Reply With Quote"That way we wouldn't have to change the flag." I don't understand this remark. Because of critical mass?
NYC became tied to upstate with the Erie canal.
Jersey City Rising
That's right, New Netherlands extended from the Connecticut River to the Delaware River so today's NY, NJ, and western Conn. and Mass. were the same Dutch colony. When the British took over NJ was granted as gifts to Lord Berkeley and Sir George Carteret. That simple gesture had huge repercussions.
It doesn't make much sense today why New York City is is so narrowly attached to New York State, but historically it was all about the Hudson River. There are plenty of Upstaters who want to split away from NYC, LI, and Westchester. If that happened, I think the southern NY state would be even better if it annexed New Jersey! That way we wouldn't have to change the flag.
"Westchester and LI are not farther than NJ."
Of course not, they touch NYC without a river between. However, NJ is closer to Manhattan than are Westchester and LI.
Jersey City Rising
"That way we wouldn't have to change the flag." I don't understand this remark. Because of critical mass?
NYC became tied to upstate with the Erie canal.
Jersey City Rising
"What nonsense. If anything, northern NJ is a mainland appendix of NYC. Now quit deluding yourself." - Christian Wieland
Yeah, that makes sense, a small island ruling a large land mass more than 5 times larger than it. Take a look at a map.
Either way it doesn't make a difference, the point was that New York and New Jersey are interdependant and any benefits New Jersey gets from New York is well deserved after centuries of supplying workers and industries.
Are there any geologists in the house?
Jersey City Rising
Who cares about land area? Look at the power relation, dummy.
Jersey City Rising
NYC is comprised of five boroughs, not just the island of Manhattan. Take a look at a map.
Jersey City Rising
If New York divides in two, there would be 51 states, but if one of them were to annex New Jersey there would still be 50 states and the American flag wouldn't have to change (and wreck the perfect symmetry of the star pattern).
NYC became tied to upstate in the early 1600s with the fur trade. Albany was the inland trading post, New Amsterdam was the coastal port. They were closely linked by business, culture, and government from the very beginning. The Hudson River was the connection. Construction of the Erie Canal didn't begin for another two hundred years, and yes, strengthened the tie.
Jersey City Rising
I thought you meant the NY State flag. I doubt Downstate could annex more than northern NJ.
The history is interesting. I don't think the state should split because Upstate has become a burden and thinks Downstate is (how dishonest and absurd, by the way). It might rebound and has nice natural escapes from the city.
(Edited by Christian Wieland at 1:05 pm on Jan. 24, 2003)
Jersey City Rising
Population-wise, New York City and New Jersey are roughly equal, both being around 8 million. *So the question of annexation is kind of mute - it would probably be a "merger of equals."
Jersey City Rising
I don't see how southern NJ is tied to the city.
(Edited by Christian Wieland at 2:27 pm on Jan. 24, 2003)
Jersey City Rising
Let Pennsylvania have South Jersey, they always wanted a shoreline. On second thought, screw them, we'll take the length of the shore. Give them Camden County.
Jersey City Rising
If it came to that, if the 5 boroughs broke away from upstate, we could also invite Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Orange, Sullivan, Ulster, and Duchess in New York, and Fairfield, Litchfield, and New Haven counties in Connecticut, plus Hudson, Essex, Union, Bergen, Passaic, Sussex, Morris, Warren, Hunterdon, Mercer, Somerset, Middlesex, Monmouth, and Ocean counties in New Jersey into the fold. The result could be a 31-county new state bigger than any state except California, highly centralized, opposed to sprawl, culturally diverse, and economically vibrant, with a population exceeding 21 million. All the counties listed here, plus the five boroughs, essentially make up New York Metro. *
Jersey City Rising
A lot of Armchair Napoleons here, plotting NYC's imperial expansion...
Jersey City Rising
Jersey City skyline is impressive for a city it size. Its skyline will make it more interesting for sure with New York's skyline. Still, I think New York will have more amneities then Jersey City. New York and New Jersey will always have to help each other ecomically, when times are good and bad.
Jersey City Rising
The suburban counties would never join. They are content to be to a certain extent independent from the city and sprawl. They would never accept to be politically ruled by it.
Jersey City Rising
"Who cares about land area? Look at the power relation, dummy.
NYC is comprised of five boroughs, not just the island of Manhattan. Take a look at a map."
- Christian Wieland
Whether you're talking about Manhattan or all of the other borughs, or even Logn Island with it, they still pale in comparison to the size of New Jersey.
As for power relation, where would New York be without all of the services New Jersey offers? Also, do you really think one city has more power than a whole state? That was the point I was trying to make, that NYC depends on the workers and industries of New Jersey, but you apparantly want to make the discussion out of any lirrelevant mistake that I make in my posts.
As for calling me a "dummy", what are you, 6?
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