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Thread: Police Shooting in Ferguson

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    Apparently the original eyewitness accounts (that Brown had his hands up, was surrendering, and was shot in the back), are falling apart.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...hands-up-story
    Do you think you could have found a more biased rag than Briebart.

    Dozens of witnesses have reportedly told another story, according to Christine Byers of theSt. Louis Post-Dispatch: they say that Brown attacked Wilson through the window of his car, punched him, attempted to reach for Wilson’s gun, then ran. When Wilson shouted at them to freeze, Brown turned around and charged Wilson, prompting the shooting.
    The "dozens of witnesses" turn out to be a police-source telling the reporter that there were more than a dozen witnesses. No names. No accounts. The "they say" link was to Wilson's friend Josie, who wasn't a witness at all.





  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    You haven't established the parameters of the rioting and looting.
    Breaking into to stores, stealing stuff, burning stores, turning over cars, throwing Molotov cocktails, shooting (probably at the cops.)

    As I already said, the crowd was not monolithic. Could you describe the entire crowd, or even the majority, as rioting; or were there just incidents.
    I stated that I know there were peaceful protesters. I stated that they should be accomodated. But there has been plenty of violence also.

    So who crossed the line, and when? The initial response by police - when the protest was peaceful - was confrontational and violent. So if one person "crosses the line," everyone is put at risk by using tear gas and flash grenades? Or were these methods first used merely for crowd dispersal, to deny First Amendment rights?
    I heard about the rioting first, then about the cops trying to intervene. I wasn't there (as you weren't), so I don't know first hand.

    There are basically two stories. One by eyewitnesses, and one by Wilson. There has been some confusion about a woman named "Josie" who has given an account which corroborates that of Wilson, which multiplied into many sources that also backed it up. But she is a friend of Wilson, and called in his account to a radio station. That is heresay.

    Both Brown's friend and the woman who taped the aftermath from her apartment window have said that there was a struggle between Wilson and Brown at the car. Brown was not fatally shot while in contact with Wilson.

    The second autopsy revealed that only two of the shots that hit Brown were fatal. One entered his head above the right eyebrow, exited his jaw and reentered his shoulder. Another shot entered the top of his head.

    Bill O'Reilly stuff.
    Now making the Times (not going to post in all the text):

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us...ml?ref=us&_r=0

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    Breaking into to stores, stealing stuff, burning stores, turning over cars, throwing Molotov cocktails, shooting (probably at the cops.)
    That did not happen initially, and I didn't ask for a generic description of rioting. The rest of my statement: "As I already said, the crowd was not monolithic. Could you describe the entire crowd, or even the majority, as rioting; or were there just incidents." Was the protest a riot?

    I stated that I know there were peaceful protesters. I stated that they should be accomodated.
    How? Especially if they're the majority.

    What accommodation is this? Who is he pointing that rifle at?




    But there has been plenty of violence also.
    Accounts throughout the week indicate that the violence subsided as the police backed off.

    I heard about the rioting first,
    What do you mean by rioting? The crowd got out of control, or were there incidents of violence?

    Now making the Times (not going to post in all the text):

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us...ml?ref=us&_r=0
    Quite a bit different from Briebart.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Talk isn't cheap when you don't have it.
    I suppose so, but being able to talk isn't the same as having a voice.

    This event is hot right now because it is topical and is driving news ratings, but what happens 6 months from now when the clamor dies down and it is not longer a 24 hour CNN story? Who will represent the citizens of Ferguson, and a public that is rightfully concerned about the militarization of local police. Right now, this story is driving the corporate interests of networks and cable news - motivated wholly by ratings and profits. This isn't 1967 when the MSP had soul and were compelled direct their reporting to the interests of the public good.

    As a nation, we have developed Attention Deficit Disorder. Onto the next shiny thing.

  5. #20

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    I merely answered the question of how we are better than China and Russia. Nothing more.

  6. #21

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    With an inflamed situation already in Ferguson why on earth did the Police shoot 25-year old Kajieme Powell 12 times - why didn't they tazer him? The Police Chief's response to that question was pathetic! Yes the guy is out of order but those 12 bullets were three times the number that the entire British Police fired in anger last year!

    'Shot me now motherf*****': Shocking video footage shows final moments of African American male who approached police with a knife and was shot 12 times


    • The man shot dead by police in St. Louis on Tuesday has been named as 25-year-old Kajieme Powell
    • St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department has released footage of the moments leading up to his death filmed by a witness on their cell phone
    • Police say they want to show 'complete transparency' and have already released the 911 calls and security video footage
    • Powell can be seen in the footage acting erratically before the police arrives and he approaches them with a steak knife
    • The footage shows the incident played out differently to how the local police chief had described it on Tuesday and Powell doesn't charge at the cops
    • The man was apparently known in the local community as 'disturbed'
    • Police Chief Sam Dotson said his officers didn't use a Taser because 'Tasers aren't 100 percent'
    The report shows a video of the actual shooting - not nice to watch, and this is the US in 2014 for Heaven's sake!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-12-times.html

  7. #22

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    As I predicted, the Ferguson Police Dept is now under Justice Dept investigation. It really wasn't that hard; after all, 13% of the force has had an excessive force charge. The national average is around 1%.

    Federal Inquiry of Ferguson Police Will Include Apparent Racial Profiling

    By MATT APUZZO SEPT. 4, 2014

    WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s civil rights investigation into the police department in Ferguson, Mo., will focus on whether officers there made discriminatory traffic stops, mistreated prisoners or used excessive force in the years before last month’s fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white officer, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said on Thursday.

    Mr. Holder said the decision to open the inquiry was influenced by his trip to Ferguson after the shooting of the teenager, Michael Brown, 18, led to protests and confrontations with heavily armed police officers. Residents complained that the police had abused their authority for years and disproportionately targeted African-Americans for stops and searches.

    “These anecdotal accounts underscored the history of mistrust of law enforcement in Ferguson,” Mr. Holder said.

    The population in Ferguson, a St. Louis suburb, is about two-thirds African-American; its police department has 53 officers, four of whom are black.

    Mr. Brown’s family and the authorities in Ferguson offered support for the federal investigation.

    “We believe that transparency in law enforcement is the only way to build trust in the community, not just in the killing of Michael Brown, but for others who have suffered as well,” Benjamin L. Crump, a lawyer representing the Brown family, said in a statement.

    Officials in Ferguson, in a statement, said they had met with Justice Department officials “and feel our collaborative efforts are another step forward in showing our willingness to be transparent and forthright as we continue the process of earning back the trust of our residents and our neighbors in the St. Louis region.”

    Ron Hosko, the president of the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund, a nonprofit organization that defends police departments and officers in court cases and in public, criticized the investigation as politically motivated. Mr. Hosko, a former assistant director for the F.B.I., said the decision suggested that the Justice Department had already made up its mind that the police had violated Ferguson residents’ civil rights.

    “Such a conclusion can only have a chilling effect on the thousands of law enforcement professionals who put their lives on the line every day to protect our communities,” Mr. Hosko said, adding that the large increase in civil rights investigations represented “a disturbing and growing trend.”

    The broad federal review is unrelated to separate investigations by the county and the F.B.I. into the death of Mr. Brown, who was shot to death by Officer Darren Wilson in a confrontation on a Ferguson street on Aug. 9.

    Officer Wilson, 28, has been placed on administrative leave and has not been charged with any wrongdoing.

    Broad Justice Department investigations like the one Mr. Holder announced on Thursday can lead to voluntary policy changes or agreements that give the federal government oversight over a police department. Before Ferguson, there have been 20 such broad investigations under Mr. Holder.

    The investigation announced Thursday will not cover the police response to the nightly protests in Ferguson that followed Mr. Brown’s death. Law enforcement officers, many clad in body armor and riding military-style trucks, descended on Ferguson from across the region, firing tear gas and pointing assault weapons at the protesters.

    But Mr. Holder said officials from the Justice Department’s Office of Community Oriented Policing Services were working with the police in St. Louis County to review the response to the protests as part of a “collaborative reform effort.”

    That effort will cover racial profiling, police response to mass demonstrations and other areas of concern. While it is not a criminal review, officials said they would refer any criminal behavior they uncover to federal prosecutors.
    Chief Jon M. Belmar of the St. Louis County Police Department said he had invited the Justice Department to conduct the collaborative reform effort and was confident in his department’s practices and training.

    “I wasn’t compelled to do it,” Chief Belmar said at a news conference Thursday. “We’re not afraid to have outside reviewers in here.”

    Justice Department officials have said that Mr. Holder and his aides were struck by news reports after Mr. Brown’s shooting about previous accusations of police misconduct in Ferguson.

    One involved a 2009 case in which an African-American man said that officers had beaten him and then charged him with damaging government property because his blood had gotten on their uniforms.

    And in November 2013, the Missouri State Conference of the N.A.A.C.P. filed a complaint with the Justice Department accusing a white lieutenant with the St. Louis County Police of ordering his officers to focus on arresting blacks to curtail shoplifting in the South County Center mall area, sanctioning unlawful stops and searches, and making racial slurs. The lieutenant was fired.

    “I don’t think there is any question there’s a basis” for the investigation, Mr. Holder said.

    Manny Fernandez contributed reporting from Ferguson, Mo.

    © 2014 The New York Times Company

  8. #23

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    Meanwhile, a video has emerged of eyewitness accounts of the Brown shooting by two construction workers:



    EDIT: Video removed from YouTube.

    Embedded at CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/fer...html?hpt=hp_t1
    Last edited by ZippyTheChimp; September 15th, 2014 at 06:56 PM.

  9. #24

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    Video went dead.

  10. #25

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    Rudy Giuliani Thinks The Problem In Ferguson Is Black-On-Black Crime



    By Prachi Gupta | November 24, 2014 - 09:54AM

    Remember Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor who supported and expanded the controversial stop-and-frisk policy during his tenure? Well, he was invited to participate in a panel about the heightened racial tensions in Ferguson after that white cop killed an unarmed black teenager, and predictably, his comments on race angered a lot of people.

    NBC Meet the Press host Chuck Todd kicked off the discussion by citing a Washington Post study that identified police forces in America that are disproportionately whiter than the neighborhoods they serve — as is the case in Ferguson. One theory is that, if those forces don’t diversify, “all of those could become future Fergusons,” said Todd. “How do you make a police force that looks like the community they serve?”


    The answer to this question is nuanced and complicated, and the Post itself has reported that diversifying police forces is not, by itself, the solution to alleviating the tension between white police forces and minority communities they serve. However, that is not the debate that took place on Sunday, because Giuliani hijacked the conversation to fit his own agenda.


    Instead, Giuliani wanted to talk about how “Ninety-three percent of blacks are killed by other blacks.”


    “I would like to see the attention paid to that that you are paying to this, and the solutions to that,” he said.


    Guiliani, it’s worth noting, did not mention the similarly high rate of white-on-white crime, which Vox recently reported is “out of control” — “a staggering 83 percent of white murder victims were killed by fellow Caucasians” in 2011.


    “That’s a false equivalency that the [former] Mayor has drawn, which exacerbates tensions that are deeply embedded in American culture,” responded Georgetown professor and frequent MSNBC contributor Michael Eric Dyson. “Black people who kill black people go to jail. White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail.”


    Giuliani began talking over Dyson, and insisted that black-on-black crime is “the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community.”


    Dyson countered with, “The police presence cannot make the distinction between those who are criminals, and those who call the police to stop the criminals.”


    Things got really bad when Giuliani outright said, “If you wouldn’t be killing each other…” to Dyson, characterizing Dyson, a black man, as a criminal.


    Watch the clip above and be grateful that Giuliani’s no longer the mayor of New York City.

    http://animalnewyork.com/2014/rudy-g...k-black-crime/

  11. #26

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    What planet is Rudy Giuliani on? A nasty violent streak of racism lies just beneath some sections of US society. The verdict not to prosecute is, in my cynical view, no big surprise and just displays the blatant racism that exists amongst some of the police. Sometimes I wonder how far we've actually progressed since the civil rights of the 1960's!

  12. #27
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    And you sitting in front of your TV 6700 km away in London know for sure it's racism eventhough a grand jury with access to all the facts and details of the case don't agree with you.

    Last edited by antinimby; November 25th, 2014 at 05:57 PM.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    And you sitting in front of your TV 6700 km away in London know for sure it's racism eventhough a grand jury with access to all the facts and details of the case don't agree with you.

    To be quite fair, the troll did admit to holding a "cynical view."

  14. #29

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    Yes I'm cynical there is much to be cynical about. The Police Chief said that his officers don't use tasers because they aren't 100% effective - well 12 bullets into a person sure are! Overkill? That's more than a firing squad.
    Last edited by Wobert Wedford; November 26th, 2014 at 03:29 PM.

  15. #30
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    Please. You weren't there and don't even have your facts straight. Only some of those bullets actually hit Brown.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/justic...nts/index.html

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