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Thread: WTC Memorial - by Michael Arad (Architect) and Peter Walker (Landscape)

  1. #151
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonik
    WOW, this Stanke sure is insensitive!

    I can't wait for the breathless indignation.
    Finally someone saying what needs to be said.

    Grief is a very powerful emotion.

    But all involved should attempt to step back -- and consider what those who died on that terrible day would want for those who were left behind and those who will come in the future. Rather than simply considering what those who are experiencing the grief want for themselves.

  2. #152
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    Funny he describes this as being done by the right wing, since this is the typical mantra of the left, especially in NYC:

    "Four years after the fact, we are still staring at a giant hole in the middle of the financial capital of the world because a handful of political activists, self-proclaimed spokespersons for the thousands of families who lost loved ones on Sept. 11, have hijacked the rebuilding process with demands to transform this vital commercial sector into a giant cemetery. This combative, selfish, power-addicted group holds great sway with the governor and other politicians. They have excelled at proclaiming their extended victimization through the media. They consider the entire 16-acre W.T.C. site, which is owned by the public, as their own personal property. They have opposed any use of the site that is not specifically designed to their preferences. They fail to acknowledge that redevelopment after a terrorist attack can honor the dead and their survivors."

    Me thinky he just wants to have the International crayola center be on the site to push political buttons, bad-mouthing american politics and Bush at any chance possible. Just a hunch, though.

    Anyway, he is right in that we need to build and the memorial is large, some would say too large, as it is. The city needs to stop showing how impotent it is in virtually all decision-making and get the ball rolling. The world is watching, and perhaps laughing, as we speak.

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by billyblancoNYC
    Me thinky he just wants to have the International crayola center be on the site to push political buttons, bad-mouthing american politics and Bush at any chance possible. Just a hunch, though.
    I don't think so. Stanke makes no attempt to defend the Drawing Center specifically, just cultural uses generally, and holds open the possibility that maybe these aren't even the best particular cultural uses:

    "Are the International Freedom Center and the Drawing Center the right institutions for the first building of the cultural center? That topic is worthy of its own consideration."

  4. #154

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    In an article in one of these threads, it was stated that most people don't realize how big 6 acres is.

    The WTC memorial site boundary with insets of three national memorials, to scale.

    1.Vietnam War Memorial
    58,226 dead
    2273 MIA

    2. Korean War Memorial
    33,741 dead
    4817 MIA

    3. World War II Memorial
    405,976 dead
    78,976 MIA
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    Last edited by ZippyTheChimp; August 5th, 2005 at 04:52 PM. Reason: oops!

  5. #155

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    ^ The northern boundry should be Fulton not Vesey, but still....

  6. #156

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    What I am afraid of, is a group of SOME family members demanding a "Pax Memorialcana" that dominates the area physically and depresses ANYTHING not even remotely revolving around the memorial. BTW, Ms. Burlingame can take her Iraq War Veterans proposal off the site and down to Washington D.C where all major war memorials are. 9/11 and Iraq are NOT related! Of course, she is a family member who campaigned for Bush last year, and why she would support the man who is covering up the truth about 9/11 (refusing to testify under oath, censoring information from the 9/11 Commission, flip flopping over CREATING the group in the first place!) is beyond me.

  7. #157

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    I don't think it's fair to compare those memorials. Sure the official area may be smaller but the surroundings of the other memorials are much calmer than those of the 9/11 memorial. How can you reflect if you have a street 30 feet away?

  8. #158

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    You said 30 feet, but it is unreasonable to expect a 6 acre tract of land in a dense urban environment not to closely abut streets.

    That's why the cultural building is where it is in the site plan.

    Although on the mall, all three of the national memorials have streets nearby.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I don't think it's fair to compare those memorials. Sure the official area may be smaller but the surroundings of the other memorials are much calmer than those of the 9/11 memorial. How can you reflect if you have a street 30 feet away?
    That's an argument for why the 9/11 memorial should be SMALLER, not LARGER. For God's sake, this will be in the middle of the City. You don't want to hear traffic noise? Then put the memorial in Putnam County.

  10. #160
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Regarding the issue of noise from nearby streets at the WTC Memorial :

    http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...6&postcount=97

    New York Times
    August 4, 2005

    An Island of Sanctuary in the Traffic Stream

    By DAVID W. DUNLAP

    At last, the circle has a center...

    The new Columbus Circle gives New Yorkers the chance to understand a critical element of the future World Trade Center memorial: how the sound of water can muffle distracting urban noise.

    Almost inaudible outside the four-foot-high landscaped mound surrounding the circle, the fountain dominates the experience within.

    At the trade center memorial, cascading water walls will surround each of the voids that are to mark the absence of the twin towers. The Columbus Circle fountain begins to suggest how important sound will be. "I've always tried to impress upon people that it's a sensory experience," said the architect Michael Arad, who won the memorial design competition in 2004 with Peter Walker & Partners.

    Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

  11. #161

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    hehe, OK the 30 figure was for exagerration purposes lol, but come on...

    Is the memorial big? Yes, but how can anyone say it wasn't THAT important. War memorials are smaller, why? because the spot of those memorials holds no significance. Go to France, go to Arlington memorial, tell me how small those memorials are. I love NYC because it's a living being that swallows everything like a jungle. Now the memorial will seem big but 50 years from now? Will it be big enough to remember? Will people just pass through it on their way to work? I want people to realize how big the WTC was and how much we lost. New construction will chip at the edges every year and a decade after it's completed people will see nothing more than a park and two pond holes. I need something really grand to make me feel even a little bit better.

  12. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    New construction will chip at the edges every year and a decade after it's completed people will see nothing more than a park and two pond holes. I need something really grand to make me feel even a little bit better.
    I believe the memorial panel made a big mistake when it caved into Maya Lin and adopted a memorial featuring "a park and two pond holes." My prediction is that, in future years, tourists are going to come and go believing all along that Calatrava's terminal is the "memorial," while the actual memorial is ignored. Maybe that's not such a bad thing.

  13. #163

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    because the spot of those memorials holds no significance.
    Go ask a few Vietnam veterans about the significance of the site.

    Arlington is not a memorial; it is a cemetery.

    What exactly is it about the present design that makes it grand? If it's the size, then bigger would be better. How would you feel if the memorial was expanded to 16 acres?

    No cultural center
    No performing arts center
    No Freedom Tower
    No retail

  14. #164

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    In general I think it's fine the way it is right now minus the cultural center unless that changes to more of a WTC center. I'm 100% for the hub and Freedom Tower and can't really say how I feel about the other proposed towers because it seems they will be dissapointing in size and most likely originality.

    Arlington is not much of a memorial but it's a site where there are remains of thousands of heroes. That;s more than I can say for either the WWII or the Vietnam memorial, those are just walls and people visit those sites for those walls of names. I think people will visit the WTC to be on hte site rather tahn to see the memorial itself. I'm not religious at all but that is 3000 of my friends, co-workers, neighbores, and many other things that are buried in that ground. The most perfect memorial would've been a new WTC but since we can't build the memorial vertically we shouldn't constrict its horizontal size. The idea of what should be there is vague at best to me, i don't think there's a correct answer, all I'm saying is I feel that it's extremely important and what we have now is the only thing that I might support, anything less is an injustice to those people.

  15. #165
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Zip, you posted teh sizes of three memorial parks and gave the stats from each. If you want to be strictly mathematical, the Korean War produced 12X more casualties, and probably the same multiple of greiving people from around the country and possibly world than the 9-11 attack.

    Side question, how big is the Pearl Harbor memorial? Where is that located? It is just the Arizona, built out IN the harbor over a sunken vessel?

    Also, when looking at the Vietnam war memorial, and realizing that it takes up less space to memorialize 20X the casualties AND that most of that space is just parkland, you may see what I am trying to get at. The wall itself is smaller than the proposed reflecting pools. The pools are way too grand and, quite frankly, morbid.


    Anyway, people are still shouting with their hearts. I still think that a smaller, central memorial (maybe one where they replace the old globe statue and build a memorial around it in its previous location) and an outlining in different colored tile or stone in the floorworks of whatever buildings are built on the site (like huge versions of chalk outlines) would probably be a more powerful memorial than a huge necrophilial ohmage to the living that lost.

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