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Thread: Police Shooting in Ferguson

  1. #1

    Default Police Shooting in Ferguson

    'Racism and brutality' or just an excuse to go on the rampage looting and creating mayhem?

    Caught on camera: Police shooting of teenager which has shocked America and left city of Ferguson on the brink as officers face protests over 'racism and brutality' and looters go on rampage


    • Singer Thee Pharoah, 27, witnessed Michael Brown being shot by Officer Darren Wilson outside his Ferguson, Missouri, apartment Saturday
    • The rapper shared two photos from the crime scene, one of them showing Brown's corpse in the street
    • Thee Pharoah wrote that Brown was running when he was shot twice in the back and five more times as a 'barrage' after he turned around
    • Police chief said today Officer Wilson did not know Brown was a robbery suspect when he stopped him last Saturday
    • Wilson stopped Brown and friend Dorian Johnson because they were 'walking in the road and blocking traffic'
    • Brown's family said today the tape was a 'strategic side show aimed at 'denigrating their son'
    • Police released CCTV stills of a robbery minutes before the shooting showing a suspect whose clothing and stature matched Michael Brown
    • Police report released on Friday names Brown as 'the primary suspect'
    • WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ssination.html

  2. #2

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    From the news reports I've seen the Police operating in Ferguson look more like military units, is this the way US policing is going? Has there been any public debate in the US about this approach to policing?

    As the link below states, is it Iraq or Missouri? A valid point, looking at the pictures.

    http://www.vox.com/michael-brown-shooting-ferguson-mo/2014/8/18/6031679/ferguson-missouri-mo-protests-michael-brown-police-military/in/5757650

    http://www.vox.com/2014/8/18/6003377...-military-gear

  3. #3

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    I mentioned this in a few posts, but according to Radley Balko in his book Rise of the Warrior Cop, it's been evolving longer than I thought.

    It's probably a more subtle change in many police departments, more of training and attitude than graphic images. But the mindset leads to the same stupid behavior exhibited by the Ferguson police.

    Why does a small midwestern police department need a Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle? According to the NY Times, 435 MRAPs have been acquired by police departments since 2006.

  4. #4

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    Furguson looks like it is being occupied by a foreign army. How are we any better than the Chinese or Russians? It's a disgrace.

  5. #5

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    We're better because we can talk about it.

  6. #6

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    When you have rioting and looting, the cops SHOULD be going paramilitary.

    In point of fact, I think they've been softpeddling the response, or the civil disturbance would have been shut down after the first night. They've let this go on way too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wobert Wedford View Post
    From the news reports I've seen the Police operating in Ferguson look more like military units, is this the way US policing is going? Has there been any public debate in the US about this approach to policing?

    As the link below states, is it Iraq or Missouri? A valid point, looking at the pictures.

    http://www.vox.com/michael-brown-shooting-ferguson-mo/2014/8/18/6031679/ferguson-missouri-mo-protests-michael-brown-police-military/in/5757650

    http://www.vox.com/2014/8/18/6003377...-military-gear

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    When you have rioting and looting, the cops SHOULD be going paramilitary.

    In point of fact, I think they've been softpeddling the response, or the civil disturbance would have been shut down after the first night. They've let this go on way too long.
    Right. Bring in the tanks and the flame throwers.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    We're better because we can talk about it.
    I suppose. But as they say, talk is cheap.

  9. #9

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    Talk isn't cheap when you don't have it.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    I think they've been softpeddling the response, or the civil disturbance would have been shut down after the first night.
    What act of civil disturbance precipitated the initial response by the police?

  11. #11

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    It doesn't matter. Accommodate the peaceful protest as well as possible while shutting down the rioting an looting. Under no circumstances do you let that get rolling and stay rolling.

    And they better figure out how to do it. I think it's more likely than not that the cop who shot Brown either may not be charged (although the prosecutors may be forced to for PR/political reasons even if they think they'll lose), or will get acquitted. In a lot of ways, this is going to be a replay of the events that followed the Zimmerman case once that broke cover. At some point the people who what to see the cop hang are going to be very disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    What act of civil disturbance precipitated the initial response by the police?
    Last edited by BBMW; August 20th, 2014 at 12:49 AM.

  12. #12

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    Actually, it does matter.

    The primary role of the police is to protect citizens. It's the opposite of the military, which is to occupy and control, and protect themselves.

    At no time since the shooting were the protesters a monolithic group, bent on rioting; but that's how the police treated them. They requested a no-fly zone over the town from the FAA when the protests began, which is still in force. So there has been no reporting from helicopters, no sense of the overall sequence of events, only on the ground images of people running from tear gas and flash grenades. At one point it appeared that one police line was forcing a crowd back, only to be confronted by another line of police in that direction.

    One cop was caught on tape yelling, "Come on. Bring it on you fuc_ing animals."

    And the reporters who had found a safe place in a McDonald's to set up and recharge equipment, who were told to leave by the police (no request by the store manager). Two were arrested, one later stating that the cop was impatient with how long it was taking him to pack up, and pointing a firearm at him the whole time.

    Unless there is an immediate danger, the police should never point a firearm at a civilian, much less indiscriminately into a crowd.

    The Ferguson police have behaved unprofessionally and stupidly, and judging by his press conferences, Thomas Jackson must be the most clueless police chief in the country. I expect there will be a federal probe of the department, and Jackson may be gone.

    As for Darren Wilson...

    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW
    In a lot of ways, this is going to be a replay of the events that followed the Zimmerman case once that broke cover.
    This tells me that you haven't followed this case at all.

    This happened on a busy street in the middle of the day. There are many witnesses. There have been two autopsies, and a third is being conducted by the Justice Department in a parallel investigation. The results of the second are reported to be consistent with the eyewitness accounts that have been released.

    I see a second-degree murder charge.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW
    (although the prosecutors may be forced to for PR/political reasons even if they think they'll lose), or will get acquitted.
    What evidence leads you to believe that a criminal prosecution would not be justified? I haven't heard a shred of evidence that the shooting was justified, unless an endorsement that he is a "good cop" is evidence. That of course, came from the police chief.

  13. #13

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    So you think the rioting and looting is justified? As I said, I have no problem with the peaceful protest. But there's a line, and if someone crosses it, the need to be shut down, hard if necessary.

    As far as the case against the cop goes. There are lots of witnesses, and lots of conflicting stories. We do know this: The cop was injured, he had a broken facial bone, which backs the story that Brown slugged him while he was in his cruiser. I've heard that he fired the gun in the cruiser while they were fighting over it. That would be easily confirmable. And Browns gunshot injuries are consistent with him being shot at while charging the cop. Combine this with the video of him robbing the convenience store minutes before, and he isn't looking too innocent.

  14. #14

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    Apparently the original eyewitness accounts (that Brown had his hands up, was surrendering, and was shot in the back), are falling apart.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...hands-up-story

    On Monday night, the Washington Redskins ran onto the field of play in their exhibition game with their hands up. The goal, according to safety Brandon Meriweather, was to “show our supporters what’s going on in St. Louis.” More specifically, Meriweather was referencing the supposed circumstances surrounding the shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson; early witness reports stated that Brown had raised his hands before beings hot by Wilson.

    The Redskins were hardly the only people parroting the “hands up” meme – that meme has now gone national, with protesters and rioters in Ferguson utilizing it, hundreds of students at Howard University throwing up their hands, and Harvard Law Professor Charles Ogletree suggesting that Officer Darren Wilson be arrested based on the “hands up” story.
    There is only one problem: the “hands up” story comes from witnesses with significant flaws in their stories.
    There were three witnesses who said that Brown was fleeing with his “hands up”: Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell, and Piaget Crenshaw. All three also had another element of their story in common: they said that Brown was shot from behind.
    According to Dorian Johnson, Wilson pulled Brown and him over to the side of the road, where he then attempted to pull the 6’4”, 300 lb. Brown through the window of his patrol vehicle. Johnson stated, “The second time he says, ‘I’ll shoot,’ a second later the gun went off and he let go. That’s how we were able to run at the same time.” Johnson told USA Today that “the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot, which struck Brown in the back.”
    Similarly, Mitchell stated that Wilson “was trying to pull him in” to the car. She added that after a shot went off, Brown ran. She then stated that after Brown ran perhaps 20 feet, “Michael jerks his body, as if he’s been hit.”
    Crenshaw tells the same story: she says, “I saw the police chase him…down the street and shoot him down.” Both Crenshaw and Mitchell say that when Brown turned around, Wilson continued firing.
    The autopsy released on Monday demonstrated that Brown was not in fact shot in the back. He had no wounds to the back whatsoever, despite Brown family attorney Daryl Parks allegedly lying in his press conference that it was “clear” that “the direction of the bullet was in a back-to-front direction.” That prompted Crenshaw to change her story on CNN regarding Brown being shot in the back.
    And Dorian Johnson’s story was chock full of holes. It somehow neglected the fact that he and Brown allegedly participated in a strong-arm robbery of a convenience store shortly before they were pulled over by Officer Wilson. Johnson also said that after Brown was shot and “fell dramatically into the fatal position,” he was “hurt…I could see it in his eyes. It was definitely like being shot like an animal.” Dr. Michael Baden, who performed an autopsy for the family, stated clearly that Brown did not feel pain after he was shot in the head.
    Dozens of witnesses have reportedly told another story, according to Christine Byers of theSt. Louis Post-Dispatch: they say that Brown attacked Wilson through the window of his car, punched him, attempted to reach for Wilson’s gun, then ran. When Wilson shouted at them to freeze, Brown turned around and charged Wilson, prompting the shooting. According to one of the officer’s friends in a call to The Dana Loesch Show, the last shot hit Brown in the head, and the teenager fell “two or three feet in front of Wilson.”
    Also, while the original witnesses reported by the media claimed that Wilson attacked Brown, sources have alleged that it was Wilson who suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket” as a result of the encounter.
    Despite the fact that the witnesses in the “hands up” narrative seem to contradict themselves, the media coverage has now made Dorian Johnson’s story the narrative known around the country. The perception that young black men are apt to be shot while surrendering to police has been reinforced – it has now made its way west, to Los Angeles, where protesters of Ezell Ford’s shooting are now falsely parroting the Dorian Johnson Ferguson narrative. Ford was shot by two police officers after an alleged scrum in which Ford supposedly reached for one of the officers’ gun; no witnesses reportedly allege that Ford held his hands up to surrender to police. Nonetheless, protester Nicole Tinson, a 23-year-old graduate student at Yale Divinity School, said, “It’s absolutely ridiculous. A man who holds his hands up is surrendering himself.”
    The “hands up” story may be true; then again, it may be false. But it is true in the minds of millions of black people around the United States, thanks to a media eager for a race controversy – and it will remain the dominant story, no matter what the truth is.
    Ben Shapiro is Senior Editor-At-Large of Breitbart News and author of the new book,The People vs. Barack Obama: The Criminal Case Against The Obama Administration (Threshold Editions, June 10, 2014). He is also Editor-in-Chief of TruthRevolt.org.Follow Ben Shapiro on Twitter @benshapiro.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    So you think the rioting and looting is justified?
    You haven't established the parameters of the rioting and looting. As I already said, the crowd was not monolithic. Could you describe the entire crowd, or even the majority, as rioting; or were there just incidents.

    As I said, I have no problem with the peaceful protest. But there's a line, and if someone crosses it, the need to be shut down, hard if necessary.
    So who crossed the line, and when? The initial response by police - when the protest was peaceful - was confrontational and violent. So if one person "crosses the line," everyone is put at risk by using tear gas and flash grenades? Or were these methods first used merely for crowd dispersal, to deny First Amendment rights?

    ar as the case against the cop goes. There are lots of witnesses, and lots of conflicting stories.
    There are basically two stories. One by eyewitnesses, and one by Wilson. There has been some confusion about a woman named "Josie" who has given an account which corroborates that of Wilson, which multiplied into many sources that also backed it up. But she is a friend of Wilson, and called in his account to a radio station. That is heresay.

    We do know this: The cop was injured, he had a broken facial bone, which backs the story that Brown slugged him while he was in his cruiser.
    Both Brown's friend and the woman who taped the aftermath from her apartment window have said that there was a struggle between Wilson and Brown at the car. Brown was not fatally shot while in contact with Wilson.

    [quote]
    And Browns gunshot injuries are consistent with him being shot at while charging the cop.
    The second autopsy revealed that only two of the shots that hit Brown were fatal. One entered his head above the right eyebrow, exited his jaw and reentered his shoulder. Another shot entered the top of his head.

    Combine this with the video of him robbing the convenience store minutes before, and he isn't looking too innocent.
    Bill O'Reilly stuff.

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