in length.

  3. #213

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    How can they plan a real groundbreaking for September if the contract has not even been advertised?

    This will be like the Freedom Tower Cornerstone ceremony.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern
    Oddly enough the new design is much better. I feel the additional mullions make it look stronger, bolder, taller, and more refined.
    I agree. It looks more solid and robust, and thus more dramatic. I loved the original design, but I couldn't help but think that it looked a bit too ethereal, if that makes sense.

    In any case, this is still a welcome departure from New York's prolific boxy architecture. Still utterly sublime.

  5. #215

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    More renderings from the Port Authority website:






  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLOZ Link5
    I agree. It looks more solid and robust, and thus more dramatic. I loved the original design, but I couldn't help but think that it looked a bit too ethereal, if that makes sense.
    It more than makes sense. You hit the nail right on the head.

  7. #217

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    I actually like the revised one more. The structure gives it more of a continuous, sinuous quality -- like the pier of a gothic cathedral.

  8. #218

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    I've always thought it looked too much like a bristled porcupine, and was quite revelatory of the security-obsessiveness surrounding the whole site, not to mention the contemporary Zeitgeist. The redesign only reinforces that perception.

  9. #219

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    Is anyone else bothered by the fact that this is going to cost $2 billion, but somehow we couldn't come up with the extra $2 billion to secure the Second Avenue Subway, and now it has to be "delayed" for another 2-3 years?

    I realize they don't directly compete for funding. The PATH station is being funded by post-9/11 transit funds, the SAS by the state and MTA. Still....the SAS and ESA actually expand the transit network, while this is just a $2 billion pretty subway station. Don't get me wrong: I love the design. But $2 billion? For a subway station? And that's basically what it is: PATH is merely an IRT subway line that the Port Authority calls a commuter train.

    On top of that, the MTA is doing essentially the same thing at the Fulton Street Transit Center for another billion. I know this is an architecture forum, and I think its important that we care about these things, but does anyone else think we might have priorities mixed up? Or that these projects could be cheaper?

  10. #220

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    I think it's somewhat absurd that this vast terminal is intended, so far, solely for the use of New Jersey commuters, while the Fulton Street Transit Centre is increasingly scaled down and insignificant by comparison. When are New Yorkers going to be able to move around their own city in such glamour as is showered on suburbanites at terminals such as this and Grand Central? Even Penn Station is vastly better designed and maintained than most of the subway system.

  11. #221

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    The Calatrava station is much more than a typical subway station. It will connect PATH, the LIRR and NY subways in a central hub. There will also be retail and other amenities. It will serve as a downtown version of Penn and Grand Central.

  12. #222

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    In that case, debris has a point about this station and the FSTC being somewhat redundant.

    BTW, isn't the LIRR connection essentially still a fantasy at this point?

  13. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by czsz
    In that case, debris has a point about this station and the FSTC being somewhat redundant.

    BTW, isn't the LIRR connection essentially still a fantasy at this point?
    The Feds have budgeted $2 billion towards the LIRR link and the MTA has promised a (not yet specified) significant contribution. The Calatrava station is designed to accomodate a lower LIRR level. I regard the LIRR link as (by far) the most important investment in Lower Manhattan.

  14. #224

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    The Calatrava station will also incorporate the 1/9, E, and R,W trains and will connect to the FSTC. I see them more as a dual portal to a single station.

    Although it does show the PA has much deeper pockets than the MTA does.

  15. #225

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    I view the Calatrava Station and the Fulton Street Station as two different issues. I agree that the Second Avenue Subway should have been built ahead of EITHER of them. (BTW, they DO directly compete for funds, as both stations are being built with 9/11 transit dollars which could have been used to built, at the very least, the downtown mile of the Second Aenue Subway.) Nevrtheless, the Calatrava Station seems far more justified, as it is being built on the ruins of the WTC, which is what the 9/11 money was intended for, after all. The Fulton Street Station, by contrast, is being built on a spot currently occupied by 120 functioning businesses. It is causing destruction, not curing it.

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