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Thread: WTC Memorial - by Michael Arad (Architect) and Peter Walker (Landscape)

  1. #4186

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    Thank you Merry for that article!

    Show me one single instance in which the designers or websites described the memorial pools as being black voids.
    In his own words: Michael Arad, the architect of the 9/11 Memorial on the project.
    "I started thinking about a design in the months immediately after the attack. I started sketching this idea, it was sort of this image in my head of the surface of the Hudson River being torn open and two square voids that the water would rush into and they wouldn’t fill up." Handel Architects LLP[/h]
    show me a single rendering in which they appear as black voids.
    Sketch by M.A.


    Model made by M.A.

  2. #4187

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    Quote Originally Posted by RKOwens44 View Post
    ?????!!!!! What does it say? If you respond to nothing else in this message, please tell me what you think it says. You mentioned how there will be 3,000 names around the pools, I came back saying I have no problem with the bronze nameplates (which is what I thought you were referring to). How is referring to the 3,000 names around the pools as the bronze nameplates in any way "demeaning" or whatever you think it is? That's what they are: bronze nameplates.
    You missed it again.

    It was the next sentence in my post. I'll repeat it:"Do you think the memorial is first and foremost about 3000 people who were killed, or two buildings that were destroyed?"

    I'm not talking about how the nameplates will look.

    Zippy, I remembered how a couple months back or so, when we learned of the changes to 3WTC, you were very upset and felt cheated and said just because we aren't the ones building the tower, we still have a stake in it.
    I already addressed this. I said that you are entitled to your opinion about the pools, but you're insistence that we're not getting what was originally planned is completely wrong. It's not your opinion I disagree with; it's what you're stating as fact. No matter what you were told or what you read, a 30 foot deep pit with 24,000 gallons of water per minute falling into it is not going to produce a Reflecting Pool.

    As I stated earlier [in bold type], the design of 3WTC was changed, and that's what I complained about.

    But just as in this thread, you took it WAY too personally when anyone spoke up saying they were fine with the redesign or even that they liked it.
    If you go to the 3WTC thread, you will find that it was someone with a contrary view to mine that took it WAY too personally.

    If you're perfectly happy with the color of the pools, fine. I would have preferred them to be more re or tranquil-bluer or anything but near-black, but to each his own.
    I think you are the one who's taking it WAY too personally. Some of your replies:

    ??????!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!! In the 3 or 4 years that I've been posting on this forum, this is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard.

    I'm sorry but I never thought I would ever hear someone say that no one ever claimed the design was meant to reflect anything.

    PLEASE tell me you aren't suggesting that the design of the 9/11 memorial should pay tribute to death and destruction. Before you try to say I'm making a straw-man argument, I just want to be clear that this is what you're saying. If this were the intention of the memorial, then they should get rid of the water (which is a symbol of life and renewal) and the trees too (again, a symbol of life). The memorial is and rightfully should be a symbol of life (not death) and renewal (not destruction).
    To each his own?

    Really.

  3. #4188
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Yup. Rick needs to move on.

  4. #4189

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    Yes, Arad's interview seems to refute or temper many of Owens arguments. Hopefully the discussion can move on without the page after page devoted to this increasingly irritating debate beginning to border on incivility. I seldom comment but as interesting as this debate was for a couple of entries it has become quite tiresome and I would welcome it ending.

    I think the entire Memorial Plaza will be sublimely beautiful, contemplative, and emotionally cathartic. The way the urban forest is executed in a semi-formal way is brilliant. It represents for me our perpetual striving for the always impossible to achieve perfection. There are always voids in the grid -- losses in our lives never recoverable. Much could be said of the interplay between the pools and the forest but I'll leave that till another time or person. Forgive me, I've babbled too long.

  5. #4190

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    Quote Originally Posted by scumonkey View Post
    In his own words: Michael Arad, the architect of the 9/11 Memorial on the project.
    Is this your idea of a joke? Michael Arad in this quote describes them as two square voids. Well, duh. The ENTIRE issue here is about their color and non-reflectivity.

    Sketch by M.A.
    Yes, this is totally valid because as we all know, right now there are two voids sitting in the Hudson River just off the coast. (sarcarsm)

    Model made by M.A.
    See above.

  6. #4191

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I said that you are entitled to your opinion about the pools, but you're insistence that we're not getting what was originally planned is completely wrong. It's not your opinion I disagree with; it's what you're stating as fact. No matter what you were told or what you read, a 30 foot deep pit with 24,000 gallons of water per minute falling into it is not going to produce a Reflecting Pool.
    Then they should never have called them reflecting pools! Can you at least agree to that point? A reflecting pool has a very, very specific meaning, and it's not open to interpretation into some metaphorical "inward reflection" idea. Even the Wikipedia page on reflection pools that YOU linked to describes reflection pools as having calm, reflective surfaces. As I have stated all along, the designers should have been able to predict that calm, reflective surfaces would have been impossible given the waterfalls. My point therefore is very, very simple: Don't spend 7 years calling them reflecting pools! And don't put out a hundred renderings and numerous animations depicting them as reflective!

    To each his own?

    Really.
    Dude, you really can't let this go, can you? I tried ending this with my last message, and instead of agreeing to disasgree you go on and on and end it with some snarky comment. So, I'm going to take the high road and AGAIN tell you that you can have whatever opinion you want.

  7. #4192

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    Dude, you really can't let this go, can you?
    it's YOU RK that can't let it go...
    Questions asked- answered (even if you don't like the answer), and yet you still cling
    YOU are the one that must be joking

  8. #4193

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    Quote Originally Posted by RKOwens44 View Post
    Then they should never have called them reflecting pools! Can you at least agree to that point?
    My first post in this discussion. I said:

    "The error wasn't in the realization of the design; the error was in the improper use of the term reflecting pool in PA and memorial literature."

    I've been saying this all along. You haven't been listening.

  9. #4194

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    I think it's good the memorial is somewhat depressing. Here we sit on an impermanent planet as part of a species of idiots that doesn't deserve the Earth we are ruining through shortsightedness and greed. We are wicked, exploitative and completely incapable of cooperation. There really is no hope so something that makes us realize we have a future of only despair, misery and grief is oddly appropriate.



    I guess that puts me not in the "apologist" category.

    Travis (who's still reeling from having yet another drug addict family member rob me again)

  10. #4195
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that ^

    It's a post-modernist use of the term: "Reflecting" deconstructed and inverted.

    Anyway, ground cover going in around the trees and grass ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    And the vents are getting the mesh trimmed out ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #4196

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    ^^^

    The trees and grass look fake in those pics, like a model. Hopefully they will grow in.

  12. #4197

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    At least twice as big. But a lot of them look stressed.

  13. #4198

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    Still missing trees at the north pool.


  14. #4199
    Forum Veteran Daquan13's Avatar
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    As soon as all of the construction equipment in that area has completed its job and moved away, the breath-taking view can be enjoyed by all!

  15. #4200

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    Time lapse video, from beginning to present, of the memorial plaza. About 1 1/2mins & riveting, especially to see the memorial pools take shape, then the trees appear. Glad once that ramp into the hole finally disappeared.

    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...acks-WTC-.html

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