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Thread: Tappan Zee Bridge Alteration or Replacement

  1. #76

    Default

    great, good info. I totally agree that BRT should be nixed; it's a horrible idea.

  2. #77

    Default Final Decision

    So I'd like to know, what is everyone's opinion on the possible decision for the corridor? BRT? Commuter Rail? What do you think the government will pick? Will they go the utterly cheap and uninformed route and pick BRT? I really have no idea. I'm leaning towards commuter rail, but it is very hard to gauge the project.

  3. #78
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    Default

    they will choose the cheapest. it is their way.

  4. #79

    Default Tunnel dreams

    I realize that the idea of using a tunnel to replace the TZB has been proposed and rejected. However, I have yet to read a good explanation about why a tunnel is not a good idea. I suspect it is mostly political.

    Tunnel Pros:
    1. Tunnel technology very advanced today. Construction has little to no impact on surface.
    2. Flexibility on routing and size.
    3. Reclaim above ground real estate, especially the 287 corridor from Tarrytown to Port Chester). This may even pay for a lot of the tunnel costs.
    4. Road bed not subject to weather (plowing, freeze, thaw, salt, etc.)
    5. Possibility to extend tunnel across LI sound to provide a route bypassing the congested Whitestone and Throggsneck.
    6. Controlled ventilation, scrub pollution before released above ground.

    Tunnel Cons:
    1. A lot more above ground contractors than below ground. Politics as they are, the bridge lobby will beat with tunnel lobby by simple numbers.
    2. Tunnel is not aethetic. Purely functional. Hard sell for something you can't see in the sunlight.
    3. Boston's Big Dig still a sore memory.
    4. Claustrophobics?
    5. Geology?

    Paul

  5. #80
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    Default

    What is their final proposal? Any news?

  6. #81

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    All I know is that they recently eliminated LRT for Rockland County, which will probably mean no LRT for the entire project. They said it was too slow. Yeah, LRT is too slow, but BRT is plenty fast. Okay

  7. #82
    Architectural Padawan
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    Default

    well, hopefully that will mean that BRT will be the next to go... leaving just do nothing and CRT as options

  8. #83

    Default

    And then that will probably end up being eliminated b/c of the expense of having to tunnel 13 miles under westchester

  9. #84
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    Ok, so I'm a little ticked off as I write this.... I've heard from a reliable source that the residents of Montebello are going to fight a train stop should the CRT proposal pass. They're argument is that the stop will increase the urbanization of their village which the residents are aggressively protecting. Of course they're not taking into account the fact that they can via zoning regulations completely control every aspect of building that can occur on any private property in the village!

    As for why I'm so upset; The Airmont/Montebello CRT stop is the stop that I'd be using to go visit my parents... I'm sitting on a bus going to the Port Authority as I write this, and place Coach USA one rung above Microsoft on the list of companies i loathe.

  10. #85

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deimos View Post
    Ok, so I'm a little ticked off as I write this.... I've heard from a reliable source that the residents of Montebello are going to fight a train stop should the CRT proposal pass. They're argument is that the stop will increase the urbanization of their village which the residents are aggressively protecting. Of course they're not taking into account the fact that they can via zoning regulations completely control every aspect of building that can occur on any private property in the village!

    As for why I'm so upset; The Airmont/Montebello CRT stop is the stop that I'd be using to go visit my parents... I'm sitting on a bus going to the Port Authority as I write this, and place Coach USA one rung above Microsoft on the list of companies i loathe.
    I've heard that argument made before as a reason why Rockland and Orange shouldn't have decent commuter rail. While more people may be inclined to move to Rockland and Orange due to the fact that Westchester is less affordable, pre-emptive zoning laws could prevent monster sprawl from happening. Over on the other side of the Hudson, Putnam and Dutchess Counties are absorbing more residents and more sprawl (and higher taxes as a result). People in western Rockland and in Orange would be wise to limit new growth while accepting viable transit for those who will inevitably move into their towns.

    BTW, expanding commuter rail to Ulster and Columbia County would also help. It would be nice to be able to live in or around a place like Hudson or New Paltz and be able to commute daily to NYC. Unfortunately, this probably won't happen, and highspeed rail would be needed in order to bring down commuting times.

  11. #86

    Default

    You're wrong: we need higher density development around train stations. It's called New Urbanism or transit-oriented development. I'm talking about traditional, walking villages with mixed uses and incomes densely packed around train stations, or ferry docks. We need to limit the use of automobiles and the proliferation of McMansions, Big-Box stores, and parking lots. We need to protect and preserve open space, and the only way to do this is by limiting development to high density, compact developments in downtown areas. We need to expand our state parks and conservation land. We need to stop building roads and build trolleys on existing roads. We need to stop the spread of suburbia, a cancer that is infecting all of the metropolitan area. Sprawl is the direct effect of the automobile. We need to restrict auto use indefinitely.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarod213 View Post
    You're wrong: we need higher density development around train stations. It's called New Urbanism or transit-oriented development. I'm talking about traditional, walking villages with mixed uses and incomes densely packed around train stations, or ferry docks. We need to limit the use of automobiles and the proliferation of McMansions, Big-Box stores, and parking lots. We need to protect and preserve open space, and the only way to do this is by limiting development to high density, compact developments in downtown areas. We need to expand our state parks and conservation land. We need to stop building roads and build trolleys on existing roads. We need to stop the spread of suburbia, a cancer that is infecting all of the metropolitan area. Sprawl is the direct effect of the automobile. We need to restrict auto use indefinitely.
    Public transit is more prevelant in the NYC metro area than in any city in America. This above post is restricted to the NYC metro area.

  13. #88

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    The Journal News
    December 13, 2007

    Bronx man in critical condition after jumping from Tappan Zee Bridge

    By NICOLE NEROULIAS AND LESLIE KORNGOLD

    A Bronx man rescued after jumping from the Tappan Zee Bridge into the Hudson River this morning is in critical condition at the Westchester Medical Center, State police said.

    The 44-year-old man "just popped out of his car and took one great leap," said State police station commander Sgt. John Antonelli. "There was no chance to talk to him," he said witnesses told him.

    The man stopped his north-bound 2006 Jeep Liberty so suddenly that the tractor trailer behind him nearly crashed into him, Antonelli said.

    He was moving his arms in the water slightly after the jump, Antonelli said.

    The jumper was reported at 8:51 a.m. from the westbound side of the bridge.

    There was nothing in his car to explain his action, Antonelli said. There was a kitchen knife on the front seat, he said, but no blood anywhere.

    Several lanes on the bridge were blocked briefly, causing heavy delays, but they reopened by 9:05 a.m. Nyack, Piermont and Tarrytown rescue boats responded to the scene.

    Police are still in the process of contacting the man's family.

    Over the past 10 years, nearly 30 people have jumped to their deaths from the bridge.

    The last attempt came Nov. 10, when a 40-year-old Chappaqua resident was rescued from the Hudson River after jumping from the bridge.

    The last fatality was on March 20, when 28-year-old Sean Michael McKeever of Sullivan County jumped to his death.

    Copyright © 2007 The Journal News

  14. #89
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    Default Say bye-bye to the Tappan Zee

    The New York Times - September 27, 2008
    State to Replace, Not Rebuild, Tappan Zee Bridge

    By WILLIAM NEUMAN

    State officials announced an ambitious plan on Friday to replace the Tappan Zee Bridge with a new bridge with room for commuter trains and high-speed bus lanes. The price tag for a new bridge and expanded rail and bus lines: $16 billion.

    Officials did not say how they would pay for the project; they said they would work with a financial adviser to come up with financing options. The state transportation commissioner, Astrid C. Glynn, said that the state would seek federal financing for part of the project and that a partnership involving some form of private financing would also be considered.

    “This is obviously a very significant investment for the state,” Ms. Glynn said in a telephone interview after a formal announcement in Tarrytown. “At this point, all options have to be on the table.”

    Officials said the bridge itself would cost $6.4 billion. A high-speed bus corridor running from Suffern to Port Chester would cost $2.9 billion. And it would cost an additional $6.7 billion to build a new rail line that would go from the Metro-North station in Suffern and across the bridge, connecting with Metro-North’s Hudson Line south of Tarrytown.

    Gov. David A. Paterson did not attend the Tarrytown announcement, but a news release from the State Department of Transportation quoted him as saying that he was pleased that a decision had been made on how to proceed with the project.

    The plan will now go through a two-year environmental review process as officials consider alternative designs for the bridge and the bus and rail projects.

    Ms. Glynn said that if the state could stick to what she described as an aggressive schedule, construction could begin as early as 2012 and the bridge could open four or five years after that. She said plans call for the bus corridor to be opened at the same time. The rail component could take much longer, but the bridge would be built with room for trains to cross.

    The new bridge would be built adjacent to the old one, which would remain open until the new one was completed.

    Officials also looked at the possibility of rehabilitating the current bridge, which was built 52 years ago, but Ms. Glynn said that was a costly and complex project.

    “The old bridge, although it is safe, is substandard,” Ms. Glynn said. She said that it did not meet today’s engineering standards, was in need of repairs and was costly to maintain. She also said that the population in the surrounding counties had grown substantially since it was built and that the transit component was necessary to accommodate future growth.

    Discussion of the costly project came against the background of economic turmoil on Wall Street and looming state budget deficits.

    “While it is difficult in today’s climate to look at that project, it’s an important part of how we are going to make sure we are well equipped to deal with the next century,” Ms. Glynn said.

    The project has gone through a lengthy planning process involving state transportation officials, the State Thruway Authority and the Metro-North Railroad.

    Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

  15. #90

    Default

    This bridge is long overdue for a replacement, finally.

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