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Thread: Atlantic Yards Development - Commercial, Residential, Retail, NBA Arena

  1. #2836
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    ablarc: you seem to be arguing that the costs should now have gone down (due to Obama being in charge), yes?

    The question is materials for construction, specifically some type of super glass for the facade, which may have increased in price over the past couple of years.

    But the implication of this recent reporting is that, despite the occurences of 9/11, Ratner + Gehry went with a glass-sheathed arena located but a bomb's throw from a major vehicular artery and ignored basic facts of NYC in the 21st Century (such as were discussed between the NYPD / PANYNJ in regard to glass and location of the new WTC1 a few years back).

    What conclusion can be drawn from such decisions (particularly decisions made by a developer who bathes in public funds)?

  2. #2837

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    ablarc: you seem to be arguing that the costs should now have gone down (due to Obama being in charge), yes?
    No. I'm arguing that the experts making security requirements are idiots, and drove up the expenses unpredictably, arbitrarily and probably belatedly.

    What comes out of their orifices is the real BS.

    They should back off and let the project be built without bulletproof glass.

    After all, they're about to re-open the Statue of Liberty. Talk about vulnerable!

    And yes, they should now relax their requirements and let the cost come down.

  3. #2838
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    That ^ makes some sense. What doesn't make sense is Ratner. Plus it seems he's got no money to do much of anything here -- let alone a state of the art sports arena that is fitting for one of the largest metropolitan centers in the country.

  4. #2839

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    ^ Well, he had to pay out all kinds of money during all that time that got frittered away in court. Is it any wonder he ran out of money?

    From the start and all along, this project should have been welcomed and assisted by the community. There would now be nice buildings, an arena, a basketball team, improved transport, a dynamic sense of progress, and jobs. Instead, there's a hole in the ground.

    Getting into a high dudgeon about use of public funds may have enabled some to parade their impeccable standards of morality, but those folks have shot themselves in the foot. And they've deprived the rest of us of what we could have had.

  5. #2840
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    You can celebrate when they build it in Charlotte

  6. #2841
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    Even with the friendly wink, that was a dismissal of ablarc's comments. Something I observe all the time in this forum, and a cavalier attitude that greatly weakens its ability to bring issues into the public forum. Whatever one's opinions on Atlantic Yards, the site remains a hole and not a provider of jobs in Brooklyn in a time of economic crisis. No use crying over spilt milk, especially for those who rejoice in the present status quo. A friendly wink? or a veiled dismissal? Emoticons are a poor substitute for expressed thought. Hopefully I have misinterpreted. How many readers may have done also? An extra ten seconds of thought before hitting submit will yield vastly superior results.

  7. #2842
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I've never disguised my dislike for this project, which has been a boondoggle from day one.

    We're broke and can't afford to fill Ratners pockets (yet again).

    What some call deprivation others view as saving grace.

    But maybe some posters here can finance it?

    No wink on this one.

  8. #2843
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fioco View Post
    Emoticons are a poor substitute for expressed thought.
    Most emoticons can be useless but the one that really describes in a picture what cannot be effectively and efficiently describe in words is....



    My emoticon of choice when I come across some of the inane stuff. When something is just so dumb you dont want to spend mind energy counjuring up the right words but cant help to not mention anything break out the ol' rolling eyes...

  9. #2844
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    Default 2/7/2009

    Looks like we might get a development more like Bedrock from the Flintstones instead of a Gehry shock development.

    Boulders have been deposited along Flatbush Avenue...




  10. #2845
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Arrow The Pig Wants Pork For His Project

    ATL. YARDS BIG WANTS PORK PIE

    Last updated: 3:47 am
    February 9, 2009

    The future of Atlantic Yards --Brooklyn's biggest development project -- could hinge on President Obama's $827 billion stimulus plan.

    City and state officials say they expect developer Bruce Ratner to lobby hard for a piece of the federal pork to help bail out his reeling $4 billion plan to bring an NBA arena and 16 residential and office towers to Prospect Heights, which is in jeopardy because of the economic downtown.

    Borough President Marty Markowitz, the project's biggest cheerleader, said yesterday that funds from the stimulus bill should go to offset arena construction, and especially aid Ratner in a revamp of Long Island Rail Road's Vanderbilt rail yard.

    "This project is shovel-ready, and the jobs it would create are needed now," said Markowitz, adding Atlantic Yards would also boost businesses nearby

    The Post reported last month that Ratner is having such serious cash-flow problems that he's in talks with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority about cutting costs on a $445 million transit improvement plan he promised in 2005 in order to get the green light from the state for Atlantic Yards.

    Ratner, who declined comment, has projected Atlantic Yards would deliver thousands of permanent jobs and 15,000 construction jobs.

    Daniel Goldstein, spokesman for the anti-Atlantic Yards group Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn, said "stimulus funds shouldn't be used to bail out a private developer, especially for the Atlantic Yards money pit.

    "It would be obscene to use such funds for an arena and to foster the misuse of eminent domain,"
    he added.

    State officials say the project would qualify for New York's share of stimulus funds, but no distribution decisions have been made.

    Although stadium projects don't qualify to receive money through the stimulus bill, arenas are not mentioned in the document.

    Local politicians say they expect Atlantic Yard's transit improvements to become a likely target for funds, but Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries (D-Brooklyn) said Ratner shouldn't get aid unless he guarantees "there will be substantial affordable housing" built early on.

    Ratner wasn't the highest bidder when agreeing to purchase the rail yard in 2005 for $100 million. He hasn't closed on the deal and is now looking to pay the MTA in installments.

    There is no timeline to compete Atlantic Yards. At best, construction of the arena and, perhaps, one of the skyscrapers could begin this year and possibly be completed by late 2011 if a lawsuit challenging the project's use of eminent domain is dismissed within a few months, the developer says.

    Most of the rest of Atlantic Yards is expected to be on hold for many years -- or until a Ratner comes up with enough money to build.

    Ratner last month confirmed he's also trying to scale back costs on the Frank Gehry-designed, $950 million arena, to potentially save hundreds of millions of dollars.

    rich.calder@nypost.com

  11. #2846

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCMAN320 View Post
    ATL. YARDS BIG WANTS PORK PIE

    City and state officials say they expect developer Bruce Ratner to lobby hard for a piece of the federal pork to help bail out his reeling $4 billion plan to bring an NBA arena and 16 residential and office towers to Prospect Heights, which is in jeopardy because of the economic downtown.
    Hey, that's some objective article! Comes right out with a measured exposition of all sides of the issue, and never lets up on the even-handedness.

    A journalistic paragon.

  12. #2847
    Kings County Loyal BrooklynLove's Avatar
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    The govt needs to stimulate growth opportunities and this project is among the strongest currently on the table. Sorry NJMan - you can't argue with fundamentals.

  13. #2848

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    ATL. YARDS BIG WANTS PORK PIE

    Last updated: 3:47 am
    February 9, 2009

    The future of Atlantic Yards --Brooklyn's biggest development project -- could hinge on President Obama's $827 billion stimulus plan.
    Throwing good money after bad.

    This thing so needs to die.

  14. #2849
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    Although stadium projects don't qualify to receive money through the stimulus bill, arenas are not mentioned in the document.
    Are they serious?... The Obama Administration does not want the funds to go to Private Developers for NBA Arenas, this kind of garbage just gives more fodder to Republicans and pundants like Rush to wave in front of the American people and say "look what they're spending your tax dollars on".

    While some posters here might think it's legit, tens of Millions of Americans across the Country would vehemently disagree.

    The money would be better spent on more transportation projects; improving roads, revamping Subway stations, getting the Second phase of the SAS going, renovating or building new schools etc..

  15. #2850
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Isn't the first thing that needs to be done (besides prepping the site) is to build the platform over the tracks?

    First things first, one step at a time.

    If anything, pay as it moves forward. Evaluate the project at each stage before more funds are OK'd.

    This Ratner money-sucker will eat up every bit of Fed Aid he can get his hands on with no guarantees that NYC will end up with a great Transport Hub rather than some money sucking arena, where lots of folks won't be able to afford to attend sporting events held there.

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