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Thread: 4 Dead in Metro-North Train Derailment in the Bronx

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    That is more than a legitimate complaint. The toll amount goes way above beyond what they need to maintain the bridge and is instead used to generate a large profit stream for the Port Authority to waste in their huge bureaucratic empire
    You could say the same thing about the VZN bridge.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    You could say the same thing about the VZN bridge.
    Not as bad as the Hudson River crossings if you're a resident since the Verrazano toll is $6 inbound and $0 outbound for them

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    First, the 97% on time record is pure unadulterated bull shit.
    Based on your...er what? What is "often?"

    The evening rush out of New Haven is late a hell of a lot more than 3% of the time by the time it reaches Stamford. And not by 6 minutes, either.
    Already explained the ancient cars on the New Haven Line that they didn't begin to replace until 2011. Even now although customer perception has improved, there's a marked difference between riders on the New Haven and the other lines.

    By the time I moved out of NY they were just beginning to implement the newer trains - I am not sure of the model, but there wern't many of them.
    So your experience is dated. The intital delay was lack of funding approval from the Connecticut legislature; and in 2009, what state government was approving any money for infrastructure.

    And they had the appearance of being nothing more than retoold older cars.
    Designed from the ground up. Regardless of how you think they look, they are brand new and have fewer breakdowns than cars built in the 70s. When you stopped using the railroad, they had 28 of the new cars; now they have 294. The total order is for 380 cars.

    And there's a new $1.8 billion contract with Kawasaki Rail for 92 M9 cars still under development. If funding is approved, there will be an additional contract for 492 cars, to be split between LIRR and MNR

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    The toll amount goes way above beyond what they need to maintain the bridge and is instead used to generate a large profit stream for the Port Authority to waste in their huge bureaucratic empire
    You forget that in regards to the GWB, the PA thinks it's in India.


  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    First, the 97% on time record is pure unadulterated bull shit. They are generally on time for the morning rush leaving out of GCT,although even there 97% is a stretch. The evening rush out of New Haven is late a hell of a lot more than 3% of the time by the time it reaches Stamford. And not by 6 minutes, either.

    Someone is playing fast and loose with the metrics.

    By the time I moved out of NY they were just beginning to implement the newer trains - I am not sure of the model, but there wern't many of them. And they had the appearance of being nothing more than retoold older cars. The interiors were painted bright colors,the lighting improved and the seats were replaced. But they were still over crowded (no extra capacity,no extra cars) they still leaked, and they were still late.

    You are shimming up a greased rope with this one.
    New Haven line ridership as with most of the Northeastern Rail network is seeing record ridership. As with all the other lines , investment has been bare minimum intill recently so the region is playing catch up. The trains are 3-2 seating styles , most people don't like the middle seat so they stand...the capacity is there on the trains people don't always use it. The Cars are made in Nebraska , 10 per month are shipped over to NY for testing....so it will be a few more years before the entire fleet is here. As for trains being late , the speed limit has been lowered to allow for upgrades , it used to 100mph , now its 60mph on certain straight areas. Once the upgrade is done , there shouldn't be anymore delays....sadly it will take intill 2022 before the New Haven line , Waterbury and Danbury Branches , Knowledge Corridor and Shore Line East are fully upgraded.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Based on your...er what? What is "often?"
    Based on my experienceffrom April 2009 to October 2012 .. and as I did not keep detailed records, I cannot provide the exact metrics.

    If a one year elapsed time frame is dated - than yes, I a dated. But one year is not a decade.

    What I can say is that the 5:34, 5:55 PM and later trains out of Stamford to GCT was late virtually every day up until the time I moved to Chicago.

    Every single day.
    Last edited by eddhead; December 18th, 2013 at 01:47 PM.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    New Haven line ridership as with most of the Northeastern Rail network is seeing record ridership. As with all the other lines , investment has been bare minimum intill recently so the region is playing catch up. The trains are 3-2 seating styles , most people don't like the middle seat so they stand...the capacity is there on the trains people don't always use it. The Cars are made in Nebraska , 10 per month are shipped over to NY for testing....so it will be a few more years before the entire fleet is here. As for trains being late , the speed limit has been lowered to allow for upgrades , it used to 100mph , now its 60mph on certain straight areas. Once the upgrade is done , there shouldn't be anymore delays....sadly it will take intill 2022 before the New Haven line , Waterbury and Danbury Branches , Knowledge Corridor and Shore Line East are fully upgraded.
    As I previously indicated, I took the train to and from Stamford for three years through the end of 2012. The seating design, as you indicated is 3-2. I can assure you that during the morning and evening rush hours - even for the reverse commute- every seat on the train is filled, including the middle seats. During the morning rush, seats fill up and than some at GCT, leaving few if any seats open for passangers boarding at Harlem -and there are a lot of them. In the evening there are not enough available seats to accomodate passangers boarding at Stamford.

    People stand because there are no seats available, not because folks don't like sitting in middle seats. Trust me. I have sat in those middle seats many times.

    And on Yankee game days, the evening rush was impossible.

    EDIT - I took the trian though 2012, not 2011
    Last edited by eddhead; December 18th, 2013 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    Based on my experienceffrom April 2009 to October 2012 .. and as I did not keep detailed records, I cannot provide the exact metrics.
    As I said, that's dated information. And it was on a route that had a unique problem that could only be resolved by either installing third rails in Connecticut or designing a new car. During that time, the other two lines were getting car upgrades. Did you regularly ride the Hudson or Harlem Lines?

  9. #69

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    Getting back to the safety issue, and finding out what's been happening this year...

    Train accident injuries on Metro-North are far higher this year than any of the past 10. Through August, 123 people were hurt in train accidents. The highest annual number in the past decade was seven in 2007.
    Metro-North train mishaps caused by motive power or equipment also declined from 10 per year in 2004, 2006 and 2007 to four in 2010 and none in 2012. Through August of this year, there was one.
    This month, Metro-North’s chief engineer, Robert Puciloski, told members of the National Transportation Safety Board investigating the May derailment and Luden’s death that the railroad is “behind in several areas,” including a five-year schedule of cyclical maintenance that had not been conducted in the area of the Bridgeport derailment since 2005.
    http://www.pressherald.com/news/NYC_...tro-North.html

  10. #70

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    No I did not. But it should be mentioned that the New Haven line is Metro North's flagship line and the fact that an inverse relationhsip exists between the number of passangers riding the train, and rider satisfaction, is not good.

    Perhaps my experience IS dated ... by 1 year. I guess a LOT could have happened during that time, but frankly, Iam dubious. A year is not a decade.

    Finally when you suggest the line had unique problems that could only be solved with installlnig third rails or desigining new cars, I process that the system was poorly engineered from the onset. Still not good.

    I am not responsible for arhecting the rail system, and I am not aware of the logistical considerations assocaited with adding additional cars to crowed trains. Nor should I be. I am an a consumer and a customer who paid good money for sub-standard service, and I like other riders on the line deserve better.

    It is not our job to fix it. It is simply our job to pay for our fares. It is up to the MTA to ensure we get value and accepetable service levels in return - the are resposible for problem solutioning this, not me.

  11. #71
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    And the fares are not cheap by any standard.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    No I did not. But it should be mentioned that the New Haven line is Metro North's flagship line and the fact that an inverse relationhsip exists between the number of passangers riding the train, and rider satisfaction, is not good.
    I posted a link on this earlier.

    It didn't say anything about any flagship line, but that there was a difference in numbers between New Haven and the others. At any rate as of Nov 2013:
    Overall, the percentage of Connecticut riders who said they were "very satisfied" was only 26 percent, compared to 47 percent on both the Harlem and Hudson lines.

    The difference is less marked for riders who rank service as satisfactory or better, with New Haven Line riders at 88 percent, and the other Hudson and Harlem Line riders at 96 percent, according to the survey results
    Perhaps my experience IS dated ... by 1 year. I guess a LOT could have happened during that time, but frankly, Iam dubious. A year is not a decade.
    138 new cars were added in 2013.

    Finally when you suggest the line had unique problems that could only be solved with installlnig third rails or desigining new cars, I process that the system was poorly engineered from the onset. Still not good.
    The new cars were waiting for the Connecticut legislature, which had not approved the funding. When it finally was, the financial collapse followed.

    [I am not responsible for arhecting the rail system, and I am not aware of the logistical considerations assocaited with adding additional cars to crowed trains.
    I thought I made it clear and simple. The M7 cars will not work in Connecticut.

    Maybe they could have gotten the Budd Co to get back in the railroad business and build more M2s and M4s for the New Haven Line.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I posted a link on this earlier.

    It didn't say anything about any flagship line, but that there was a difference in numbers between New Haven and the others. At any rate as of Nov 2013:

    138 new cars were added in 2013.

    The new cars were waiting for the Connecticut legislature, which had not approved the funding. When it finally was, the financial collapse followed.

    I thought I made it clear and simple. The M7 cars will not work in Connecticut.

    Maybe they could have gotten the Budd Co to get back in the railroad business and build more M2s and M4s for the New Haven Line.
    You are missing the point. Once again, it is not my responsiblity to fix the problems, be it that they lay with the MTA, the state legisalture or elsewhere. Maybe the problem was the result of poor design, archetecture, or funding. Maybe somone bought the wrong trains, or did a poor job designing the rail system. Frankly, I don't care. I don't care that the M7 trains don't work on the line. That is not mh problem. If the trains don't work, than maybe they were not the right trains, or maybe the line was poorly designed. Or maybe it is something else. but is it not my job to figure it out.

    And the equipment shortcomings does not excuse the ltrain staffes sack of service lack of courtesy and client centricity. They are rude and demeaining to thier clients - indeed they don't even treat the passangers as customers. More than one head conductor has told me that directly.

    Even the dispatch staff at the Ct. terminals are very unprofessional, unhelpful, and rude.

    Someone owns the end-to-end client experience, and it is not me. My job is to pay the fare, and as it is already been pointed out by stache, the fare is not insignificant. All I can tell you, is through the end of last year, 14 months ago, the service sucked, the trains were over-packed and the on-time rates were abysmal. Bear in mind, you are communicating with someone who had day-to-day experiences on the train. You should assign a higher level of credibility to my reported experiences

    Somehow, I doubt replacing old antiquated equipment with new cars, addressed the over crowding issue, but maybe it did. I am dubious though
    Last edited by eddhead; December 18th, 2013 at 02:34 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    You are missing the point. Once again, it is not my responsiblity to fix the problems, be it that they lay with the MTA, the state legisalture or elsewhere. Maybe the problem was the result of poor design, archetecture, or funding. Frankly, I don't care. I don't care that the M7 trains don't work on the line. That is not mh problem. If the trains don't work, than maybe they were not the right trains, or maybe the line was poorly designed. Or maybe it is something else. but is it not my job to figure it out.

    And the equipment shortcomings does not excuse the ltrain staffes sack of service lack of courtesy and client centricity. They are rude and demeaining to thier clients - indeed they don't even treat the passangers as customers. More than one head conductor has told me that directly.

    Even the dispatch staff at the Ct. terminals are very unprofessional, unhelpful, and rude.

    Someone owns the end-to-end client experience, and it is not me. My job is to pay the fare, and as it is already been pointed out by stache, the fare is not insignificant. All I can tell you, is through the end of last year, 14 months ago, the service sucked, the trains were over-packed and the on-time rates were abysmal. Bear in mind, you are communicating with someone who had day-to-day experiences on the train. You should assign a higher level of credibility to my reported experiences

    Somehow, I doubt replacing old antiquated equipment with new cars, addressed the over crowding issue, but maybe it did. I am dubious though
    CT has a third Rail ban , so they've always used overhead as did the PRR which built the Hell Gate line which feeds into the New Haven line. Overhead will not work on the Harlem and Hudson lines due to the numerous low overpasses and tunnels along with Grand Central being too low for overhead so third rail is used. These railroads are well built and designed , they can handle a lot of trains at high speeds....except on a few curves. These lines are very old dating back to the 1870s in some cases. M7A's which the MNRR uses only work with bottom contact third , the LIRR M7s use Top contact third rail , the 2 are different in that department. M9s will have duel shoes for the West Side line and the M8As will just be Overhead without the third rail shoe that will be for the Hell Gate line , Danbury and Waterbury upgrades. Overhead is better for longer distances , while 3rd rail is better for shorter distances.

    Train Dispatchers are located in the yards , you mean the Station staff? The ones in Stamford like to joke around , but are never rude....New Haven staffers tend to cold and emotionless.

    Replacing the cars addresses part of the problem , the other part will be resolved once upgrades are completed later this decade and more trains are allowed to operate.

  15. #75

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    Yes, I mean the station staff. The staff as Stamford do joke around - that doesn't bother me at all. But they are often rude as well. On more than on occassion I have heard them broadcast messages to the platform basically saying stop coming up to us and asking for information - we already told you we don't know anything more than you do. They have also suggessted they will ignore inquiries.

    Nice

    Not withstandin the engineering challenges, once again I feel someone or some entity is reponsible for the end-to-end client experience. I don't necessarily know who that is, but it isn't me.

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