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Thread: R.I.P. Margaret Thatcher

  1. #16

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    Suddenly I feel like watching V for Vendetta again.

  2. #17

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    An interesting piece of information regarding Bernard Weatherill, the speaker of the house in the video above...he directly played a huge, yet unknown role in British politics.

    "It has recently been revealed that in 1979, Weatherill played a critical role in the defeat of the Labour government in the vote of confidence. As the vote loomed, Labour's deputy Chief Whip, Walter Harrison approached Weatherill to enforce the convention and "gentleman's agreement" that if a sick MP from the Government could not vote, an MP from the Opposition would abstain to compensate. The Labour MP Alfred Broughton was on his deathbed and could not vote, meaning the Government would probably lose by one vote. Weatherill said that the convention had never been intended for such a critical vote that literally meant the life or death of the Government and it would be impossible to find a Conservative MP who would agree to abstain. However, after a moment's reflection, he offered that he himself would abstain, because he felt it would be dishonourable to break his word with Harrison. Walter Harrison was so impressed by Weatherill's offer - which would have effectively ended his political career - that he released Weatherill from his obligation and so the Government fell by one vote on the agreement of gentlemen."

    Despite my opinion of the Thatcher and the time she was in office, I still find that story quite remarkable.

  3. #18
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    A final send off to the Lady, long planned for the next Saturday after her passing at various locales, including:

    In Red Hook this Saturday, at Rocky Sullivan's.

  4. #19

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    And why in the name of all that's holy would a place called Rocky Sullivan's be giving Thatcher a sendoff?

  5. #20

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    Pardon me, I only looked at the last link. Now I get it.

  6. #21

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    Called it.


    ENTERTAINMENT & ARTS

    12 April 2013 Last updated at 08:35 ETMargaret Thatcher Wizard of Oz track sparks chart debate

    Opinions are divided over whether a song at the centre of an anti-Margaret Thatcher campaign should be played on this week's Official Chart Show.
    Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead could chart inside the top five on Sunday.
    MP John Whittingdale said "it would be better" not to play it, while DJ Paul Gambaccini insisted: "It's not something to editorialise about."
    A Radio 1 spokesman said a decision would be made "when the final chart positions were clear".
    "This is an attempt to manipulate the charts by people trying to make a political point," Mr Whittingdale, who is chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport select committee, told the Daily Mail
    "Most people find that offensive and deeply insensitive."

    Writing in the Daily Telegraph, music critic Neil McCormick opined that "there is no reason for the BBC to risk upsetting many listeners just to satisfy a few troublemakers".
    The paper also quoted former Conservative Party chairman Lord McAlpine, who said he was "absolutely astounded" the corporation was "even considering playing it".
    But Conservative MP Philip Davies said: 'It's a chart programme so if it's top of the charts they have to play it. It's not for the BBC to define on what basis something is in the charts."
    'Programme of record'A number of media experts have told the BBC the Wizard of Oz track should be played, particularly if it charts inside the Top 10.
    They include Trevor Dann, the BBC's former head of music entertainment, who said he could not see "any reason" why it should not be played.
    "The chart is almost like a news programme; it's a programme of record," he said.
    "It's not for the BBC to judge if it's an appropriate record for people to buy and therefore for them to play."

    His position was echoed by radio consultant Johnn Myers, who felt it should be played provided there was no reference to the campaign surrounding it.
    "If you set up a chart show to play the nation's most purchased or downloaded songs, that's what you have to play," said Mr Myers, a former chief executive of the Radio Academy.
    "You don't have to say why people have bought it, but you do have to play it."
    Journalist and DJ Paul Gambaccini has expressed a similar opinion, telling BBC WM that the programme was "not a programme of choice".
    "The Top 40 is the news of music," he went on. "It's not something to editorialise about - it's just fact. You can't change reality."
    "I feel utterly sorry for all the chart shows," added Vivienne Pattison of Mediawatch UK, a group that campaigns for family values in the media.
    "It's put them in a really invidious position.
    "But chart shows exist to play the most bought or downloaded songs, and to change that is to interfere with a democratic process."
    The track is also number one in the Capital Chart's Big Top 40. Earlier this week, its sponsor Vodafone said: "We simply sponsor the chart itself, we don't pass comment on the tracks it contains."
    Asked to comment on the subject earlier this week by BBC staff, the corporation's new director general Tony Hall said he found the campaign "pretty tasteless".
    "But let's see," he continued. "If there's an editorial reason for saying it's number one, or it's the fastest riser, this week, we'll have to rethink."
    Greg Dyke, a former director general of the BBC, said Lady Thatcher herself would have found the idea of not playing the track "ridiculous".
    "If they don't play it they are making a political statement," he told Newsbeat's Chi Chi Izundu.

    The original track was performed in the 1939 Judy Garland film by characters celebrating the demise of the much-hated Wicked Witch of the East.
    Opponents of Margaret Thatcher have been buying copies of the song following the former Prime Minister's death on Monday at the age of 87.
    According to the Official Charts Company, Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead is currently on course to claim the number three placing in Sunday's countdown.
    In 1977 the BBC refused to play God Save the Queen by the Sex Pistols when it charted during the Queen's Silver Jubilee celebrations.




  7. #22

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    Her sister, the Wicked Witch of the West, was played by another Maggie, Margaret Hamilton.

  8. #23

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    Bit late to the discussion, but context in all of these topics is paramount.

    Prior to Thatcher, Britain was rather alien by modern standards; a truly broken mess, the 'sick man of Europe' and veering towards self-destruction. The irony of course is that the militant union action which led to the Winter of Discontent under a Labour administration (bankrolled by the unions) led to Thatcher’s election.

    Some points:

    • The previous Callaghan government had to embarrassingly go to the IMF for a loan to keep Britain afloat.
    • A majority of the economy was in state hands (car manufacturing, steel, logistics, ports, telecoms, airlines, utilities, etc...) haemorrhaging capital, making products nobody wanted and grossly uncompetitive.
    • Small businesses were crushed by red tape; competition and choice was unheard of.
    • If you were brought up in a one-industry town, you had little alternative but to go into that industry, regardless of your intelligence or ambitions in life.
    • GDP per capita was amongst the lowest in Europe (hence the ‘sick man’ label of the era), and continuing to decline relative to other European nations.
    • Governments were held to ransom and brought down by unions and their frankly staggering and uneconomical demands (e.g. 20% wage increase for steel workers).
    • Wildcat and illegal strikes brought the country to a halt for no apparent reason, whilst absenteeism was rife.
    • Energy blackouts became such a common occurrence, it led to the three-day working week to conserve electricity.
    • Journalists were banned from using computers due to the stranglehold of the print unions.
    • Investment in new technologies and equipment was limited due to the excessive cost to vandal-proof equipment.
    • The top rate of income tax was an eye-watering 83% (98% on investment income), even the basic rate of tax for those on the lowest incomes was above a third (it is now zero).
    • Rubbish went uncollected, and bodies were left unburied (people were faced with digging their own relatives' graves or seal the corpse in a special plastic bag).


    There are also some misconceptions; Thatcher is attributed as destroying coal mining, but coal mines and employment had peaked prior to WW1 and previous Labour administrations under Callaghan and Wilson saw more pit closures and redundancies than Thatcher. Manufacturing also expanded under Thatcher and overall prospects increased for the majority of the population; you no longer needed to follow your father and his father into the pits or furnaces.

    Thatcher also wasn’t looking to privatise the NHS (or even the railways – which are currently semi-privatised), and was cautious on the emerging threat from climate change. Most interesting of all is that despite 13 years of Labour under Tony Blair & Gordon Brown; none of Thatcher’s actions were undone.

    In summary, Thatcher was akin the medicine – it was unpleasant and not always agreeable, but it saved your life. Her legacy led to the re-emergence of the UK as a credible nation, a fairer and more transparent nation, and one fully integrated into the global economy with improved outcomes for the majority of the population.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick-taylor View Post
    Bit late to the discussion, but context in all of these topics is paramount.

    Prior to Thatcher, Britain was rather alien by modern standards; a truly broken mess, the 'sick man of Europe' and veering towards self-destruction. The irony of course is that the militant union action which led to the Winter of Discontent under a Labour administration (bankrolled by the unions) led to Thatcher’s election.

    Some points:

    [LIST][*]The previous Callaghan government had to embarrassingly go to the IMF for a loan to keep Britain afloat.[*]A majority of the economy was in state hands (car manufacturing, steel, logistics, ports, telecoms, airlines, utilities, etc...) haemorrhaging capital, making products nobody wanted and grossly uncompetitive.[*]Small businesses were crushed by red tape; competition and choice was unheard of.[*]If you were brought up in a one-industry town, you had little alternative but to go into that industry, regardless of your intelligence or ambitions in life.[*]GDP per capita was amongst the lowest in Europe (hence the ‘sick man’ label of the era), and ........

    In summary, Thatcher was akin the medicine – it was unpleasant and not always agreeable, but it saved your life. Her legacy led to the re-emergence of the UK as a credible nation, a fairer and more transparent nation, and one fully integrated into the global economy with improved outcomes for the majority of the population.
    Well done ; and very much an unassailable defense of her time as PM. Looking back at my derogatory post about MThatcher
    I am truly humbled; seems my knee jerk critism (like most other here lol) was emotional, unintelligent and mostly ill informed.

    Bravo for the brilliant post: I am not above being set straight on the 'facts' - maybe the Iron Lady wasn't all THAT bad after all.

  10. #25

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    No problem infoshare, she wasn’t a saint but I can’t imagine where the UK would be now if she hadn’t materialised. London certainly would be nowhere near what it is today without her efforts and subsequent legacy.

    The funeral and procession were pretty good yesterday with tens of thousands lining the procession route (despite it being a working day), and millions more watching on TV.


    Image sourced from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-22179697

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