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Thread: Atlantic Yards Development - Commercial, Residential, Retail, NBA Arena

  1. #3496

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    I doubt the public will ever know, but I wonder how much of a discount Wang got in his contract because of the seating configuration.

    The NHL has no minimum seating requirement for arenas.

    I read somewhere that the arena was downsized from 850,000 to 675,000 sq ft.

    Emotionally, I don't think Wang wanted to move; but strictly from an economic viewpoint, the advantage over KC is the much bigger TV market.
    Last edited by ZippyTheChimp; October 24th, 2012 at 07:23 PM.

  2. #3497
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    Wang is also selling equity to Ratner in the deal

  3. #3498
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    He also is keeping his cable deal in tact. They'd better have some good plans in place to work out the capacity and horseshoe configuration, otherwise it won't be a good hockey building. The same issues cause the team in Phoneix to build a new arena only 7 years after moving to the city.



    We already know they wont sell tickets in a portion of the upper deck, but I'm confident the powers that be will have some tricks up their sleeves to fix the seating issue by configuring some new retractable seating... otherwise they wouldn't have approved this thing without demaning some alterations. The one thing Nassau always had over almost all NHL arenas is great sightlines, so obstructed view seats would be an awful downgrade.

  4. #3499
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    I'm unclear what the exact date of the lease expiration is at the Nassau Colliseum. I've read articles that say play will begin at Barclay's for the 2014-2015 season, and some that say for fall of 2015 (2015-16).

  5. #3500

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    The Islanders are under lease for three more seasons at the Nassau Coliseum.

    2012-13
    2013-14
    2014-15

    The lease expires June 2015.

  6. #3501
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    While he's said they intend to honor the lease, Wang left open the possibility of an early exit.

  7. #3502
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishInNYC View Post
    Islanders Are Going to Brooklyn, a Coup for New Arena

    More reversal of the exodus seen in the 50-90s. Now folks going from Suburbia to the Urbana. With respect to the Dodgers, we are now going to find which of the two slime were slimier, Moses, or O'Malley. They were both dead worng, and Brooklyn suffered severely at the hands of an overzealous citi planner and a disgustingly greedy lawyer.
    Last edited by TREPYE; October 25th, 2012 at 02:12 PM.

  8. #3503

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    I think what may have accelerated the deal is the NHL lockout.

    The Oct 2 preseason game between the Islanders and Devils would have been a good beta test for the arena. That was cancelled, and the latest word on negotiations is that the two sides are far apart.

  9. #3504
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    What Wang had said was that this agreement has been in the works for 7 months. Since the Islanders were not going to play at Nassau one day past the current lease, and new arena design and construction would have taken 30-36 months, the time had expired for a new arena to be possible. The other options were Brooklyn or a completely new market such as Quebec City, Seattle, or Kansas City.

  10. #3505
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    Off view: Little-known vista at risk, preservationist claims

    By Natalie Musumeci


    Courtesy of Richard Kessler

    A picturesque view of the Empire State Building framed by Grand Army Plaza’s iconic arch is in danger of being blocked forever.

    The 102-story skyscraper perfectly bisects the Solders’ and Sailors’ Arch when viewed from a not-so-well-known vantage point just inside Prospect Park — but long-time Park Sloper Richard Kessler fears a proposed tower in the Atlantic Yards mega-development will obstruct his favorite vista before the borough can truly appreciate its grandeur.

    “It’s a very beautiful sight that shouldn’t be lost,” said Kessler, 66, who started an online petition last month urging locals to “save the view.”

    The development company Forest City Ratner plans to erect a 219-foot tall residential high-rise only half a mile from Grand Army Plaza on Atlantic Avenue near Sixth Avenue. When that building is finished, Kessler worries that tree branches and a light pole won’t be the only things in the foreground when he and other onlookers lean against a lamppost at the start of Prospect Park’s East Drive — the only spot where the vista reveals itself.

    “It would perfectly block the Empire State Building,” said Kessler, who has taken to calling the vantage point “Brooklyn Mirador.” “If I put my back against that lamppost and I see an apartment building instead of the Empire State Building, I got no interest.”

    The Solders’ and Sailors’ Arch was completed in 1892 — 40 years before the Empire State building climbed into the clouds — but this preservationist believes the fortuitous placement is no coincidence.

    Though he has no documentation to back up his case, Kessler claims the arch — and an 1869 statue of Abraham Lincoln that once stood in front of it — points right at the former Astor mansion five miles away on Fifth Avenue in an attempt by architects to challenge the wealthy family because they opposed the Great Emancipator’s efforts to end slavery.

    The Astor family’s home is now the site of the Empire State Building, and a number of later monuments — including the Grand Army Plaza’s 1932 Bailey Fountain and the park’s 1965 John F. Kennedy memorial — also line up with the viewing corridor, only bolstering its significance, according to Kessler.

    “These things are in a straight line and nature doesn’t make straight lines like this. This is something that was done on purpose,” said Kessler, who suspects that Grand Army Plaza designers Frederick Olmsted and Calvert Vaux knew about the axis when the arch rose in the late 1800s.

    As of press time, Kessler has gathered 51 signatures pushing for the preservation of the “Brooklyn Mirador” on Change.org. He is seeking an additional 99,949 backers.

    Once he rounds up enough supporters, Kessler hopes to deliver the petition to the Brooklyn Museum, the Smithsonian Institute, and the city’s Landmark’s Preservation Commission — which already ruled against his previous request to preserve the vista.

    “We determined that the corridor is ineligible because it does not meet the definition of a New York City landmark,” said Landmarks spokeswoman Elisabeth De Bourbon.
    Forest City Ratner spokesman Joe DePlasco would not comment on the viewing corridor, but said the entire Atlantic Yards plan already received an environmental review when “scale and size” were up for discussion.

    But the history-obsessed fanatic will not give up.

    “I know for sure this is a significant thing,” said Kessler. “It would be terrible to lose it.”

    http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories..._11_30_bk.html

  11. #3506
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    At Atlantic Yards, Ready to Test Plans for Prefab Tower

    By CHARLES V. BAGLI


    Ángel Franco/The New York Times
    Workers at a warehouse in the Brooklyn Navy Yard built the frame of a modular apartment.
    The developer Forest City Ratner hopes the construction method will help save time and money.


    SHoP Architects PC

    In a warehouse deep inside the Brooklyn Navy Yard, a small team of carpenters, electricians and engineers have secretly labored for months on an assembly system for turning tubular steel chassis into fully equipped apartments that can be stacked and bolted together at a construction site.

    On Dec. 18, they will be put to the test, as Bruce C. Ratner, chief executive of Forest City Ratner, breaks ground for the world’s tallest prefabricated, or modular, building, a 32-story residential tower at Flatbush Avenue and Dean Street. It is the first of 15 planned modular buildings at the $4.9 billion Atlantic Yards site; some are to rise to 50 stories.

    If it works, Mr. Ratner and his partners say, they will be at the forefront of a new industry.

    It is an ambitious and risky undertaking, more so than the $1 billion Barclays Center arena that Mr. Ratner opened there three months ago.

    For half a century, builders have sought to capture the promise of modular construction for high-rise housing: substantially lower construction costs, a quicker schedule, better quality and less waste.

    Developers have built prefabricated single-family homes, jails and classrooms. But taller towers that could withstand wind shear and seismic forces were another matter altogether.

    If Mr. Ratner has, as he claims, “cracked the code,” it could lead to more affordable housing, or it could simply mean greater profits for the developer.

    “The engineering has been the challenge,” said Tom Hardiman, executive director of the Modular Building Institute, a trade association for the modular-construction industry. “No developer has put the time, and frankly, the money into engineering that Ratner has.”

    Currently, the tallest modular building is a 25-story dormitory in Britain. In the United States, modular buildings rarely go above 10 stories. The cost of steel bracing has been prohibitive.

    But next spring, 125 workers at the factory in Building 293 at the Navy Yard will begin churning out 930 modules — typically 14 feet wide, 35 feet long and 10 feet tall — equipped with floors, walls, electric lines, plumbing, kitchens, toilets, exterior facades and even towel racks.

    “This is more than innovation,” said MaryAnne Gilmartin, executive vice president of Forest City Ratner. “We’ve cracked a code that will allow us to utilize cutting-edge technology to introduce greater affordability, more sustainability and world-class architecture.”

    She said modular was suitable for both subsidized and luxury housing. Forest City says it hopes that other urban builders will use the technology. The company also sees a market for building prefabricated bathroom “pods,” which slide into the modules, and can also be used by conventionally built hospitals and other institutions.

    A variety of modules, which come in different shapes, together with various glass and colored exterior panels, will break up the mass of the building so that it does not look like a Lego tower.

    One by one, the modules will be put on flatbed trucks and carried one mile to the construction site, where a crane operator will lift the components into place, while steel braces are simultaneously erected to provide lateral support.

    “Modular promises higher quality, greener construction, faster delivery time and lower costs,” said Thomas Hanrahan, dean of Pratt Institute’s architecture school in Brooklyn. “The question is: Will the savings be passed on to the public in some form?”

    Mr. Ratner began exploring modular construction during the recession in 2010 as a way to make good on his promise to use union labor, deliver good architecture and earmark at least 30 percent of the proposed 6,430 units for low- and moderate-income tenants. (Half of the 363 apartments in the first building will be for poor and working-class families.)

    He replaced the architect Frank Gehry with SHoP Architects and worked with engineers from ARUP to devise a modular high-rise building. Forest City also worked with a modular builder in New Jersey, Kullman Offsite Construction, although they had a bitter breakup over terms and Mr. Ratner’s decision to hire a group of Kullman’s senior executives.

    The solution to producing high-rise modular buildings came, in part, from the ability to create computerized three-dimensional models that allowed them to test the integrity of the engineering, Christopher Sharples of SHoP Architects said.

    Sixty percent of the work will be done in the factory, which Forest City believes will save as much as 20 percent on construction costs and cut the delivery time to 18 months, from 28 months.
    Ms. Gilmartin of Forest City warned that the first tower may be only marginally less expensive than a conventional tower, but that there should be increasing efficiency with each building at the site.

    The developer obtained a financing commitment from Bank of New York and forged a partnership with Skanska, the giant construction company based in Sweden, and with union labor, the project’s biggest supporter during years of opposition from some community groups.

    Forest City and Skanska formed a company to operate the Navy Yard factory, with Skanska as the operating partner as well as the construction manager. The companies declined to reveal the start-up costs.

    Last week, Mr. Ratner reached an agreement in principle with the city’s construction unions. The unions had expected Atlantic Yards to be a conventional project, through which a carpenter could earn $85 an hour in wages and benefits.

    Gary La Barbera, president of the Building and Construction Trades Council, acknowledged that the unions had lost ground to nonunion residential contractors in recent years and were largely absent from the affordable housing field.

    Under the new agreement, Mr. La Barbera said union factory workers would earn $55,000 a year, 25 percent less than the average union construction worker. But, he said, the trade-off is that the factory worker will work steady hours throughout the year, regardless of the weather.

    “We see this as an opportunity to get into markets we’re not in,” Mr. La Barbera said. We can’t ignore an emerging industry. We see it as creating more job opportunities in residential construction.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/28/n...=nyregion&_r=0

  12. #3507

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    How long before the prefab work is being done by non-uniion labor in Pennsyvania, or China?

  13. #3508

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    How long before the prefab work is being done by non-uniion labor in Pennsyvania, or China?
    Regarding Pennsylvania, I guess that will depend on how well this prefab tower here in NYC turns out: for China, 'union' labor and labor costs in general is not driving the issue for new or more 'cost effective' construction methods.

    This is a revolutionary approach for a high rise (IN NYC) and it will be an interesting story to follow going forward: personally I like the idea, if only for the novelty of the project delivery method. This building is going to be like 'most' buildings, a background building, a perfect foil for the more 'architecturally interestings' buildings such as the Barclay Areana.
    Last edited by infoshare; November 28th, 2012 at 02:09 PM.

  14. #3509
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    The major value to being able to do this is speed with which a new building can be constructed and begin collecting rents. I could build the entire building before I have permits that are approved, since I can do it off site. It cuts months to years off of the construction time associated with CIP and interior finishing. None of which can currently be done until after approvals are given, etc etc. This improvement compounds because the shorter build time shortens the window for delays as well, since there will be less time for neighbors to file complaints (spurious or otherwise), less time for accidents, less everything. Construction loans are also much more expensive than standard financing, and this will lessen holding costs as well. Note that it will still be difficult to construct these particularly far away due to shipping costs. This problem is compounded for a place like NYC where anything built that's this large off the islands generally requires some multimodal shipping as well.
    Last edited by RoldanTTLB; November 29th, 2012 at 12:34 PM.

  15. #3510
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    Yeah I love it, everything you said is true. On top of that, it'll be a great union buster when the pods are built in non-union shops for a more reasonable cost, yet still paying workers a very fair livable wage. Quality modular is the way to go for NYC construction in the future to bring down these ridiculous costs

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