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Thread: WTC Memorial - by Michael Arad (Architect) and Peter Walker (Landscape)

  1. #781

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    Well, he gave his life for a cause...

  2. #782

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    Asinine. The footprints are obviously not the final resting place for those remains because it's obvious there's nothing there now. The reality is that many people's remains were ground/burned into very fine ash and smoke and deposited across lower Manhattan and Brooklyn -- or Staten Island after clean up.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPC
    "The footprints of the World Trade Center are the final resting place for over 30 percent of the individuals who were murdered on Sept. 11, 2001, and whose remains were never found," said court papers filed in state court. "As such, it is considered sacred ground by the petitioners."

  3. #783

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    Quote Originally Posted by vc10
    The reality is that many people's remains were ground/burned into very fine ash and smoke and deposited across lower Manhattan and Brooklyn -- or Staten Island after clean up.
    Could that have been Uncle Ned in my coffee?

  4. #784

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    There's nothing left of those people, the footprints are the only place that could even possibly be imagined as a place to visit someone's grave. Where would you have those people visit? Oh yeah, sorry miss, your husband actually landed at the middle lane of the West Side Highway. Sir, your child's leg remains are in SI, his head is in NJ, and oh yeah I forgot he really died in the PATH station anyway, so we've got a PATH card vending machine there now, hope you feel better.

  5. #785

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    So, if rules are faulty, and those rules produce a faulty product; we should accept the faulty product to maintain the integrity of the faulty rules.

    Your remark
    Ps: Surprise! His long time friend's son, won the design competition.
    jogged my memory.

    You're the guy that sued the LMDC over the memorial competition, right?

    No wonder you keep referring to the design guidelines, while most of us think they are not relevant.

  6. #786
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Let's hope for all our sakes that something starts getting built down here soon -- Ratner at Beekman, 2WTC, F***dom Tower -- something, anything -- lots of posts on this thread and others are showing the strain of waiting for too many big projects that have been proposed but are as of yet unbuilt.

    Seems like exhaustion has set in ...

    Stuck in Stage 3: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...&postcount=527

  7. #787

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    You didn't answer Zip's question. Are you the guy who sued the LMDC over the memorial competition. If so, please tell us how the judge ruled on your cause of action.

  8. #788

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    No wonder you keep referring to the design guidelines, while most of us think they are not relevant.
    Everybody including LMDC and the WTC Foundation now consider the rules "not relevant."

    The winning design is not what Michael Arad put forth. It's what the judging committee put forth. And even then they didn't trust the result and so they hired Peter Walker (whose design was not even a finalist) and put his name on it because they he could plant bushes to hide the sow's ear.

    By all rights in the Ground Zero Comedy Machine, Arad should be a big star like Danny boy. But you never hear from him. He never talks to the press unless he's accompanied by his handlers (and that's only VERY rarely). It's literally in the contract.

    Give City points for saying the emperor has no clothes and that the design does not live up to the lofty rhetoric.

    Give City Big Points for putting his money where his mouth is on this topic.

  9. #789

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    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    Everybody including LMDC and the WTC Foundation now consider the rules "not relevant."

    The winning design is not what Michael Arad put forth. It's what the judging committee put forth. And even then they didn't trust the result and so they hired Peter Walker (whose design was not even a finalist) and put his name on it because they he could plant bushes to hide the sow's ear.
    Basically true, but so what? Putting aside the result, what is wrong from a procedural standpoint of allowing the Committee to mix and match design elements? The committee liked Arad's treatment of the "footprints," but not his surrounding parking-lot-like treatment of the plaza, so it brought in a reknowned landscape architect to soften the design. How is what you are saying criticism? Would you have directed the memorial that it must take or leave all aspects of any particular design? How on earth does that make sense? It seems that you are just criticizing here for criticism's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    By all rights in the Ground Zero Comedy Machine, Arad should be a big star like Danny boy. But you never hear from him. He never talks to the press unless he's accompanied by his handlers (and that's only VERY rarely). It's literally in the contract.
    That is very much to Arad's credit. We have enough media whores in this process without one more.

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    Give City points for saying the emperor has no clothes and that the design does not live up to the lofty rhetoric.
    When did the City say this?

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    Give City Big Points for putting his money where his mouth is on this topic.
    Again, what are you referring to?

  10. #790
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The reference is to CitySlob's posts, methinks ...

  11. #791

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    Ah, thanks, now I sort of understand. But how has CitySlob put his "money where his mouth is" -- by suing the LMDC and losing? If that is the case, then he should take it up with the appeals court, not pester us. Plus, he should tell us what the judge had to say, even if he disagrees.

  12. #792

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    OMG -- what ever happened to altruistic giving? Must everything be turned around to allow for narcissistic endeavors?
    There is no altruism at GZ.

    Gretchen Dykstra is paid $350,000/year to endorse such brilliant ideas as donor stepping stones and tricked out Chevys.

    The venerable John Whitehead is in a questionable situation where he is chairman of both LMDC and the WTC Foundation while his cohorts at Goldman (who are paying his retirment perks) backed out of a planned downtown building to successfully strong arm a more lucrative Liberty Bond package.

    Peter Walker wouldn't plant a bush at GZ unless they put his name on the design (will he also get design credit for the Freedom Tower where he is doing landscapping?).

    Danny boy is making millions in commissions elsewhere even though not a single one of his GZ buildings will ever be built.

    Disasters bring out the best and worst in people.

    We saw the best on 911...

  13. #793

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    March 10, 2006
    Editorial
    Build the Memorial First

    The centerpiece of the rebuilding of downtown Manhattan is the memorial to the victims and survivors of Sept. 11, 2001. Over the last four years, the design for that monument has been chosen carefully, and then refined for reasons that range from the structural to the aesthetic. Like everyone concerned about this crucial site, we have our doubts about some details of the final plan. But the most important thing, by far, is to get the memorial built, and built swiftly.

    This design was a long time coming. Victims' families and other representatives of the community affected by Sept. 11 helped set the standards. Then, after an international competition, judges picked a stunningly simple design by Michael Arad and Peter Walker. The memorial will feature a "forest grove" around two large voids marking where the two World Trade Center towers stood, and it will allow visitors to increase their understanding of the attack as they move down into the memorial itself. Built as designed, it should have the same dramatic power that Maya Lin evoked with her Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington. Yet there are now voices, including some from the victims' families and friends, calling for a delay in building the memorial, or even a total rethinking of the design.

    Some are waving the flag of security, although experts have assured the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation and the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation that the area will be as safe as humanly possible. Others, seeing politicians' squabbling over the site and the Memorial Foundation's difficulty raising funds, sense weakness and hope that they can start pushing for their own favorite but long-discarded plans.

    This is where the political and financial leaders from the area could pitch in. Mayor Michael Bloomberg should start cheerleading for the memorial, not complaining about the cost. And he could help the entire project by persuading his peers in the business community to give money for this important cause. Gov. Jon Corzine of New Jersey, another former chief executive, could also make a difference here. And once he is well enough, Gov. George Pataki of New York should start using more of his fund-raising skills to get the memorial bankrolled.

    Governor Pataki and his allies have repeatedly said that the memorial is the soul of the rebuilding effort. Yes, there are other negotiations going on about who will develop which commercial site. Yes, there are debates about the Freedom Tower and about whether some of the commercial space should be converted to residential use. But none of that can move forward unless the World Trade Center Memorial is financed and on track to be built as was promised, with so much fanfare.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/10fri2.html

  14. #794

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    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    There is no altruism at GZ.

    Gretchen Dykstra is paid $350,000/year to endorse such brilliant ideas as donor stepping stones and tricked out Chevys.
    While I think that a billion-dollar memorial is ridiculous, $350K for the head of a billion dollar project in Manhattan is not outrageous. How much does Phillip Montebelloe make? I would suspect the same ballpark.

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    The venerable John Whitehead is in a questionable situation where he is chairman of both LMDC and the WTC Foundation while his cohorts at Goldman (who are paying his retirment perks) backed out of a planned downtown building to successfully strong arm a more lucrative Liberty Bond package.
    Whitehead retired from Goldman Sachs pre 9/11, and is already worth a gazillion dollars. He has not profited from his civic involvement one iota. Indeed, he could not even convince the LMDC to bring his beloved City Opera down here, which frankly would have been a good idea. GS's current management negotiated the BPC deal, which in any event had nothing to do with either the LMDC nor the WTC memorial committee.

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    Peter Walker wouldn't plant a bush at GZ unless they put his name on the design (will he also get design credit for the Freedom Tower where he is doing landscapping?).
    So what. Why should he NOT get design credit for the landscaping? Where is the scandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    Danny boy is making millions in commissions elsewhere even though not a single one of his GZ buildings will ever be built.
    Good for him. He has a right to earn a living just like the rest of us. He was only the site planner, not building architect, in any event.

    Quote Originally Posted by americasroof
    Disasters bring out the best and worst in people.
    Yes, the rescuers were the best, the terrorists the worst, and the rest of us are all safely in between. Thanks for the profundities.

  15. #795

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    ...Others, seeing politicians' squabbling over the site and the Memorial Foundation's difficulty raising funds, sense weakness and hope that they can start pushing for their own favorite but long-discarded plans.
    http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...&postcount=810

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