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Thread: Knickerbocker Hotel - by Marvin & Davis, Bruce Price and Trowbridge & Livingston

  1. #46
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Default Please read post #42

    Quote Originally Posted by Scraperfannyc View Post
    If this is converted into a hotel, I think developers will have a much easier time demolishing it if it is not landmarked.
    The building in question is already landmarked. Turning it into a hotel does not alter landmark status.
    Last edited by stache; July 23rd, 2007 at 02:10 AM. Reason: Grammar.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraperfannyc View Post
    I'm surprised this did not get the wrecking ball yet. More cubicle space in this location makes sense.
    God, im in Commercial Real Estate and the more office space the better, but this building is a great one. Hotel Penn to me is not but losing this is nuts!!!!

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by kliq6 View Post
    God, im in Commercial Real Estate and the more office space the better, but this building is a great one. Hotel Penn to me is not but losing this is nuts!!!!
    I'm glad it's landmarked, so this one will obviously remain. I love the contrast between this building and the surrounding glass buildings in Times Square. A contrast of two great eras.

    Still though, if this building was not landmarked, I don't think it would be able to withstand the waves of new office contruction in this area. This is one of the hottest spots for prime Class A office space right now.

    In the end, it is the combination of height and architecture that will win as this is what steals public attention. The only way to be better is to build taller and with grander architecture. All else will dissapear behind the curtains.

  4. #49
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Just keep those ^^^ grubby hands off the terrific early 20 C buildings in the garment district

  5. #50

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    ^Agreed. If anything, I believe they should designate the main area of Garment District (between 34th and 40th and 7th to 9th) as a historic district (since nowhere else in the city can you find such a solid, unspoiled collection of early 20th century building stock) and permit only very limited construction in the area. Would make a nice break between the soon-to-explode development at and near MSG to the south, the up and coming West Side to the west and rapidly developing 8th Avenue and 42nd Street districts to the north. I really don't want new towers popping up amongst those classic old buildings in an arguably best preserved neighborhood from the era, both physically and in spirit. I understand that it will likely get gentrified as everything around it undergoes rapid development, yet even maintaining its physical aspects would be a great feat in this rapidly developing area.

  6. #51

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    ^ Agreed. Keep the building stock intact and convert much of it to residential to give it some evening life.

    Oh, and clean the buildings.

  7. #52

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    Landmark that and those beautiful blocks of 5th below the ESB (which are slowly being eaten away.)

  8. #53

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    I agree on the Garment District, since the building stock is incredible and there's a lot of history there. The manufacturing zoning makes it prone for hotels, specifically mcsams, popping up near the Port Authority. Luckily most buildings are built out greater than today's FAR would allow so they aren't very vulnerable.

    As for 5th Avenue near the ESB, it's already landmarked south of 29th st. Nothing wrong with a couple new condo towers nearby....we can't landmark the whole island.

  9. #54
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Question

    sfenn, how far down 5th. does the landmark status extend?

  10. #55

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    The "Madison Square North" district starts at 29th (midblock on the west side of 5th) and goes to 25th. Ladies Mile goes from there all the way down to 15th.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/maps/maps_manh.shtml

  11. #56
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Cool What a relief!

    Broadway above Union Sq. is my favorite part of the city.

  12. #57

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    The Knickerbocker Hotel was born in 1906. It became an office building in 1921. The building is now known as 6 Times Square. There are now plans to restore the building into a 250-room hotel.

  13. #58
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    From today's NY Post:

    Location and pricing have caused Dubai's Nakheel to enter into a contract to sell the Knickerbocker Hotel and the adjacent 42nd Street development site.

    The off-market deal was arranged by Jeffrey Davis of Jones Lang LaSalle.

    Nakheel Hotels' CEO Joe Sita told us that they had bought the office building at 6 Times Square with plans to convert it back to the Knickerbocker prior to their purchases of the W Hotel at Union Square and the Mandarin Oriental at the Time Warner Center.

    "When we looked at the weighting of hotel product we really didn't need another hotel of that standard," Sita said.

    Architects Brennan Beer Gorman, which also worked on the St. Regis, had created what Sita called "outstanding" conversion plans for the hotel and the site next door that the unidentified buyer, which is in its due diligence period, may decide to use.

    Meanwhile, Nakheel (which now encompasses the former Istithmar division) is continuing many projects in Dubai as well as renovation work on its newest US purchases, the Fontainebleau in Miami and the conversion of the Hotel Washington to a W.

  14. #59
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Dubai royal fam rethinks Knick

    September 29, 2009, by Sara

    Remember when the Dubai royal family thought there was room for another luxury hotel on 42nd Street, back in the dreamy days of 2006, and paid $300 million to buy the Knickerbocker Hotel? Surprise, surprise, the promised hotel restoration hasn't happened, and the Post's Steve Cuozzo reports today that Istithmar World, which owns the Broadway and 42nd Street building, is thinking about selling it. Douglas Durst, developer of nearby One Bryant Park, said Istithmar's mess on 42nd street "doesn't make me very happy." But with Dubai's own market falling apart, we're guessing the royal family has bigger things to worry about. [Post, previously]

    http://curbed.com/archives/2009/09/2...inks_knick.php

  15. #60
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    ^ The story referred to.


    No-sell hotel on 42nd street

    By STEVE CUOZZO

    September 29, 2009

    1466 Broadway and an adjacent empty lot sit unfinished because of the developer's money woes.

    THE office building at 1466 Broadway, the landmarked former Knickerbocker Hotel, stands half-dark at the "Crossroads of the World."

    Next door on 42nd Street, a low plywood fence fronts an unsightly empty lot and an adjacent, vacant four-story structure.

    That's the southeast corner of 42nd Street at Broadway -- an eyesore amid the sparkling likes of the Durst Organization's One Bryant Park and Blackstone's newly re-clad 1095 Sixth Ave. Both 1466 Broadway and the adjacent lot and empty building are owned by Dubai's Istithmar World.

    In fact, most of the south side of 42nd Street between Sixth Avenue and Broadway is unsightly, but some of that is temporary.

    Blackstone is creating a new public plaza next to 1195 Sixth and American Properties, owner of Bush Tower at 130 W. 42nd St., will soon take down a sidewalk bridge after it completes facade work.

    But the Istithmar mess isn't likely to go away soon, and the owners of nearby properties are baffled and annoyed.

    Douglas Durst, who developed One Bryant Park and now has his office there, said "It doesn't make me very happy. I certainly wish we could do something to make it look better."

    Dubai World, a government-owned conglomerate of which Istithmar is a part, is being "restructured."

    Marwan Dalloul, principal of American Properties, which owns Bush Tower, said of the blighted site next door: "I haven't followed it as much as I'd like -- there's no one [at Istithmar] to talk to."

    How the prime site became what it is today is the story of a bubble that burst with last year's Wall Street meltdown.

    SL Green bought 1466 Broadway -- a 16-story structure with 298,000 square feet, opened by John Jacob Astor as the Knickerbocker in 906 -- for $65 million in 1998, and spent $14 million more on restoration.

    In 2005, Green sold it for $156 million to Sitt Asset Management, which flipped it to Istithmar for $300 million a year later.

    Soon after, in 2006, Dalloul sold the empty lot and a vacant small building (140 W. 42nd) between 130 W. 42nd and 1466 Broadway to Istithmar for $76 million. Mortgages on the Istithmar properties total about $227 million, according to public records.

    Istithmar, riding high three years ago, said it would put up a new building on the empty lot and combine it with 1466 Broadway to create a five-star hotel. But it dropped that idea after it bought stakes in two other Manhattan hotels, the W Union Square and the Mandarin Oriental.

    My colleague Lois Weiss reported last year that Jones Lang LaSalle had brokered a prospective sale of Istithmar's parcel to an unidentified entity. No deal was ever completed, however.

    Meanwhile, old office leases at 1466 Broadway weren't being renewed. (The building remains bustling at street level, thanks to a big Gap store.) Co-star now lists 235,000 square feet of the building as "available."

    Dalloul said Istithmar's aborted hotel plan "once made sense if you had all the money in the world. At one point, everything made sense on paper -- sure, you can get $1,000 a room per night. Then the world changed."

    Istithmar plunked $27 billion, most of it borrowed, into various world wide investments over the past few years, including Barn eys. It sold off 280 Park Ave. in late 2007 for $128 million, slightly more than it had bought it for -- but that was before the investment-sale collapse.

    There's recent buzz that Istithmar might soon try to sell the 42nd Street parcel. Real Capital Analytics Research Chief Dan Fasulo said, "I believe the highest and best use of that site is as a hotel -- but a price any investor would pay today is much lower than what Istithmar paid."

    Calls to Istithmar's New York office and to Sitt Asset were not returned.

    In an unusual Brooklyn-to-Manhattan move, online health company Waterfront Media is leaving Dumbo for Trinity Real Estate's 345 Hudson St.

    The firm had 28,000 feet at 45 Main St. in Dumbo and will now have 36,400 feet on Hudson Street.

    Cushman & Wakefield's Mitti Liebersohn and Scott Silverstein repped Waterfront.

    Liebersohn called the new location "ideal for a modern, media-centric company," noting, "345 Hudson St.'s floor plan is highly conducive to Waterfront Media's creative environment."

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...pZUAE3Xc3MEtzI

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