View Poll Results: Do you like or dislike the memorial that is now set for Bayonne?

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Thread: Jersey City 9/11 Memorial

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
    Shouldn't they be looking at american archetects instead? Russians don't know how important these memorials are to us. They pobably don't even care about what happend to us on that day giving the bad history between these two nations. Only Americans can feel the pain of these attacks to our nation wich is why we should look at american archetects for 9/11 memorials.
    People like you create the stereotype that all Americans are ignorant bigots.

    Don't go bashing an entire nation just because the design was drafted up by a nutjob.

  2. #32

    Default not typical russian sculpture

    I realize I may be the only art historian writing, here, but to say that this artist is working in the conventions of Soviet totalitarian art could not be more inaccurate.

    I reserve judgement on whether or not this particular sculpture is a good contibution to memorial sculpture. However, official Soviet art during and after Stalin, though often gargatuan in scale, functioned as propaganda by engaging in a sort of state hero worship. It was, fundamentally and almost exclusively, figurative. That this artist continues to work at dramatic scale does not mean that he is merely bringing that tradition (mostly dead now in Russia) to capitalist powers. This sculpture (need it be said?) is not figurative, but instead seeks to represent traumatic emotions which the rupture in twin towers brought to, well, most everyone familiar with the skyline. That the viewer will be able to see his own reflection in the tear drop is an obvious statement of the way in which people in the NYC metro area identified with the buildings. At the very least, this artist, understands the great significance of those buildings in the way in which people in the metro area thought of themselves, their sense of place, their regional identity.

    That the artist is Russian has absolutely no bearing whatsoever - particularly in the present globalized art world, considering the significance of NYC as a world city and as a city of immigrants. I, for one, eagerly await seeing what the new Russia (even with all its present-day problems and dubious policies), has to offer the world.

    As I say, I remain unconvinced that the sculpture has all the hallmarks of a what could become a historically significant artwork - but, that has never stopped NYC (and certainly not Hudson County) in the past from putting up a whole array of hideously dull public art (for instance, the monument at Exchange Place) - and this, by all means, exceeds those works.

    So, from a redevelopment perspective alone (as impetus to new waterfront building, and hopefully impetus to more and even better public art), the project must go forward.

  3. #33
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Default Here we go.

    The Katyn Memorial at Ex. Place is also a grave with some of the ashes of the dead intombed.

    MEMORIALS PROGRESS
    Race against the clock in Bayonne

    Tuesday, May 30, 2006
    By RONALD LEIR
    JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

    The Russian foundry that two centuries ago cast the bronze statues for Peter the Great's summer gardens has fashioned the 160-ton 9/11 "teardrop" memorial slated for Bayonne's Peninsula at Bayonne Harbor.

    Russian artisans and American contractors are cooperating in an all-out effort to ready the 100-foot-tall monument for its dedication at the Peninsula's Harbor View Park on the five-year anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    Thirteen craftsmen and three engineers have arrived from Russia to help facilitate the installation of the monument, "To the Struggle Against World Terrorism," designed by sculptor Zurab Tsereteli and donated to the United States.

    Vasily Tsereteli, the artist's grandson and executive director of the Moscow Museum of Modern Art, is also here to make sure that the Russians are on the same page as the seven American contractors managed by Mast Construction Services, of Little Falls.

    He, in turn, is relying on two American lawyers, Emily Madoff and Susan Thomases, to tie up loose ends as they pop up. Madoff, whose law firm had previously worked with the artist, and Thomases, a prominent Democratic fund-raiser, brought the project to Bayonne through Mayor Joseph V. Doria Jr. after Jersey City opted not to accept the monument.

    The job is proceeding on several fronts.

    - Six sections of the monument are being assembled at the Peninsula.

    That job, Tsereteli said, involves welding seams, preparing more than 1,000 iron and stainless steel bolts, rust-proofing and carefully connecting the metal structure to the bronze.

    - Workers at a Canadian quarry will be engraving the names of all those who perished in the initial explosion at the World Trade Center in 1993 and in the 2001 attacks on the monument's eleven-sided granite base. The names will be arranged alphabetically around the base, said Mast's Lee Karlin, project executive.

    - Infrastructure improvements are being made to the pier at the Peninsula's northeast corner to accommodate the enormous structure. Engineer Fred Worstell, construction coordinator, said that four 500-ton caissons have been sunk 100 feet into bedrock to form the pier's exterior walls.

    - Workers are preparing the property around the monument site for a landscaped Harbor View Park plaza, with lighting, featuring public waterfront walkways and views of New York Harbor and the skyline.

    A $500,000 Hudson County Open Space Trust Fund grant and a $300,000 donation by Royal Caribbean International, the Bayonne-based cruise line, will help finance the park.

  4. #34

    Default

    Memorial monuments don't have to be beautiful, they have to be unique and memorable. Commemorating those that died under the rubble of the World Trade Center using a teardrop is not a horribly innapropriate idea. We as Americans always look at everything as having to be a park or celebrating the lives of the people. Well in Russia, they look at the gritty realistic view of the horror of life and I think this statue is not as bad as some memorials I have seen proposed by Americans which are utterly souless and full of artificial grief.

  5. #35
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Exclamation It's hear and up...

    REMEMBERING SEPT. 11

    TEAR-DROPPING IN
    Clinton tops A-list for Bayonne 9/11 tribute

    Friday, September 08, 2006
    By RONALD LEIR
    JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

    Former President Bill Clinton and his wife, U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., will be among the dignitaries when Bayonne dedicates its 100-foot-tall "teardrop" memorial on Monday.

    Clinton will speak at the event, according to a spokeswoman for Rubenstein Associates, a New York public relations firm hired by Zurab Tsereteli, the Russian sculptor who designed the memorial.

    The 100-foot-tall, 175-ton bronze monument, "To the Struggle Against World Terrorism," is a gift to the United States from Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Russian people and Tsereteli. The monument also bears the names of the victims of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the 2001 terrorist attacks on America.

    The monument, along with the new Harbor View Park, will be dedicated Monday at 2:30 p.m.

    Also scheduled to appear are Sergei Mironov, chairman of the Russian Federal Council, U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, who is a former U.S. attorney for New Jersey, U.S. Sens. Robert Menendez and Frank Lautenberg, Gov. Jon Corzine, and Bayonne Mayor and state Sen. Joseph V. Doria Jr.

    Grammy-winning country music artist LeAnn Rimes will sing the national anthem and an a cappella version of "Amazing Grace." Russian-born soprano Dina Kuznetsova will also perform.

    Members of the public may arrive by car or they may take the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System to the 34th Street station where they may board shuttle buses, leaving at 12:45, 1:25 and 1:55 p.m., to the Peninsula.

    The September 11th . Bayonne Remembers Committee is sponsoring an Interfaith Memorial Service and Candlelight Vigil at 7 p.m. in Harbor View Park at the Peninsula. Shuttle buses will leave at 6 p.m. from Catholic War Veterans Post 1612, 18 W. 23rd St., to the Peninsula.

  6. #36
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Question Are you serious?...

    Bayonne's 9/11 memorial has too many names

    Bayonne’s 100-foot sculpture, being unveiled Monday on the fifth anniversary of 9/11, honors thousands of terrorist attack victims, and then some: Carved into the granite base are the names of more than 40 people who weren’t killed on Sept. 11.

    The majestic sculpture across the Hudson River from Ground Zero will feature names of 3,024 people once believed to have died in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and on United Flight 93 in Pennsylvania.

    The problem is that the Russian artist who created the work used an outdated list of names of those missing at the World Trade Center.

    “We did the best that could have been done under the circumstances,” said Emily Madoff, an attorney for artist Zurab Tsereteli.

    Madoff said that she consulted several sources to try to determine the correct names before seeking confirmation from Kenneth Feinberg, the former special master of a federal Sept. 11 victim compensation fund, who referred her to a book published by The New York Times in 2003.

    She said she never knew to contact the city, which has kept the official death toll for New York since the attacks.

    She said she drew her list from the book, which identifies victims as of spring 2003. It includes 43 names that were removed by the medical examiner’s office in October 2003 and January 2004 because the city couldn’t confirm their deaths or, in some cases, their existence, according to Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner.

    The names removed included illegal immigrants whose jobs were not well documented and missing people whose relatives say they were near the trade center on Sept. 11. Some claims were made up in attempts to rip off the government.

    One name, Paul Herman Vanvelzer, was apparently a fabrication by a California woman who claimed she was a Sept. 11 victim’s mother.

    Some victims’ family members said the erroneous names need to be removed.

    “It kind of cheapens the whole thing,” said Jack Lynch, whose firefighter son Michael Lynch was killed on Sept. 11.

    The memorial, called “To the Struggle Against World Terrorism,” is not the only Sept. 11 tribute to run into such problems. In Jersey City, a memorial dedicated in 2002 to 40 victims was redone for $7,500.

    The sculpture evokes the Twin Towers that once stood across the Hudson River. In the middle, a 40-foot steel teardrop hangs like a bell in the open center.

    Its groundbreaking last September drew Russian President Vladimir Putin, and its dedication Monday is expected to bring former President Bill Clinton, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and Gov. Jon S. Corzine.

    The official Sept. 11 death toll stands at 2,973: 2,749 at the trade center, 184 at the Pentagon and 40 in Pennsylvania.

    Associated Press

    Also please can the administrator please change the title from JC Memorial to "To The Stuggle Against World Terrorisim Memorial".
    Last edited by JCMAN320; September 12th, 2006 at 12:54 AM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinhk View Post
    It looks like a vagina with a drop of sperm.
    There is a word ("pizdets") in Russian. It means a terrible end of something/somebody, or, critical situation with no exit.

    Pizdets - is a derivation from "pizda" (coarse word) that means "vagina".

    So, this monument means, that The Pizdets is coming !

  8. #38

    Wink

    This monument looks like vagina with drop of something. The allusion is:

    There is a word ("pizdets") in Russian. It means a terrible end of something/somebody, or, critical situation with no exit.

    Pizdets - is a derivation from "pizda" (coarse word) that means "vagina".

    So, this monument means, that The Pizdets is coming !

  9. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKOS2006 View Post
    This monument looks like vagina with drop of something. The allusion is:

    There is a word ("pizdets") in Russian. It means a terrible end of something/somebody, or, critical situation with no exit.

    Pizdets - is a derivation from "pizda" (coarse word) that means "vagina".

    So, this monument means, that The Pizdets is coming !

    Welcome to the Wilderness of Mother Russia!
    We used to "clap with our hands" thru ages.
    We used to watch these "masterpieces" since we're a babies!..

    We are!
    We are THE RUSSIAN BEARS.

    MEDVED'S

    MEDVED WILL SAVE THOU!

  10. #40

    Default

    Zurab Tsereteli is a megalomaniacal quack.

    He defaced Moscow with his "sculptures", and now Bayonne.

    I hope I won't be seeing this "sculpture" too much, although I do hope that now that it is on the tip of the Military Ocean Terminal I can check it out (MOT, not the sculpture).

    Will they let me in?

    Or is it still only open to cruise passengers?

  11. #41
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Red face Not that bad really....

    Injc I'm not sure.

    I was there yesterday at the ceremony. I'll be honest and I hate to admit it, but in person it doesn't look that bad at all. Many people who hated it, like me, that were there said that the pictures and renderings don't do it justice. The steel part is made of Bronze so it won't turn green like the Statue of Liberty, the hanging tear is nickle plated and reflective glass, and the base is granite with 11 sides with all the names of the people that died from all the attacks that took place on 9/11 and including the names of the people that died in the 93' WTC Bombing. Also there are 9 walkways leading to the monument and there are pavers along the side with messages in them from people around the area. I have a commerative book of the monument which is like 203 pages and depicts the whole process of creating it and finding a spot with letters from people and pictures of the construction. I met Bill Clinton and he signed my book, I also got Zurab Tsereteli to sign it as well. Leann Rimes sang the National Anthem and Chertoff was there as well and he spoke and so did Bill Clinton and Gov. Corzine. At the end they all laid flowers at the base and the public was then allowed and I laid 3 for the friends I had killed and I found their names and touched the rose to the names and laid it beneath it.

    The thing absolutely massive. You can see it from Brooklyn, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Verazanno Bridge, Liberty Island, Liberty State Park, The Battery, Downtown JC, and the Staten Island Ferry.

    The MOT is the perfect place for it it is out in the harbor for everyone to see. If it was on the Waterfront in Downtown JC, it would get lost among the buildings and the only people who could see it were people who were Downtown or on Manhattan's Westside and people coming up the river, that's it. Also the fact that it would have been anchored in the water I didn't like. This is out there for the whole harbor to enjoy and will be seen by all.

    Also it's good Bayonne has this; we in Jersey City have the Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, and the Jersey Central Railroad Terminal as the "Historic Trilogy" that represents the freedom and hope of all immigrants that came to this new world and their stuggle and yearning to be free. This monument/memorial To the "World's Struggle Against Terrorism" will greet people as they come to the harbor and become a symbol of when America lost it's "innocence" and our continuing fight to be free and not live in fear and that one day that "tear of grief" will become a tear of hope, joy, and happiness, if and when we beat the terrorists.

    I will post pics I took there this evening. Here is an atricle from the Jersey about the ceremony and the front page has the picture of the monument for the entire cover.

    FINISH THE JOB CLINTON SAYS

    Tuesday, September 12, 2006
    By RONALD LEIR
    JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

    Speaking at the dedication of Bayonne's 100-foot-tall memorial to the victims of terrorism, former President Bill Clinton yesterday called on the government to "finish the job 9/11 left us with" by implementing all the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission and by sending more troops to bolster Afghanistan's fledgling democracy.

    Clinton was on hand, along with U.S. Sens. Frank Lautenberg and Robert Menendez, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, and Bayonne Mayor and state Sen. Joseph V. Doria Jr. for the unveiling of the 175-ton monument, "To the Struggle Against World Terrorism."

    The memorial, a gift from artist Zurab Tsereteli and the people of Russia to Bayonne, was dedicated to those killed in terrorist attacks - specifically those killed on 9/11 as well as the victims of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

    The monument's granite base is engraved with the names of thousands of people killed in the attacks - and, in an error, the names of 43 people who weren't.

    Clinton urged the Bush administration to "allocate the funds of homeland security based on real risk, not political pork," to put real effort into inspecting container cargo and to find a defense against liquid bombs on airplanes.

    "I can't believe we can't afford it," Clinton said, drawing applause from the special guests and from a crowd of a few hundred members of the public cordoned off from direct viewing of the proceedings. They generally stood - or sat on the few chairs available - on either side of the stage.

    Security was the word of the day as people who drove to the afternoon event had to pass through a phalanx of police personnel from various agencies, including several with automatic weapons, and bomb-sniffing dogs from the Union County Sheriff's Office before advancing to a parking area. From there, shuttle buses took them about a mile to the ceremony site.

    Still, folks were glad to share in the activities and everybody seemed impressed with the enormous bronze monument.

    "It's absolutely stunning - it takes your breath away," Bayonne's Maria Barone said.

    Barone said she came "to remember those lost and to celebrate their lives and how the country comes together and to thank God for the beauty of freedom which (the terrorists) tried to take away."

    Bayonne's Abbey Aznar, a retired teacher, called the monument "absolutely beautiful."

    Rose Tynes, of Staten Island, said she came to see Bill Clinton, but found the memorial "very lovely."

    Joan Haslach, who said she knew two WTC victims, was at her job a block and a half from the site when the planes hit "so it's a day I'll never forget." After the crashes, Haslach said, she ran to another building in the South Street Seaport and escaped harm, "but I saw it all. I waited until (the dust clouds) settled and then I headed uptown."

    New Jersey Commerce Secretary Virginia Bauer and Julia Collins, author of "Love You, Mean It," both of whom lost husbands on 9/11, spoke on behalf of victims' families.

    "America's faith is unshakable," Collins said.

    The hourlong program concluded with a rousing rendition of "America the Beautiful" by the Jubilation Choir of Newark.
    Last edited by JCMAN320; September 12th, 2006 at 04:17 PM.

  12. #42
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Exclamation Here it is..

    To the World's Struggle Against Terrorism


  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCMAN320 View Post
    To the World's Struggle Against Terrorism

    One of the meaning of this monument means "Hey, guys, come in and **** us again"

  14. #44
    King Omega XVI OmegaNYC's Avatar
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    Default

    That is interesting, to say the least.

  15. #45
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Default

    I think the gash just does not look right.

    i do not think of the TT when I see this, or anything about what happened, and that drip thing look smore like silver spittle than a tear......

    My opinion though.

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