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Thread: WTC Transit Hub - by Santiago Calatrava

  1. #481
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Jersey City


    NYguy your right about the sentiment part. Now in the public eye of the heartland and the rest of America, except for the East Coast, were just back to being rude and a cesspool again.
    Last edited by JCMAN320; February 6th, 2007 at 04:47 PM.

  2. #482

    Default there should be away to use prison labor

    Quote Originally Posted by Vengineer View Post
    ... built by slave workers that get paid $4 a day... whereas NY has to deal with unions covering steel workers to sheet metal contractors. No wonder the Freedom Tower has ballooned to $3B.
    it's absurd that the Freedom tower is $3 billion.

  3. #483
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Nairobi Hilton

    Default Not really.

    Time Warner Center was 1.7 billion and FT is much heavier construction.

  4. #484


    prison labor.. interesting idea...

  5. #485
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    Rising Costs Prompt Changes in Transit Hub at Ground Zero

    Published: February 9, 2007

    Faced with construction cost estimates up to $1.2 billion over budget, the Port Authority said yesterday that it would re-engineer, but not fundamentally alter, the birdlike World Trade Center transportation hub designed by Santiago Calatrava.

    The budget was set four years ago at $2.2 billion. The contractor for the project, Phoenix Constructors, now estimates that it will cost from $2.7 billion to $3.4 billion to build the hub, a greatly enlarged version of the current PATH terminal.

    “We have notified Phoenix that costs so substantially above the original budget for the hub are simply unacceptable,” Anthony E. Shorris, the executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, said in a memorandum to the chairman, Anthony R. Coscia.

    Mr. Shorris went on to say that the goal would be to manage the project costs “while preserving the overall integrity of the design, including retaining the signature ‘wing’ component at street level.”

    The authority blamed sharply rising costs of construction materials and labor for the increase. Others are feeling this pinch, too. The trade center memorial was redesigned last year to contain costs.

    But questions have also been raised as to whether Mr. Calatrava’s design itself may be too extravagant for what is, basically, a commuter rail station. (Though the building is also meant to contribute to the memorial environment in which it is set.)

    The hub is also exceptionally complicated. There is the winged, arched roof; the oval-shaped main transit hall; an enormous subterranean mezzanine; passenger platforms; and walkways and mechanical shafts spreading like tentacles. It is to open in phases, beginning in 2009.

    In a statement issued by his office, Mr. Calatrava said he was committed to maintaining the design while managing costs. “I am confident that we can do both,” the statement said.

    Mr. Shorris said in an interview, “If he can work with us — and I take him at his word — I think there are opportunities to deal with some of this without sacrificing the most striking elements of the complex.”

    Asked about the retractable roof, Mr. Shorris said, “The first priority is to go after things that are not visible.” That could mean using elements of the existing terminal or reducing the size of some areas.

    Mr. Shorris reported to Mr. Coscia that the Freedom Tower, the memorial and the new foundations on the east side of the trade center site “remain essentially on budget and on schedule.” He also said that the Phoenix estimates relied on outdated design drawings.

    Phoenix Constructors is a joint venture of Fluor Enterprises, Slattery Skanska, Bovis Lend Lease and Granite Construction Northeast. A telephone call yesterday to a spokesman for Phoenix was not returned.

    Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

  6. #486
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    May 2003
    Jersey City


    P.A. frowns at projected cost overruns for WTC PATH station

    Friday, February 09, 2007
    Star-Ledger Staff

    Port Authority officials balked yesterday at potential cost overruns for the permanent PATH train station at Ground Zero, telling the contractor a revised price of up to $3.4 billion is prohibitive.

    The bistate agency originally forecast the complex, designed by Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, would cost roughly $2.2 billion, but a recent new estimate by Phoenix Constructors now places the price between $2.7 billion and $3.4 billion.

    "We have notified Phoenix that costs so substantially above the original budget for the hub are simply unacceptable, and we will need to consider a range of options to complete the project," wrote Tony Shorris, the Port Authority's executive director, in a memo to the agency's chairman and others.

    Shorris wrote the Port Authority's estimate included cost overruns of up to $300 million. Most of the station's costs are being covered by the federal government. The memo was released to the media.

    Calatrava's station is designed as an icon that resembles a bird taking flight, with a glass and steel atrium and two soaring 150-foot wings, to symbolize Ground Zero's rebirth. The new station would replace the temporary PATH station in December 2009 and be fully operational by September 2010, under an agency timetable.

    It will link PATH to the city's downtown subway lines and ferries.

    One potential way to save hundreds of millions of dollars would be forgoing a plan to have the station's huge glass roof open. Agency officials said at the outset the idea was contingent on costs.

    A message left yesterday seeking comment from a top representative of Phoenix was not returned. Without notification or any public discussion of the deal's merits, Port Authority officials voted behind closed doors in December 2005 to pay Phoenix $1.1 billion to be the project's construction manager and general contractor.

    Discussion of a cost overrun raises unexpected concerns about the PATH station, one of the few plans at Ground Zero that has not met with significant controversy during the protracted rebuilding of the former World Trade Center site after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    "Everything's on the table," said Stephen Sigmund, the Port Authority's chief spokesman, while noting the goal is "cutting costs without changing the basic elements of the design."

    Based in New York, Phoenix Constructors is made up of four firms: Slattery Skanska Inc., Fluor Enterprises Inc., Granite Halmar Construction Co. Inc. and Bovis Lend Lease, LMB Inc.

    Ron Marsico may be reached at or (973) 392-7860

  7. #487


    Quote Originally Posted by mkeit View Post
    What I don't understand is where the 250,000+ people needed to fill the new housing developments will come from?
    The UK.

  8. #488


    im getting tired of the propaganda bullshit. for the sake of my fellow New Yorkers, can they just cut the shit and build. its a ****ing travesty and above all, these politicians should be ashamed of their ****ing selves for allowing such bigotry over such a sensitive event. we want our ****ing buildings and theyre too preoccupied with slapping their names on it like Pataki. they should all be removed and it blows my mind how they allow this to happen. the public is tired of it. this project has been delayed beyond reason. quite frankly i dont even care anymore and im tired with hearing about it.

  9. #489
    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
    East Midtown


    I don't know whether or not this has been posted here, but I came across a fantastic fly through of the station on the PA's website that I hadn't seen before:

    The video really shows how beautiful the great hall and the corridors of the station are.

    Let's just hope further budget cuts don't screw this thing up like how the Fulton Street HUB has been reduced over the years

  10. #490


    This is insanity, just stop this's going to end up as a joke anyway, just put us all out of our misery and cancel the damn project...

  11. #491


    If the politicians and beancounters stopped trying to play the market for materials and labor which are only going up and stop making us make changes in the field, it would save everyone money.

    The transit hub is getting built: materials are ordered and labor is scheduled. It will become a giant boondoggle when all of the political hacks get in the way of progress. Honestly I love it when the hacks 'save money' by redesigning because it sends construction crews to time and materials which makes my overlords cash hand-over-fist, but doesn't truly effect the price of the project because it gets shuffled into other accounting holes. I hate it as a taxpayer but take heart: I make money from your tax dollars but I also pay right back in. It's the circle of life.

    Build as designed the first time, you will always save money. Make changes in the middle of construction it will always cost at least twice what you would have originally paid. Both the Fulton hub and the WTC hub should have been left alone as designed for bid and built as bid.

  12. #492
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    NYC - Financial District


    ^Sounds like common-sense advice. Why don't people follow it more often?

  13. #493


    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    ^Sounds like common-sense advice. Why don't people follow it more often?
    Because planners need to go through things like a Generic Environmental Impact Statement (GEIS) and then have to deal with hiring construction workers and their wages. During this time, cost of materials rises. Construction booms in places like China doesn't exactly help when it comes to needing affordable steel.

  14. #494



    Date: June 18, 2007
    Press Release Number: 52-2007

    Customers are advised that a new temporary pedestrian entrance to the World Trade Center PATH Station opened this morning. The new entrance is part of a series of complex construction plans necessary to continue work on the World Trade Center Transportation Hub, while allowing PATH service to operate uninterrupted to and from the station.

    The new entrance is on Church Street, about 50 feet south of the original one. The original entrance, opened in November 2003 when PATH service resumed to the World Trade Center site, will be demolished to allow for construction work on the World Trade Center Transportation Hub project.

    The temporary Church Street entrance will remain in place until late this year or early in 2008, when a new temporary entrance will open on Vesey Street.

    Creating the temporary entrances will allow the Port Authority to operate PATH service while major construction continues on a new transportation facility around the existing station.

    A slurry wall currently is being built around the PATH Station to provide the foundation for the hub’s below-grade levels.

    The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey operates many of the busiest and most important transportation links in the region. They include John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International, LaGuardia and Teterboro airports; AirTrain JFK and AirTrain Newark; the George Washington Bridge and Bus Station; the Lincoln and Holland tunnels; the three bridges between Staten Island and New Jersey; the PATH (Port Authority Trans-Hudson) rapid-transit system; the Port Authority-Downtown Manhattan Heliport; Port Newark; the Elizabeth-Port Authority Marine Terminal; the Howland Hook Marine Terminal on Staten Island; the Brooklyn Piers/Red Hook Container Terminal; and the Port Authority Bus Terminal in midtown Manhattan. The agency also owns the 16-acre World Trade Center site in Lower Manhattan.

    The Port Authority is financially self-supporting and receives no tax revenue from either state.

  15. #495


    A temporary entrance to the temporary station.

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