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Thread: WTC Memorial - by Michael Arad (Architect) and Peter Walker (Landscape)

  1. #4741


    BIG difference in someone scrawling Allah Wakbar on the memorial and someone painting Jesus is King on an incomplete hulk of concrete.

    The first is associated with hate and violence the world over; nowhere more so that at that site. The second is just dopey nonsense. Both are religious drivel by two weak minds.

    In the words of Ricky Gervais, "I thank God for making me an atheist".

  2. #4742


    I am not Muslim, but I think "Allah Wakbar" is a simple saying of "God is Great". It is not at all associated with hate and violence, unless you think that the <1% of Muslims that made up Al-Qaeda truly represent the 99% of Muslims that are entirely peaceful. It is to most muslims the same exact thing as Christians saying Hallelujah, which translates to "Praise God". "Jesus is King" could even be considered a hate crime, especially since the owner of WTC 3 is Jewish, and we all know how Jews felt about Jesus declaring himself king...
    Last edited by Fimiak; June 29th, 2012 at 11:40 AM.

  3. #4743


    I'll not get into a deep argument on this one but last time I checked Christians weren't screaming Hallelujah while stoning a teenage girl to death for looking at a boy or while beheading American journalists online. I know it is a minute fraction of Muslims that use Allah Wakbar with regard to violent acts but that, unfortunately, is what I and most western world citizens associate the term with.

    Scrawling it on the memorial is without doubt a hateful act, but it will be swept under the carpet (no security cameras can see the area? There isn't an inch of the entire site on which every move and word can't be seen AND heard. Fact) for fear of offending anyone.

  4. #4744


    There are plenty of KKK members in the US that burnt down black households in the 1950s and 1960s while placing white crosses on the front lawn. There are also modern churches like Westboro Baptist that protest soldier funerals for those who died in Iraq/Afghanistan and which spread anti-gay and anti-Jewish propaganda.

    I am sure, like most Americans, you say "but those are just crazy cult-like churches", but that is exactly what most Muslims say about Wahabbi Muslims (in extremely religious Saudi Arabia) and the Taliban in Pakistan. I think we can all agree that all religious symbolism should be removed from the WTC site.

    If I were Silverstein I would say that the construction worker that defaced my property with pro-Christian (and essentially anti-Jewish) orange graffiti deserves an immediate firing. I consider that much worse than some moron tourist scribbling "God is Great" in pen on a bench.

  5. #4745


    Some nameless looser troll..

  6. #4746


    Annnnnnd back on topic:

    Updated June 28, 2012, 6:17 p.m. ET
    Port chief supports sphere move to 9/11 memorial

    Associated Press

    NEW YORK — Michael Burke's voice still cracks when he talks about how his
    older brother Billy, a firefighter in Manhattan, was helping two people in the
    World Trade Center when the towers fell on Sept. 11, 2001.

    His tone darkens when he talks about the refusal of organizers overseeing the
    9/11 memorial and museum to include a large spherical sculpture that survived
    the attacks and currently sits just south in Battery Park.

    "They say the sphere is reminding us directly of the attacks," he said. "That
    kind of ignores the sphere's existence. It's absurd. Barring it from the site is
    a betrayal."

    Burke received a high-profile endorsement Thursday when Pat Foye, executive
    director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, agreed that the
    sphere should be part of the trade center memorial. Foye spoke after Burke
    delivered a short statement during the public comment segment of the authority's
    monthly board meeting.

    "The point that Mr. Burke made resonates with many people in New York and New
    Jersey and many people here at the Port Authority, especially given the fact
    that 84 members of the Port Authority family were killed on 9/11," Foye said.
    "This is an artifact that survived and was affected by the horrors of 9/11, and
    placing it on the memorial plaza, we think, is entirely appropriate."

    The 25-foot-tall, 45,000-pound sculpture has sat in Battery Park for a decade
    but must be moved to make way for park renovations. It was used as an interim
    memorial in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, and was the site of a
    flame-lighting ceremony featuring Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Afghan President
    Hamid Karzai and officials from about 90 nations a year after the attacks.

    Burke and other victims' family members have gathered thousands of signatures
    in support of putting the sphere on the memorial plaza. But it wasn't included
    in the final design.

    "They say it would infringe on the integrity of the memorial," Burke

    The memorial features a tree-covered plaza and two massive pools that sit in
    the footprints of the fallen towers. The pools are ringed by waterfalls, and a
    parapet engraved with the names of the nearly 3,000 people who died on 9/11 and
    in a 1993 bombing.

    A spokesman for Joseph Daniels, president of the National September 11
    Memorial and Museum, declined to comment on Thursday.

    In May, the Port Authority, the agency that owns the World Trade Center site,
    said it was looking for a place to put the sphere and would make an announcement
    by mid-month, but no announcement followed.

    When asked Thursday who would have the final say on where the sphere would
    reside, Foye would only say he hoped that "the ultimate result will be one that
    is an appropriate site for the sphere and one that's respectful of the views Mr.
    Burke spoke of at our meeting today."

    —Copyright 2012
    Associated Press

  7. #4747
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Nairobi Hilton


    Finally some common sense!

  8. #4748


    I don't think it has a place on the memorial plaza, at least not within the vicinity of the pools, that place has changed in meaning and importance. If not in the museum (where it might never be seen!) I'd like to see it placed somewhere less conspicuous and yet part of the area. Perhaps north of the Transit Hall below T2 or as part of the park above the VSC.

  9. #4749


    I think just north of the visitors' center would be best, but from what I understand, the structure below wasn't designed hold that much concentrated weight. But I do understand how the designers could argue that the sphere might compete with the pools as a memorial being in such close proximity with the pools. In their eyes it would be two memorials in the same space.
    Last edited by Music Man; June 29th, 2012 at 07:23 PM.

  10. #4750


    I can see that argument, but couldn't the same be said about the tridents and their proximity?

  11. #4751


    I think someone might counter that the tridents are within the museum.

  12. #4752
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Nairobi Hilton


    The sphere is a (damaged) art piece. The pools are the true memorials. I think most people would know the difference.

  13. #4753


    If it were to go on the plaza, I could almost see it at the center of the Memorial Glade.

  14. #4754

  15. #4755
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002


    Quote Originally Posted by IrishInNYC View Post
    I don't think it has a place on the memorial plaza, at least not within the vicinity of the pools, that place has changed in meaning and importance.
    They're both symbolic: the sphere of destruction and the pools of renewal. IMO, they are both inextricably linked and should be seen together. Visitors can, of course, contemplate them as they wish: separately or as one.

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