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Thread: Tall Towers Movement

  1. #16

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    Quote: from JMGarcia on 10:42 am on Feb. 28, 2003
    I think the LMDC has listened to the public quite well. The problem is that they also listened to Silverstein, the PA, Real Estate executives, Corporate Location experts, the victims families, the "anti-arrogance" crowd, and an assortment of other NIMBYS.

    They tried to make the best compromise they could and that was that a very tall building would be built on the site but that it wouldn't be occupied with offices.
    That is 100% false! *If the LMDC did listen to the public then they would have agreed to rebuild the Twins with better saftey modification which the majority of the public wanted them to. *I know that b/c I attended almost every public hearing and heard that plus I was with them on that. *The LMDC always hated the Twins and ignored anything that said that even their own public hearings. * The only reason why the original 6 were hated was b/c none of them were the WTC that everybody knew especially that they didn't have the Twins. *Did the LMDC listen? *The answer is no and instead made new plans that had more cultural space than office space rather than know that a lot of people wanted back the Twins. *Yesterday Alexander Garvin of the LMDC didn't even want to comment on the official poll that Imagine NY would give to him knowing that Libeskind's design was last. *Therefore, there was no true public input on this design and the LMDC chose it themselves.

  2. #17

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    If such an important decision was to be based on popularity, some sort of refenendum would have been needed. And what would that be?
    One person, one vote, or would NYC residents get more weight?
    Registered voters only?
    How about non-US citizens? They participated in polls.

    In the end, do we really want architecture by popular vote?

  3. #18
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    New York City

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    I hear you on the popular vote thing...but that is what they said they were doing. *Listening.

    I would respect them a lot more if they just came out and said "we aren't really going to listen to anyone except ourselves. *we may satisfy a few of your concerns superficially, but in the end we will build what we interpret to be ideal."

    Of course that would never happen. *Why? *Because the public SHOULD be involved. *But everything is too mirky now. *Maybe with more time people will wake up in this city.

    People are going about their routines. *NY is just stagnant right now. *I cannot believe no major figures have even *suggested* that the twin towers could be rebuilt in a different form. *

    THINK misses the mark, the radio spire in Libeskind's plan is not even a building. *Foster was the only one of these architects with any courage. *Guess what? *His was the most popular - in every poll hands down.

  4. #19

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    Well, that's the nature of public agencies. No one wants to stick their neck out. If you want be angry at someone, direct it at Pataki. Besides having control (with NJ gov) over the PA, he appointed half of the LMDC members. More than anyone else, he was in a position to give this process some direction - but he has been a fence-sitting wuss from day one.

    Give the LMDC some credit. They could have chosen P/L. Many on this board feared that. P/L was popular because of it's familiar design - no minor quality in stressful times.
    In the end, the LMDC gave everyone a little. Family members
    get a significant memorial space. The PA gets it's infrastructure underneath. Silverstein gets his office space. Westfield gets underground retail. Residents get street level retail and a good site plan. We all get something tall.

    Of course, all of this is subject to change, and a year from now Edward might delete me from the board for my profanity-laced posts.

  5. #20
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Brownsville, Texas

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    * Gov. George Pataki is a real jerk and he's acting like a real arrogant dictator. *Aren't elected officials suppose to listen to the public majority?? (i.e. democracy)
    I don't see the "freedom of choice" or "democracy" in what's been happening with the WTC rebuilding process. *The whole Libeskind design/effort is based on two men's ego (Pataki and Libeskind) and not on what the people want and/or the best solution for the majority of people involved in this. *Just go and read what the Team Twin Towers has to say about all this on their'll see what I mean.

  6. #21

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    I;mnot sorprised. Pataki is becoming a dictator, and his arrogance is extending far beyond the WTC... for all the obvious reasons. Bloomberg's wrong-headed agenda isn't helping either.

  7. #22

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    August 31, 2003


    Keep Your New Towers. They Want the Towers.


    AT the food court beneath Grand Central Terminal, four radicals are gathered around a table plotting a revolution. Andrew Oliff is 35, lives in Bayside, Queens, and is a neuropathologist. Marcy Mellos is 48, lives in Murray Hill and works as a legal assistant. Joe Wright is 58, a Kentucky native who lives near Gramercy Park and designs voice mail systems. Louis Epstein is 42, lives in Rockland County and runs a small Internet service provider.

    There are relatively few circumstances that might draw together people with seemingly so little in common. Jury duty is one, or an open call for game-show contestants. Group therapy is another, and that gets closer to the truth.

    These four unlikely comrades are the leaders of the World Trade Center Restoration Movement. In close solidarity with one another, and in opposition to the city's political establishment, business leaders, academics and civic groups, and just about everyone else whose opinion matters, the W.T.C.R.M. demands that the World Trade Center towers be rebuilt. Not replaced by something new and supposedly better. Rebuilt, hewing as closely as possible to the design of the buildings that were lost on Sept. 11.

    The members of the group may not be the only ones who dare to mention rebuilding the towers, but they are by far the most visible and the least afraid of humiliation. Their experiences at the public forums convened to discuss ground zero, however, have been painfully disillusioning.

    "The process was a sham," said Ms. Mellos, whose previous political experience was organizing a rent strike in her neighborhood. "Early on, they decided that the high stories could not be tenanted, so they wouldn't bother trying." She paused for a deep breath, but emotion overtook her. "It was a business decision," she cried. "But they made it out like this was the right thing to do."

    For the Restoration Movement, any decision to do anything other than rebuild the towers is the wrong thing to do. And the decision to adopt Daniel Libeskind's plan for a faceted glass tower is the wrongest thing of all.

    Their setbacks have only fueled their resolve and hardened their rhetoric. They now refer to Mr. Libeskind's plan as "a death pit," and they declare, in press releases, that if the towers aren't rebuilt the terrorists will have won. None of this has endeared them to the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, of course. But it has also enraged representatives of the victims' families. "Some people really think that the towers killed their loved ones," Mr. Wright said. "So for supporting the rebuilding of the towers, I was called a murderer."

    Sensing that their ideas were being dismissed, the members began holding meetings at one another's apartments and in coffee shops. They drew up a 1,500-person e-mail list and sent out frequent updates. And they took to the streets, collecting signatures and handing out stickers that read, "YES I'd work on the 110th floor!"

    On July 26, they held a rally at City Hall Park that was preserved on videotape by one of the members. It was an exercise in civil obedience. Competing with the roar of passing buses and the general torpor of a hot summer day, a succession of supporters made heartfelt speeches. The proceedings hit their sharpest edge when Jonathan Hakala, who worked on the 77th floor of 1 World Trade Center, dismissed Mr. Libeskind's tower as "anorexic spires that resemble large drinking straws."

    According to Mr. Oliff, "a lot of passers-by stopped to see what was happening." And at a coffee shop afterward, two tourists told the rally's organizers that the memorial for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing was already suffering a drop-off in attendance. That only confirmed the group's belief that Americans have a short attention span, and formal, somber memorials are a waste of time.

    "You know that joke, `Who is buried in Grant's Tomb?' " Mr. Epstein said. "It became a joke because over time, nobody went there anymore It was forgotten. Because that's what happens when you build things for the dead and not for the living."

    Lately, the group has been fixated on the slurry wall, a part of the twin towers' original foundation that Mr. Libeskind proposes to leave intact and exposed. The Restoration Movement regards that move as structurally unsound and symbolically inappropriate — a way, Mr. Epstein said, of "setting the terrorists' act in stone and forcing us to live with the emptiness they imposed on us."

    Three members of the group knew people who died on Sept. 11, but they say that's not what drives their crusade. Ms. Mellos is motivated by a deep sentimental attachment to the landmarks of the city where she has lived her entire life. Mr. Oliff feels betrayed by politicians who initially supported rebuilding. Mr. Wright, who describes himself as an "Ayn Rand objectivist," views the towers as an expression of "the city's individuality." For Mr. Epstein, who has never lived in New York and didn't know anyone who worked in the towers, rebuilding them is a larger, abstract cause, a matter of patriotism.

    They know that the original World Trade Center was built over the opposition of grass-roots groups like theirs, but that doesn't bother them; once the towers went up, the group says, they became a kind of public trust, and that trust must be defended.

    The Restoration Movement is now trying to organize its own renegade architectural competition, one that posits two tall towers as its starting point. But before a call for submissions can be issued, a jury must be chosen, and that has proved difficult. Mr. Epstein said he has received commitments from two architects and an architectural historian, but he won't name them because "they haven't given me authorization yet."

    Mr. Epstein shook his head. "I don't think there's any doubt that people are afraid of being associated with us," he said. "At the moment, we are the losing team."

    Asked if they believed they would eventually prevail, all four members offered an obligatory yes. Then Ms. Mello recanted. "No," she said. "They will build what they want to build, and they will not care what we say."

    Her colleagues around the table nodded stoically. Then Mr. Epstein piped up. "She's right, we won't win," he said. "Not right away. They will build something like they say they're going to build, because there's too much riding on it for them to back out. The victims groups are still too powerful, too determined to let their personal grief speak for all of us. But it will be a huge failure and everyone will know it, and they will tear it down and rebuild the towers at least as tall as the old ones."

    There were vigorous nods around the table. At last, they had struck upon the blueprint for victory. *

    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

  8. #23

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    Group therapy is another, and that gets closer to the truth.
    That says it all IMO.

    "They will build what they want to build, and they will not care what we say."
    The question they should be asking is why they should care what you say.

    One thing I do agree with is that the tourist "boom" that the memorial is likely to draw is probably vastly over estimated. If there is one it'll probably be for some other attraction at the site.

  9. #24

    Default Tall Towers Movement

    Once again America walks away with it's tail between its legs. Thats at least the way the future WTC design looks. I think that the Twin tower design should have been rebuilt with some design improvements.
    Anything less is a coward's solution.

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