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Thread: In Middle Age, the Suburbs of Long Island Show Wear

  1. #31


    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz
    The poor on Long Island are illegally crammed into homes. Because of a shortage of affordable housing, multiple families of immigrants are forced to share individual homes.

    Long Island has expensive homes, and real estate taxes are the highest in the nation. The article fails to mention that these high real estate taxes result in some of the best schools in the nation. Florida has low property taxes, but the schools are awful. Same goes with Nevada, North Carolina and other states mentioned in the article.

    If you attend an Ivy League campus, you will be surrounded by Long Islanders, and there will be very few Floridians, despite the huge Florida population. Living on Long Island is a great investment if you can afford it. If you are retired or don't yet have kids (like the people mentioned in the article), Long Island might not be the best lifestyle.
    I have heard that Long Island schools are extremely good. Which is why I wish the young people wouldn't flee to the sunbelt. Who's gonna fill our schools? Long Island really is a beautiful place(IMO), I would love for it to mkae a huge rebound as a suitable place to begin and stay. Is there any efforts as to building multi-family housing on the island? I can see Long Island building townhomes and even those family apartment buildings (not towers) like you see in the dense sections of NJ or other cities.

  2. #32


    Quote Originally Posted by alex ballard
    I have heard that Long Island schools are extremely good. Which is why I wish the young people wouldn't flee to the sunbelt. Who's gonna fill our schools? Long Island really is a beautiful place(IMO), I would love for it to mkae a huge rebound as a suitable place to begin and stay. Is there any efforts as to building multi-family housing on the island? I can see Long Island building townhomes and even those family apartment buildings (not towers) like you see in the dense sections of NJ or other cities.
    Yes, there are many plans for apartment buildings around the Long Island Rail Road stations.

    I wouldn't worry about Long Island's long-term viability. It's one of the wealthiest places on earth.

  3. #33

    Default 56% of Long Islanders Want to Move off Island

    More Long Islanders Want to Go, Poll Finds

    Last year, Anthony Panariello, 49, sold his home on Long Island for $510,000, making a hefty tax-free profit. He spent about half of that to buy a brand-new, mortgage-free house in Florida with 4,200 square feet and five bedrooms - more than double the size of his old residence.

    And his property tax bill dropped to $4,700 in Florida, from about $10,000 in Seaford in Nassau County. Sales taxes are about a third lower, and he pays no state income tax. He also traded his costly 90-minute trip to Wall Street for a three-minute drive to the new H&R Block office that he is opening next month.

    As housing prices - and tax burdens - soar to historic heights on Long Island, Mr. Panariello is not the only one who has decided to cash in his home equity, pull up stakes and move to more affordable climes.

    "I've come across, in my development alone, maybe 20 people from Long Island who came here around when I did or more recently," said Mr. Panariello, who lives in St. Augustine. "It's the same reasons, the taxes and cost of living."

    Many more are thinking about joining the exodus.

    A survey being released today found that a majority of Long Islanders - 56 percent - say that they may move away within five years. The study is part of the Long Island Index project commissioned by the Rauch Foundation in Garden City. Researchers at Stony Brook University polled 1,215 adults for the survey, which has a margin of sampling error of 2.8 percentage points.

    The urge to leave has risen markedly in just the past year and is especially intense among two age groups, the survey found.

    Sixty-four percent of those in the pre-retirement years of 50 to 64 are considering leaving, up from 47 percent last year, the survey found. For them, the inducements include capturing the huge run-up in the value of homes they bought years ago, enjoying the warmer climate in other regions and downsizing for retirement, especially if their children have grown up and no longer attend the island's highly-rated public schools.

    But even more of the 18-to-34 age group contemplate moving out - 70 percent, up from 62 percent last year. Their motivations include the high cost of rentals, stemming from the island's scarcity of apartments. For many young adults, prohibitively expensive down payments have transformed the dream of a starter home into an elusive fantasy.

    "I was surprised by the increases" in those considering leaving, said Leonie Huddy, a political science professor at Stony Brook who supervised the survey. But the results matched her own observations in her hometown, Huntington. "I see a lot of for-sale signs on lawns, so I think people are testing the waters," she said, "though I don't think they're selling as fast now."

    The findings pose "both a challenge and opportunity" for local leaders to make Long Island a place where people will want to stay, said Nancy R. Douzinas, president of the Rauch Foundation. "The suburban experiment is playing out faster here," she said, and the search for solutions could have national significance.

    Many parents who moved to Long Island to give their children a better life now fear that high costs are forcing out those children, preventing them from having the same opportunities.

    "We're the baby boomers who worked and played the system as best we could, but things are getting worse for this next generation, ratcheting up to where it is almost impossible," said Vilma Nuzio of Bellmore, who runs a church program for the needy.

    Her five children are grown now, but despite their college educations and seemingly decent salaries, Mrs. Nuzio said they cannot afford their own homes on Long Island. One son has already departed for North Carolina, and her other children are living with roommates.

    Since Mr. Paraniello moved, he says his 14 nephews and nieces "are all asking me what to do" - remain on Long Island, or move? He added, "I feel bad for the younger people."

    The younger generation's difficulty with the cost of living is reflected in another survey finding. Forty five percent reported rooming with others, primarily relatives, up sharply from 31 percent the year before.

    Half a century ago, Levittown Movers was formed to truck young couples to America's first post-World War II suburb, as Long Island became the fastest-growing place in the nation. "People were coming in droves," said the company's president, Sal Randazzo.

    But now his company is moving people out of Levittown. "We're seeing an increase, not only the retirees but also families and younger people, moving to South Jersey, upstate New York, Pennsylvania and Florida," Mr. Randazzo said. "They get job offers, and the bottom line, when they do the math, is it's cheaper to move out, even with no pay increase.

    "A friend moved with his wife and two or three kids from Levittown to Pennsylvania, where they got a bigger house," he said. "They showed me a picture of it."

    For all the people leaving the island, however, others are still moving in to take their places, and many are staying put.

    In fact, rising home prices may be keeping some people on Long Island. John Draper, a carpenter from Patchogue who took part in the survey, said he and his wife have talked about leaving. "If it wasn't for the way property values are going up, I might have gone a while ago," he said in an interview. "But I'd be kicking myself if the house doubled in value in the next five or six years."

    Residents say there are many other reasons to stay.

    "Long Island has so much to offer: the proximity to the most wonderful city in the world, the beautiful shores and the wonderful schools," Mrs. Nuzio said, "but there's a price to pay."

    The low crime rate, good jobs, stable neighborhoods, parks and golf courses and plentiful shopping malls also remain major drawing cards, brokers say.

    After several years of double-digit price increases that made the island one of the nation's hottest real estate markets, things are cooling a bit. Still, the demand for housing commanded October median sales prices of $390,000 in Suffolk County and $485,000 in Nassau.

    But the big rub is taxes, which 80 percent of those polled identified as a serious problem. Somewhat paradoxically, 73 percent were generally pleased with government services, but an even more overwhelming 84 percent objected that their tax bills were exorbitant.

    "We're paying more than in any other part of the country," said Paul G. Stillman, a social worker who lives in East Northport. "My best friend just retired and sold his house here and moved to Bloomsburg, Pa. He could get a house there for half what his sold for, with much lower taxes."

    Rising costs also are making it harder for residents to meet their monthly rent or mortgage payments, the survey found. In 2003, about 35 percent reported difficulty in paying those bills, but this year that number climbed to 54 percent.

    But money is not the only factor, and some experts say that many people choose to stay to be near their friends and relatives and the activities they enjoy. "Most people gravitate to where their families are," said Christopher Armstrong, of Century 21 Princeton Properties and the incoming president of the Multiple Listing Service on Long Island.

    Mr. Paraniello said that while "the people are wonderful" in Florida, "the only thing I miss is friends and relatives." Well, that "and the Italian food and deli food."

  4. #34

  5. #35


    Long Island really does need to move it but quick on building more affordable housing.

    The city that baby boomers moved out of to "protect" their children from is calling those kids back in droves.

  6. #36
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    Could find exactly the place to put this article so I figure this thread would have to do for now...

    On Long Island, More Are Priced Out of the Housing Market

    Published: January 26, 2007

    GARDEN CITY, Jan. 24 — In 2000, 60 percent of the homes sold on Long Island could be classified as “affordable” for families earning up to $100,000 a year, under the old rule of thumb that buyers should spend no more than 2.5 times their income on places to live.

    Last year, according to a new report, just 2 percent of the houses sold on Long Island were in that range for families with such earnings, which make up more than 60 percent of Long Island households.

    The staggering drop over six years, according to the Long Island Index, an annual study of local economic and social trends, is the result of sluggish income growth and soaring housing costs, among other factors that have made the area increasingly unaffordable and driven many people away.

    “It took our breath away, that the change has been so dramatic in such a short period of time,” said Ann Golob, director of the study, which is scheduled for official release Friday. The report, titled “In a Tough Spot” puts it bluntly: “The image of our region as a wealthy suburb is far from reality for a growing number of Long Islanders who are struggling to keep up with high and rising costs.”

    Though home prices have retreated in recent months, they remain at near-record levels, a bonanza for many homeowners, at least on paper. Those already living here are insulated from the entry barrier of high prices first-time buyers would face.

    As the nation’s first post-World War II suburb, Long Island flourished for decades as a middle-income alternative to New York City and is now home to nearly three million people.

    Factors contributing to the affordability problem include the loss of higher-paying jobs and growth of lower-paying ones. A decade ago, wages here exceeded the national average by 16 percent; that has shrunk to 5 percent, and average pay has stagnated since 2003.

    At the same time, the number of residents using food stamps rose 20 percent from 2000 to 2003, the most recent data available.

    “Now our income advantage is disappearing, pushing some families near the breaking point,” the report says. In the report’s survey of 808 residents, 58 percent complained of difficulty paying their monthly housing bills, while 54 percent said they were thinking of abandoning Long Island for lower-cost areas. Still, 82 percent called Long Island a good or excellent place to live, but only 48 percent said it was on the right track.

    “I find it hard living on just a pension and Social Security, and I feel bad for the younger people,” said John Schnitzler, a retired banker in East Meadow, N.Y. Still, Mr. Schnitzler said he enjoyed his three-bedroom home and the convenience of being “45 minutes from the city, 10 minutes to the beach, with the malls right here.”

    The report, sponsored by the Garden City-based Rauch Foundation, has been produced annually since 2004, with the advice of academic, civic, labor and other groups.

    “Taken as whole, Long Island’s story has been a success story,” it says. “But our continued success is now in doubt. We face significant problems, which yearly grow worse.”

    In a competitive economy, the report warned, Long Island will lose out to other areas unless it expands business and housing and reduces taxes. “In an era of easy mobility, a region defers change at its peril,” it said.

    The 2.5-times-income formula for home prices is often ignored across the New York metropolitan area, where many residents spend disproportionately for shelter and shortchange other parts of their budget compared with other parts of the country.

    The report did not adjust housing prices for changing mortgage rates, which were about two percentage points higher in 2000. But Ms. Golob noted that homeowners who bought then were able to cut carrying costs by refinancing as rates fell.

    Beyond home prices and mortgage rates, an additional factor in the cost of housing is property taxes. They are notoriously high on Long Island and have jumped faster than inflation, the report said.

    Many residents are under financial stress because of scant income growth, up 2 percent on average since 2000. Meanwhile, they are squeezed by the rising costs of taxes, heating, electricity and gasoline. Even for families with incomes above $110,000, 43 percent report difficulty in paying housing bills.

    Long Island has yet to replace the aerospace and defense industry that once drove the economy, Ms. Golob said. Venture capital investment and federal research grants have fallen.

    Research at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory has generated businesses. Its president, Dr. Bruce W. Stillman, said the island needs more cooperation by government, academia and business. Finding housing for researchers is so difficult that the lab assigns an administrator to help place them, sometimes in houses it bought for that purpose.

    “People love their hometown of Long Island — they just can’t afford it any more,” the Nassau County executive, Thomas R. Suozzi, said in response to the report. “We remodeled the Levitt houses, and now we have to remodel the suburban paradigm.”

    Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

  7. #37


    Stop spending money on......things.

    I think that is the main difference.

    Previous generations didn't spend money on some of the things that people spend money on today and if young people today.....didn't think that they should spend money on those things......there would be a lot more money around for them to use for LIVING.

    You actually can live without a cell phone, cable TV, coffee (bought outside), food (bought outside), expensive sneakers, Internet service, wide screen TV, newer cars, geeeez.....the list is almost endless............

    All of those things you should have to EARN become a responsible citizen.

    You know......that's how the people that lived here (LONG ISLAND) before did it.....I bet it would work for ALL those young people, too.

    It's like raising children today.....others did it before.....

    All you need to do is give up your life. That's how OUR parents did it. If ONE parent stayed home.....yes, the kids acyually need parents. Stop pawning them off on daycare. are all afraid of the word.

    Someone needs to tell the truth.

  8. #38
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Manhattan - South Village


    Hey Pandadoll, please use the same font size as everyone else, it's even more annoying than your repetitive rants.

  9. #39


    Quote Originally Posted by Pandadoll View Post
    Stop spending money on......things.

    I think that is the main difference.

    [SIZE=4]Previous generations didn't spend money....

    Someone needs to tell the truth.
    Is this JeffPark writing under a new name?

  10. #40


    Quote Originally Posted by Pandadoll View Post
    You actually can live without a cell phone, cable TV, coffee (bought outside), food (bought outside), expensive sneakers, Internet service, wide screen TV, newer cars, geeeez.....the list is almost endless............
    Even if young people gave up everything on your list, most of them still couldn't afford to invest in decent housing in Nassau County.

  11. #41
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003


    2 sides PD.

    While I agree that the comparisons we have between now and then are skewed because of what we all percieve to be "average" nowadays, it is still not up to us to somehow roll back the clock to the "good old days".

    They were not that good.

    There were still delinquints, and crime, and all sorts of things, they were (and are) just not as widely publicized as they are today.

    I think you hit it when you talked about one income versus two, but you jumped right off the boat when you started calling for a parent to give up their career and not "pawn off on daycare". Don't confuse the two arguments or you will not get any respect for the valid points you bring to a discussion.

    The thing about the incomes is simple, and you are right we are not comparing the same thing. But you also missed it when it came to housing prices. Many areas have their housing costs go many times above the COMBINED income levels reccommended for purchase these days. You can say that is from size and scope of the dwellings, which is true in a lot of cases, but some of these little places are selling for only slightly less than their McMansions. The locaion factor has gotten too weighty and will soon prompt more of a fracturing of the central buisness model we have going now with NYC, Hartford, Boston and other major municipalities. You will see more Jersey Cities and others.

    So I guess what I am trying to say here is that too many comparisons are trying to do a 1 to 1 comparison with all of this stuff when there are many factors that contribute to them. You are right in pointing out some (1 income vs. 2, and "toy" purchases) but you should just dfrop the whole day care rant.

    Oh, also, get rid of the fonts and colors. We can read just fine and as you see, it only annoys the people you are (hopefully) trying to communicate WITH.

  12. #42

    Default Newsday Poll on L.I. Living

    Feeling squeeze of living on LI

    In a new survey, residents express their concern about the region's stagnant wages, higher taxes and the rising cost of living

    Newsday Staff Writers
    January 26, 2007

    The dream of suburbia - a robust economy, a comfortable paycheck, affordable living - may be slipping away for many Long Islanders, although they continue to feel pride in their region, according to a poll released today by the Long Island Index.

    Although the vast majority, 82 percent, consider the region an excellent or good place to live, many are also pessimistic about the future, the poll found. The culprit, experts say, is an old foe: a cost of living that is one of the highest in the nation.

    "We are seeing people feel very squeezed," said Leonie Huddy, director of the Stony Brook University Center for Survey Research, which conducted the poll last fall for the Index. "For many people, their wages aren't going up but their housing costs are going up, taxes are going up. ... If your income is flat and your costs are going up, it doesn't feel so great."

    Fully 70 percent of 808 Long Islanders polled in the telephone survey said they expected the economies of Nassau and Suffolk to remain stagnant or worsen in the next year. The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points.

    "It increases my respect for the man and woman in the field out there," said Pearl Kamer, chief economist for the Long Island Association. "We have a flat economy; it's not a declining economy, however, we've had virtually no job growth over the past year."

    Huddy and others said the results reflect the Island's changing job market, as high-wage employers shrink payroll, and low-wage retailers, health care providers and tourist-related businesses are hiring. This shift has meant local wage growth lagged the national rate from 1996 through 2006, and pay per employee has been virtually stagnant since 2003, the report said.

    Eileen Worth, an accountant from Williston Park who participated in the survey, said it's middle-class people like herself and her husband, a registered nurse, who feel the impact. "I think there's some people that are making tremendous salaries," said Worth, who is 47 and has two kids in college, plus a son in private school. "The jobs that my husband and I are in, we're not getting these salaries. We're barely getting a cost-of-living raise."

    Worth's hunch is supported by statistics. Families who earn in the top 10 percent of households saw their wages increase by 12 percent between 1996 and 2006, the report found. However, those in the bottom 10 percent saw their pay drop by 1 percent during the same period.

    This has meant a growing number of residents are having trouble making rent or mortgage payments. The 2006 poll showed no improvement from earlier surveys; 58 percent of respondents said it was "very" or "somewhat" difficult to pay their monthly housing bill.

    These conditions have led many Long Islanders to consider moving to more affordable areas, including Paul Carrizo, 34, of Hicksville, another poll participant. He said he's considered moving to Virginia but hasn't been able to secure a transfer from his job as a foreman for Verizon. "It's just getting worse," he said. "Every year, our taxes are going up on our house. Your mortgage is set where you think you can survive, but every year it just keeps going up."

    Carrizo's impulse to leave is understandable to Nancy Rauch Douzinas, president of the Rauch Foundation, which created the Long Island Index in 2002 to increase awareness of issues such as the rising cost of living. While Long Island wages were historically up to 20 percent higher than the rest of the nation, the gap has narrowed to about 5 percent, Douzinas said.

    According to the survey, just more than three in four Long Islanders, 78 percent, say the possible exodus of young people from their county is an extremely or very serious problem, similar to last year's results. Just more than half of those surveyed, 54 percent, said they were either somewhat or very likely to move in the next five years, a number that was also the same as last year, but an increase over 2004.

    Many residents "are in a pretty tight spot," Douzinas said. "They can no longer really afford to have the kind of life they've had here."

    Island life

    Pollsters interviewed 808 residents by phone last fall for the 2006 survey.


    How strongly do you identify with Long Island?

    Very strongly 56%


    Generally speaking, do you think things in Nassau/Suffolk County are headed in the right direction or the wrong direction?

    Right direction 48%

    Wrong direction 39%


    Overall, what do you think is the MOST important problem facing residents of Nassau/Suffolk County today?

    Taxes/property taxes 45%

    Economy/Cost of Living/Jobs/Poverty 10%

    Lack of Adequate and Affordable Housing 7%

    Gangs/Violence/Crime/Law Enforcement/Safety 7%


    In your view, how serious a problem are high property taxes in Nassau/Suffolk County?

    Extremely serious 44%


    How concerned are you that the high cost of living will force members of your family to move out of Nassau/Suffolk County?

    Very concerned 50%


    What do you like BEST about living on Long Island?

    Accessibility to beaches, water activities, parks 24%

    Accessibility to city, location 14%

    Environment, open space, peaceful, etc. 13%

    Friends, family, roots, born & raised in area 13%

    What do you like LEAST about living on Long Island?

    Taxes, property taxes 21%

    Traffic, commute, roads, distance to work 21%

    Expensive, high cost of living, economy 16%,0,184010.story?page=1&track=r ss

    I copied the poll results word-for-word, yet somehow they look incomplete.

  13. #43


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    Oh, also, get rid of the fonts and colors. We can read just fine and as you see, it only annoys the people you are (hopefully) trying to communicate WITH.
    There are a few of us who have close-up vision problems that can't be completely corrected with lenses, and we actually prefer larger or bolder print. But I speak for a small minority.

  14. #44


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    2 sides PD.

  15. #45

    Cool Loving Long Island

    These message boards have the ability to change typeface and color......EVERYONE should be using it....It is so much more descriptive.....than....BORING regular TYPE! know, I'm sorry, that you don't get it, I'm sorry you don't like the type......and I'm sorry that you think I am ranting....I'm, get over yourself.

    Hey, I'm living on Long Island, I'm NOT leaving and I'm NOT going to let prices or whatever prevent me from staying here, the place that I love.

    If anyone is not up to the challenge of making life what you want it to be......then......quit.

    That's the answer. I am willing to tough it out and do what ever is necessary to stay here....I don't have to be a slave to technology in order to USE it. I don't subscribe to CABLE.....they don't need my money. I'd rather spend my money on housing. That's the point I was trying to make. That's how I can tell..............that you don't get it.

    I'm willing to even CHANGE things HERE.......You have to participate in LIFE....Not just WATCH. You don't like the way things work to change it. Not run away to somewhere else. That's why we have such an illegal immigrant problem (oh and please don't forget WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS) ......all those folks should change their own country....not come here and expect it(this country) to take care of them.

    See.....I am think this a rant to....NOT!

    You just seem to have a hard time.....hearing the truth.

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