In Rockaways, a Tide Is Coming In

[ramvid01]

That YMCA is really nice looking. Much better than the one in LIC.

[submachine]

your earlier statement about skyrocketing crime is not supported by any statistics

You live in NYC and you trust statistics, crime statistics? Come on. You keep ignoring these, this is less than 4 months ago, and 11 months ago. This is the playgrounds, the schools, the area. Here are your numbers.

September 14, 2006 – A crew tied to the Crips street gang made $1 million a year from trafficking narcotics in a cluster of public housing developments in Far Rockaway, Queens. After an eight-month undercover investigation by the NYPD, 96 people were charged and 81 were arrested. The investigation revealed that the dealers sometimes did transactions on school playgrounds and distributed drugs concealed in the battery compartments of remote-controlled toy cars and trucks; in one instance, a child was used to deliver drugs to an undercover officer.[40]

February 3, 2006 – Police arrested 43 members of a violent Far Rockaway drug gang who instilled fear in over 2,000 residents who lived in the Redfern Houses and Dix McBride Apartments. This gang controlled the narcotics distribution in the area, and is also suspected of being responsible for an epidemic of shootings surrounding the local drug trade.[46]

Your tone seems to suggest that you resent the development for some reason.

The only thing I resent is the false information that was presented here, that the area or the development is in any way successful. It is an abject failure; any house or condo, let alone a brand new one, being on the market for 6 months to over a year. Your tone seems to suggest you want to only focus on what is planned instead of what is there now. Too bad kids can't get an education in a YMCA Or get culture from nursing homes.

[krulltime]

^ Yet again Lokkitto (from Skyscraperpage) attacks Wirednewyork. Please take your crime fantasy world out of this website. Just because a few incidents happened in the Rockways doesn't mean that the area in no man land. This developement will happend and crime probably will go down.

And stop being so ignorant. The other forumers told you already that a new school and a YMCA is planned in the area.

[ZippyTheChimp]

His mistakes are so numerous, he can't be taken seriously.

He cites the same 2 instances twice, and it's Far Rockaway, not Arverne.

He mistrusts statistics, but has evidence that crime rate (esp murders) are skyrokreting in Precincts 100 and 101.. Arverne is in the 100 Precinct, and there was one murder in 2006, down from two in 2005.

He thinks all the housing projects should be flipped into co-ops, but doesn't seem to know what or where they are. The beachfront buildings are already co-ops; the housing project is the Carlton just north of the red shopping area - one low-rise building.

He worries about where the kids are going to go to school, not only ignoring that a new school is planned, but that there already is one (the grey block just above "The Nautilus" tag on the siteplan.

He notes that 80% of Queens nursing homes are in Rockaway, but doesn't explain what that has to do with anything. Wheelchair Crips terrorizing the neighborhood?

He notes that the development is not selling, that The Breakers has been "Now Selling" for years. What a misleading joke. There is nothing to sell east of B73rd st. The sign is a stupid real estate ad sitting in a 100 acre field. They have just staring land prep. There are no streets or utilities. All the completed homes are sold-out.

And to top it off, he states:

The only thing I resent is the false information that was presented here, that the area or the development is in any way successful. It is an abject failure;

Arverne is such a failure that developers just repeated the "mistake" made two years ago by signing on to Arverne East, even further out on Rockaway.



Lokkitto, eh. I'll have to get over there and check out his schtick.

----------------------------------------------

I have several photos that show the reality of the development area. Just need to resize and upload them.

[BrooklynRider]

As I'm sure your photos will show, it is a development that is far more aesthetically pleasing than anyone could've imagined for he Rockaways. It is literally building a new (and rather beautiful) neighborhood from the ground up.

Only thing that will suck is increased traffic. The Rockaways are a easy bypass for heavy Belt Parkway traffic. The traffic patterns have already been altered, in part by construction staging, to disuade thru traffic.

[submachine]

Arverne is in the 100 Precinct, and there was one murder in 2006, down from two in 2005.

The 100 is a "satellite" precinct. Do you understand what that is? Do you know when, why, or how it was formed? Do you understand the political nature of statistics and how satellite precincts may be used to skew them (just like you are unknowingly doing)? Do you understand the geographic shape of Far Rockaway and Arverne?

If you understood any of that, you would see how laughable it is that crime of the area, to you, is better reflected by "one murder in the 100" instead of over 100 drug gang arrests in two days in the 101.

a new school is planned

Your tone seems to suggest you want to only focus on what is planned instead of what is there now. Too bad kids can't get an education in a YMCA

80% of Queens nursing homes are in Rockaway

What a cultural jewel.

All the completed homes are sold-out.

Where are your numbers? How many homes were completed and sold-out? And how many years did it take?

Lokkitto, eh. I'll have to get over there and check out his schtick.

Funny that you believe this accusation so readily, but in light of how easily you swallow the Arverne hype-machine without evidence, its not surprising.

[ZippyTheChimp]

No reason to respond to SSP troll without a clue.

As I'm sure your photos will show, it is a development that is far more aesthetically pleasing than anyone could've imagined for he Rockaways.

The two completed segments, sold out.


There's some kitsch here, like the forced street names (Aquaric Dr), but there are what's advertised as "luxury condos" further west along the beach that don't look as good.

Public school on B78th


And opportunity for development across the street.



Site of the YMCA

[ZippyTheChimp]

Area north of Rockaway Freeway and B73rd.


A jumbled mix of single family homes and commercial sites. Not pretty.
Dept of Sanitation garage on the right.




On the other side of the sanitation garage


The neighborhood housing project, Carlton, from Rockaway Freeway.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Under the El. Retail site is on the left.




View north at B67th


Retail site from Rockaway Brach Blvd. Subway station at B66th will connect with the complex.




Subway station at B60th


Typical street off the east boder of the site. B61st


From the boardwalk on B61st. New home construction off-site.


The entire site from the boardwalk.


I would have preferred if Rockaway Beach Blvd had more retail development along its length and less concentration in one area, but I understand the economic realities.

And hardly noticed in the discussion, the best beach in NYC is next door.

[ramvid01]

Is this part of Queens called Edgemeer, or near it?

[submachine]

Under the El. Retail site is on the left.

Thats where Mario Young was murdered a few months ago. I noticed in all that awesome photography, there are no night photos...not surprised.

"Cops yesterday busted a suspect in the fatal shooting of 16 year-old youth in Far Rockaway. Shakil Chandler, 19, was charged with murdering Mario Young after an argument on Sept. 26." http://www.nypost.com/seven/10032006...ter.htm?page=0

[BrooklynRider]

You'll notice that lots of neighborhoods aren't displayed on WNY photographed at night. It has to do with whether or not there is something that presents an outstanding night-lit photo. The Rockaways are under development and purely residential. Try taking a photo of the ocean at night and post it here. Post a picture of your home at night and post it here. There's not much of interest in a night view of a largely suburban neighborhood.

From my perspective, your point has been made. You despise the Rockaways. You think development is foolish. You think development will fail. You think the area is crime ridden. Thank you for your contributions.

Now, flip your calendar from 1977 to 2007.

Repeating the same thing over and over tends to diminish any appearance of objective, intelligent thinking and one's credibility.

With such disdain for the Rockaways, one would wonder why you have such an obsession with this thread. WNY Forum members are interested in development, architecture and the growth of the city. We're not here finacially speculating with our own money.

The baseless commentary and general negative and underlying nasty tone of the postings under your username certainly indicates an agenda. I think that by posting and reposting here at WiredNewYork you are pursuing that agenda in the wrong place.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Well, that's about enough.

Thats where Mario Young was murdered a few months ago.

Since you know the victim's name, which wasn't mentioned in the article, you must be familiar with the story. The murder occurred at 12-13 Beach Channel Drive. That's at Mott Ave, closer to Nassau, and three miles from where that photo was taken.

Knowing this, you are deliberately posting false information. In my opinion, you are not interested in an intelligent discussion, but only to start an argument.

I'm not going to let that happen.

You'll get an infraction for any posts you make on this thread that I determine are intentionally misleading.

[antinimby]

In Faded Beach Community Seeking Rebirth, Projects and Luxury Homes Meet


Gang fights have plagued the Hammel public housing project, which abuts the upscale Arverne by the Sea
development in the Rockaways.


By COREY KILGANNON
Published: January 7, 2007

In a gritty section of the Rockaways, there is a cluster of new homes that stand out for their catchy colors and modern style. They are laid out in neat clusters with cheery nautical names like Ocean Breeze, The Sands and The Breakers, and there are newly mapped streets with names like Spinnaker Drive.

This is the early phase of the mammoth Arverne by the Sea development, a heralded project to make over a mostly blighted stretch of the Rockaway peninsula into 2,300 homes and condominiums.

There are snazzy showroom apartments with stunning ocean views, and a warm-and-fuzzy short film featuring families frolicking on the beach. The promotional material makes no mention of the surrounding low-income area of meager houses, shabby bungalows and public housing projects, but rather urges potential buyers to “imagine the serenity of living in an oceanfront community.”

That serenity has been interrupted in recent weeks by gunshots from the nearby projects, a spate of violence that has left three young men from the projects dead.

Some community leaders and elected officials say the violence is sparked by an escalating conflict turf war between gangs at several of the housing projects.

“This is a gang war between housing projects,” said Councilman James Sanders Jr., who has met with the police and community leaders.

The unrest has also worried officials at the Benjamin-Beechwood company, which is building the Arverne development. The 117-acre development stretches into low-income, primarily black neighborhoods that include the Ocean Bay Houses, a public housing complex formerly known as the Edgemere Houses, and the Hammel Houses, which abut the western edge of the development.

Though the Rockaways were once a popular beach resort, the expanse of trash-strewn lots that overlook pristine beaches has remained undeveloped for decades. It is premium oceanfront real estate accessible to Manhattan, but it is also a low-income area with few amenities and high crime rates. These are challenges the developer counts on overcoming in building two-family oceanfront homes costing up to $1 million.

A company official, Gerry Romski, said that police officials from the 100th Precinct assured him that extra police units had been brought in to help patrol the projects and that “the situation was under control.”

“These seem to be isolated incidents limited to the housing projects, the Hammels and Edgemere Houses,” Mr. Romski said. “We have not been impacted in any way. We’ve increased the security guards around our buildings, and there have been no incidents.”

The shootings, which received meager attention in the news media, have not affected the brisk sales of the units, he said. Roughly 500 of the planned 2,300 units are completed, he said, and most of those are occupied.

Eric Rasmussen, 26, a city firefighter, recently moved into the Coral House, an apartment building that is part of the Arverne development. It overlooks Building 10 of the Hammel project, the site of one of the shootings. “You definitely hear gunshots over there pretty regularly,” Mr. Rasmussen said.
“But I don’t consider it dangerous.”

Mr. Sanders calls the violence and the ensuing response by developers — initial panic, then relief that it did not affect their development — a microcosm of “exactly what is wrong here in the Rockaways.”

Mr. Sanders contends that development officials are “trying to build a self-contained city” while ignoring the surrounding community and its ills: unemployment, gangs, guns, drugs and troubled schools.

“We’re going to be stuck with a tale of two cities,” Mr. Sanders said.
“They’re creating the conditions for a perfect storm of racial discontent and possibly more violence.

“This situation cannot be dealt with by simply increasing security and police and arresting and imprisoning more young people.”

Community leaders have long complained that the Rockaways have been a dumping ground for the city’s poor. The residents of the housing projects, an overwhelming majority of them black, have few nearby job opportunities, social and youth and parolee services. They complain of being isolated on the peninsula.

Mr. Sanders said the recent violence stemmed from turf battles between gang members at the Ocean Bay Houses, the Hammel Houses and the Redfern Houses, which are farther east, in Far Rockaway.

On Nov. 27, Christopher Glenn, 16, of the Ocean Bay Houses, was shot and killed. On Dec. 15, another teenager, Cedric Smalls, 18, was fatally shot in front of Building 10 of the Hammel Houses. Four days later, Laton Spurgeon, 25, an Ocean Bay resident, was killed.

Last week, Jamel Bryant, 17, who the police say is a Bloods street gang member with a street name of Psycho, was arrested at the Ocean Bay Houses after firing eight bullets at police officers, the department said.

Mr. Smalls was one of 11 children of Cynthia Young and had moved with six of his siblings from the Hammel Houses into the apartment of his grandmother, Algia Young, 71, a block away. His grandmother said Cedric kept hanging out with his friends in the project, but he denied being in a gang.

“I used to check his backpack and go through his pockets every night to see if he was up to anything,” she said. “He was a good kid.”

She looked out her window toward the Arverne development and said, “How they going to build that thing when they can’t even take care of the community now?”

But Mr. Romski said the development had good relations with its neighbors and would benefit the rest of the Rockaways by bringing jobs, shopping and recreational facilities.

He said the development would bridge communities by serving as a link between poorer black areas of Far Rockaway and wealthier white sections such as Breezy Point, Neponsit and Belle Harbor. Arverne by the Sea is attracting many retailers, he said, and a new Y.M.C.A. center on the property will be open to outside residents.

“This project is going to pull up the rest of the community,” he said.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

[submachine]

From my perspective, your point has been made.

Let's see how good your reading comprehension is.

You despise the Rockaways.

False.

You think development is foolish.

False.

You think the area is crime ridden.

True. If it wasn't the most dangerous area in Queens (and perhaps the entire city), I (and I suspect many, many others) would already own a condo there.

The only "agenda" I have is correcting your mis-statements and false assumptions. I was born in this city (I doubt you and the Chimp were), and I've lived through the progress that has been made. I am not blinded by this progress like you seem to be, and I don't make blanket statements about the entire city (based on "overall stats") the way you seem to make.

Far Rock is a crime-ridden dump, an isolated cultural wasteland surrounded by 6-story housing projects and 6-story nursing homes in every direction. Except of course, for the waterfront. All the proof you need is to look at the price and the sell-rate of brand-new condos on "the best beach in the city". They should be sold out at over a million each. They are barely selling, for less than half that. Money knows, even if you (or your agenda) don't.