Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: More Than Black and White - Latinos and the notion of race

  1. #1

    Default More Than Black and White - Latinos and the notion of race

    June 20, 2003

    More Than Black and White

    The growth of the Latino population in the mainland United States has been head spinning. In just two years, from April 2000 to July 2002, the number of Hispanics grew 9.8 percent, nearly four times as fast as the general population. Their ranks have doubled since 1980. This week, as expected, the Census Bureau confirmed that Hispanics — nearly 40 million of them — now make up the nation's largest minority group. That is part of a larger trend that makes old views of race, in terms of black and white, incomplete and in need of rethinking.

    Current census forms ask respondents to categorize themselves by race, then to answer whether they are Hispanic or not. Latinos can be of any race, but when they are forced to select one, many have used white as a default choice. More than half of Latinos, as the Pew Hispanic Center found, see themselves as Hispanic or Latino or "other" — outside the traditional racial boxes. Simply put, most Latinos do not see themselves playing in the colored jerseys that are provided. They are not alone. Other portions of the American population — like Arab-Americans — find no easy fit in the official count.

    The United States is a country that once divided the world between black and white so rigidly that a single nonwhite ancestor far back on the family tree was enough to determine a person's racial category. Now our concept of race is, happily, far broader. Intermarriage has created a growing population of people who think of themselves as multiracial or "other" because they have roots in more than one camp. Hispanics and other growing minority groups have helped remind us of the many ways Americans find to define themselves.

    Culture and language, the markers that unite most Hispanics, are often diluted through the generations. But other forces — like inter-American commerce, the reach of Spanish-language media, the emergence of majority Hispanic communities and the connection with ancestral homelands by way of the Internet — guarantee that assimilation won't displace heritage.

    America looks far different than it did half a century ago, when 87 percent of the population was white, 10 percent was black and the small remainder was Asian, Hispanic and Native American. Shifts in percentages will never erase 300 years of racial history, nor should they. But it's time for new chapters to be written.

    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

  2. #2

    Default More Than Black and White

    I wonder what advantage could come with a larger population. There is a higher concentration down South though.

  3. #3

    Default More Than Black and White

    July 11, 2003

    Is Race Real?


    OXFORD, England

    I had my DNA examined by a prominent genetic specialist here, and what do you know! It turns out I'm African-American.

    The mitochondria in my cells show that I'm descended from a matriarch who lived in Africa, possibly in present-day Ethiopia or Kenya.

    O.K., this was 70,000 years ago, and she seems to be a common ancestor of all Asians as well as all Caucasians. Still, these kinds of DNA analyses illuminate the raging scientific debate about whether there is anything real to the notion of race.

    "There's no genetic basis for any kind of rigid ethnic or racial classification at all," said Bryan Sykes, the Oxford geneticist and author of "The Seven Daughters of Eve." "I'm always asked is there Greek DNA or an Italian gene, but, of course, there isn't. . . . We're very closely related."

    Likewise, The New England Journal of Medicine once editorialized bluntly that "race is biologically meaningless."

    Take me. Dr. Sykes looked at a sequence of my mitochondrial DNA to place me on a kind of global family tree. It would have been nice to learn that my ancestors hailed from a village on Loch Ness, but ancestry can almost never be pegged that precisely, and I appear to be a mongrel. One of my variants, for example, is scattered among people in Finland, Poland, Armenia, the Netherlands, Scotland, Israel, Germany and Norway.

    On the other hand, is race really "biologically meaningless"? Bigotry has been so destructive that it's tempting to dismiss race and ethnicity as artificial, but there are genuine differences among population groups.

    Jews are more likely to carry mutations for Tay-Sachs, Africans for sickle cell anemia. It's hard to argue that ethnicity is an empty concept when one gene mutation for an iron storage disease, hemochromatosis, affects fewer than 1 percent of Armenians but 8 percent of Norwegians.

    "There is great value in racial/ ethnic self-categorizations" for medicine, protested an article last year by a Stanford geneticist, Neil Risch, in Genome Biology. It warned against "ignoring our differences, even if with the best of intentions."

    DNA does tend to differ, very slightly, with race. Profilers thought a recent serial killer in Louisiana was white until a DNA sample indicated he was probably black. (A black man has been arrested in the case.) As genetic science advances, the police may eventually be able to recover semen and put out an A.P.B. for a tall white rapist with red curly hair, blue eyes and perhaps a Scottish surname.

    On the other hand, genetic markers associated with Africans can turn up in people who look entirely white. Indians and Pakistanis may have dark skin, but genetic markers show that they are Caucasians.

    Another complication is that African-Americans are, on average, about 17 percent white: they have mitochondria (maternally inherited) that are African, but they often have European Y chromosomes. In other words, white men raped or seduced their maternal ancestors.

    Among Jews, there are common genetic markers, including some found in about half the Jewish men named Cohen. But this isn't exactly a Jewish gene: the same marker is also found in Arabs.

    "Genetics research is now about to end our long misadventure with the idea of race," Steve Olson writes in his new book, "Mapping Human History."

    When I lived in Japan in the 1990's, my son Gregory had a play date with a classmate I hadn't met. I asked Gregory, then 5, whether the boy's mother was Japanese.

    "I don't know," Gregory replied.

    "Well," I asked sharply, "did she look Japanese or American?" Although he'd lived in Tokyo for years, Gregory replied blankly, "What does a Japanese person look like?"

    He was ahead of his time. Genetics increasingly shows that racial and ethnic distinctions are real — but often fuzzy and greatly exaggerated. Genetics will increasingly show that most humans are mongrels, and it will make a mockery of racism.

    "There are meaningful distinctions among groups that may have implications for disease susceptibility," said Harry Ostrer, a genetics expert at the New York University School of Medicine. "The right-wing version of this is `The Bell Curve,' and that's pseudoscience — that's not real. But there can be a middle ground between left-wing political correctness and right-wing meanness."

    I'll be searching for that middle ground this year as I'm celebrating Kwanzaa.

    * * *

    Genetic Bazaar

    Anyone can get a DNA analysis to try to shed light on genetic origins, but for now don't expect to be pegged too precisely. Bryan Sykes of Oxford University founded a company that offers analyses based on the rubric in his book "The Seven Daughters of Eve," and more information is available at . That's the company I used. An alternative is an American company offering DNA analyses with a genealogy focus, .

    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
    Last edited by Kris; October 4th, 2009 at 06:11 PM.

  4. #4

    Default More Than Black and White

    Defining Race, a Thorny Issue

    To the Editor:

    Without providing a biologically meaningful definition of race, Nicholas D. Kristof's July 11 column, "Is Race Real?," makes little sense. How does he define white race? There is no plausible evidence that external appearance is a valid biological criterion of race, nor does the presence of a particular mutation define a race.

    These questions are not just theoretical. Looming on the horizon are drugs that will be marketed to physicians specifically for use in certain racial groups. How will a doctor decide that any given patient needs a white-race or black-race treatment for heart failure?

    Objections to the idea of race are based not on political correctness but on the self-evident point that pigeonholing by race ignores the extraordinary diversity of humanity.

    Boston, July 11, 2003
    The writer is deputy editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.

  5. #5


    November 9, 2003

    Going Beyond Black and White, Hispanics in Census Pick 'Other'


    Patria Rodriguez, an advertising sales director for a women's magazine in New York, takes after her father. With light brown skin and thick, curly hair, she says she resembles the actress Rosie Perez, but some people have asked her if she is Italian, and others have told her she looks like the singer Sade.

    Like many Hispanic Americans, Ms. Rodriguez does not think of herself as black or white. "I acknowledge I have both black and white ancestry in me, but I choose to label myself in nonracial terms: Latina. Hispanic. Puerto Rican. Nuyorican," Ms. Rodriguez, 31, said. "I feel that being Latina implies mixed racial heritage, and I wish more people knew that. Why should I have to choose?"

    As the Hispanic population booms, the fluid ways that she and other Latinos view their racial identities are drawing more attention and fueling the national debate over racial classifications — what they mean, what they should be and whether they are needed at all.

    Now members of the United States' largest minority group, the nation's 38.8 million Hispanics, nearly half of them immigrants, harbor notions of race that are as varied as their Spanish and that often clash with the more bipolar views of many other Americans.

    White? Black? Try "moreno," "trigueno" or "indio," terms that indicate skin shades and ancestry and accommodate several hues.

    This heterogeneity has stumped the Census Bureau. In its 2000 count, almost half the Hispanic respondents refused to identify themselves by any of the five standard racial categories on the census forms: white, black, Asian, American Indian or Alaska native and a category that includes natives of Hawaii and the Pacific Islands. The agency has since been surveying Hispanics to find a way to pinpoint them racially.

    In the census, respondents can mark their ethnicity as Hispanic, but then they are asked to choose a racial label. In 2000, almost half of the Hispanic respondents, 48 percent, identified themselves as white. Only 2 percent chose black.

    But from the light-complexioned to the dark, more than 14 million, or more than 42 percent of all Latino respondents, marked the box labeled "some other race" and wrote in such disparate identities as Mayan, Tejano and mestizo. (An additional 6 percent said they were members of two or more races.)

    The category "some other race" was used almost exclusively by Hispanics; of all those who chose it, 97 percent were Latino. Claudette Bennett, chief of the Census Bureau's racial-statistics branch, said follow-up research showed that a large portion of these respondents wanted Hispanic to be considered their race.

    A recent study by the Lewis Mumford Center for Comparative Urban and Regional Research at the State University of New York at Albany noted that the popularity of the "some other race" category came at the expense of the "white" category, which was the choice of the majority of Latino respondents in 1980.

    "There may have been a sense that being white was part of the process of being assimilated," said John R. Logan, Mumford's director. "There's a trend toward rejecting whiteness as a way of expressing success."

    "That's the big change over time. There's a Latino identity that's neither white nor black, and it's a positive identity."

    While there are clearly white Hispanics and black Hispanics, many more come from racially mixed stock, with white, black and American Indian or other indigenous strains. Even within one family, one sibling may look black by many Americans' standards, another white, and another in between. And factors as disparate as hair texture, education, income and even nationality matter almost as much as skin color in racial self-image.

    Israel Coats, 24, a Dominican who moved to New York when he was 11 and is now studying marketing at Baruch College, is black in physical features and in the way he identifies himself. But in the Dominican Republic, he says, he is called "indio," Indian. That is because even the darkest-skinned Dominican often regards "black" as a synonym for Haitian; the two nations, which share the island of Hispaniola, have a long history of conflict.

    Physical appearance is not even a factor in how some Latinos sort themselves into racial categories.

    Mario Goderich, 36, a police officer in Miami Beach, Fla., who has light brown hair, green eyes and the white skin of his Puerto Rican mother, identifies himself on the census forms as Hispanic and white. His father, Rene Goderich, 62, also identifies himself as white, even though he describes himself as "jabao," the Cuban term for a light-skinned mulatto.

    "Over here there's no `jabao' or `mulatto,' so I say white," said the elder Mr. Goderich, who is from Santiago, Cuba, and lives in New Jersey. "We're all mixed."

    Ms. Rodriguez, the advertising sales director, said one reason she is uncomfortable picking one race is because the words white and black carry political baggage that she does not feel she shares. "White means mostly privilege and black means overcoming obstacles, a history of civil rights," she said. "As a Latina, I can't try to claim one of these."

    Among people of Mexican descent, who make up more than 65 percent of Hispanics in the United States, the racial background includes a strong indigenous influence. Eva Blanco, 32, a college admissions official in San Jose, Calif., said she wished there were a census box labeled "red."

    "In college, a friend would call me a Mayan princess, because I have the nose you see in the pictures of Mayans," she said. "I feel there's nothing that describes my race per se. For the most part, I say I'm Mexican."

    Ellis Cose, who examined racial identity in Latin America for his 1997 book, "Color-Blind: Seeing Beyond Race in a Race-Obsessed World," said these malleable views were quickening the pace of a shift in this country that began in the 1960's, after legal segregation ended and intermarriage became more common.

    Growing numbers of interracial unions are also making the color line a moving target. By 2000, the census showed, interracial couples, including those in which one person was of Hispanic origin, made up 7 percent of marriages and 13 percent to 15 percent of households with unmarried partners.

    "For the first time, the American construct of race is making room for a large group of folks it never made room for before," said Mr. Cose, who is also a contributing editor for Newsweek.

    The growing multiracial population has interfered with the government's accounting of people by race and has become one of the top issues of research and debate among scholars. On Labor Day weekend, Harvard University drew more than 1,000 participants to a "color lines" research conference that delved into the implications for a nation where so much depends on racial categorization: antidiscrimination and voting-rights laws, health and educational statistics and social policies like affirmative action.

    Joel Perlmann, a senior scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College who was a co-editor of "The New Race Question," a 2002 book about how the census counts multiracial people, said the changing demographics were casting doubt on the rationale for the categories themselves.

    "Where do these categories come from?" he asked. "What are their justification? It helps delegitimize race."

    In California, a movement to shelve racial classifications altogether was behind Proposition 54, the unsuccessful measure on last month's recall ballot that sought to halt the collection of most racial and ethnic data by the state government.

    One proponent of the measure was Ward Connerly, the black California businessman who led the winning push for laws in California and Washington State that ban the consideration of race in public university admissions, hiring and government contracting. He argues that racial classifications have become so imprecise as to lose all meaning.

    "We ought to be trying to find a better way of detecting discrimination than this crude way," Mr. Connerly said, adding that he planned to bring another version of Propostition 54 to voters.

    But many civil rights advocates and government officials counter that racial categories, as imperfect as they may be, are the only way to measure disparities among groups and provide remedies. And they say that the way Hispanics see themselves may ultimately be irrelevant if they are still subject to other people's biases.

    Letvia Arza-Goderich, a lawyer in Los Angeles and a cousin of Mr. Goderich, the Miami Beach police officer, said she felt that she was not regarded as white in the United States except among Latinos. Her family left Cuba in the late 1960's, and as a teenager in Wisconsin, Ms. Arza-Goderich said, her white schoolmates regarded her as dark-skinned and used a slur to describe her. It did not matter that she had pale white skin that looked even whiter against her black wavy hair.

    "We were Cubans, and that wasn't white," she said. "My answer was, `Not that it matters, but I'm white just like you because the people I came from were from Spain.' They'd look at you in disbelief.

    "If you're Latino, you're not white-white in the eyes of white Americans," Ms. Arza-Goderich said.

    Still, white Hispanics are more prosperous than other Latinos, the Mumford Center study found. Hispanics who described themselves as white on the 2000 Census had the highest incomes and the lowest rates of unemployment and poverty, and they tended to live closest to non-Latino whites, the study said. Black Hispanics, who live in neighborhoods that have nearly as many African-Americans as Hispanic residents, the study found, had lower incomes and higher rates of poverty and unemployment than other Hispanic groups. In those ways they were similar to non-Hispanic blacks.

    Those who identified themselves as neither white nor black, the study said, were less affluent than white Hispanics but considerably better off than black Hispanics.

    Race relations among Latinos, however, are informed by starkly different experiences compared with those between other groups in America. Among Hispanics, skin color still counts, because Latin American countries have caste systems that discriminate against the dark-skinned. But Latin America did not have Jim Crow laws, or their legacy of bitterness.

    Even in the United States, Hispanics who complain of discrimination by other Latinos do not cite race as a major factor, said a national survey last year by the Pew Hispanic Center and the Kaiser Family Foundation. Among those who said they were the victims of bias, the survey found, 41 percent attributed it to disparities in income and education and 34 percent to differences in country of origin. Only 8 percent said it was because of skin color, the survey said.

    Hispanics, of course, are not the only ones bending racial identity. Matt Kelly, founder of the Mavin Foundation, a national organization based in Seattle that advocates for multiracial Americans, noted that in the 2000 census, nearly seven million Americans identified themselves as belonging to two or more races, not counting the Latinos who picked "some other race."

    And the culture is offering up role models, like Halle Berry and Tiger Woods, who celebrate their multiracial background.

    In Los Angeles, where Hispanics are the largest ethnic group, Ms. Arza-Goderich said she and her husband, who is also Cuban, have never discussed with their three sons "whether they are white, or moreno or what," she said.

    "Race takes a back seat to what they listen to on their CD players, what movies they see," she said. "One is into Japanese anime. Another is immersed in rap. Basically it's the ghetto culture, but ghetto doesn't mean poor or deprived, but hip."

    Her 16-year-old, Ray, has adopted a hip-hop persona and hangs out with Vietnamese, Indian, Chicano, white and black friends. Ms. Arza-Goderich said most of them had Asian girlfriends.

    "They say they're hot," she explained.

    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

  6. #6


    right guys, better study your espaρol because the next Bush in the White House might be Mexican:

    George P. Bush, nephew of George W. Bush, is being groomed as the next in line for the Bush family's political dynasty.

Similar Threads

  1. White Plains: City Center, Other Projects
    By NYguy in forum New York Metro
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: September 18th, 2015, 12:35 AM
  2. Race to build at ground zero
    By Edward in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: August 16th, 2007, 02:12 PM
  3. Fade to Black - Neighborhood movie theaters
    By Kris in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 5th, 2003, 12:11 PM
  4. Chrysler Building - Race to the Sky
    By NYguy in forum New York Skyscrapers and Architecture
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 25th, 2003, 11:52 AM
  5. White nights in St. Petersburg
    By Edward in forum Photography and Travel
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 24th, 2002, 08:47 PM


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software