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Thread: The Presidential Election

  1. #106


  2. #107



    I got a perfect score on the Bible Quiz - and then the truth was revealed to me.

    Different views
    Of reds and blues.

  3. #108


    2002 Per Capita Income from the statistical abstracts, ranked by presidential vote:

    State PCI Ranking
    CN 38540 1
    DC 37922 2
    NJ 35541 3
    MA 35333 4
    MD 32680 5
    NY 32451 6
    NH 30912 7
    MN 30675 8
    IL 30075 9
    CA 29707 11
    DL 29512 13
    WA 29420 14
    PA 28565 16
    RI 28198 17
    MI 27276 19
    HI 27011 21
    WI 26941 22
    VT 26620 25
    OR 25867 30
    ME 24979 34
    Avg 30411.25 13.35

    State PCI Ranking
    CO 29959 10
    VA 29641 12
    AK 28947 15
    WY 27530 18
    NV 27172 20
    NE 26804 23
    FL 26646 24
    OH 26474 26
    KN 26237 27
    MO 26052 28
    GA 25949 29
    TX 25705 31
    IA 25461 32
    IN 25425 33
    NC 24949 35
    TN 24913 36
    ND 24293 37
    SD 24214 38
    AZ 23573 39
    KY 23030 40
    OK 23026 41
    LA 22910 42
    SC 22868 43
    AB 22642 44
    ID 22560 45
    MT 22526 46
    UT 21883 47
    NM 21555 48
    WV 21327 49
    AL 21169 50
    MS 20142 51
    Avg 24696.19 34.16

    With the regressive flat tax and national sales tax proposals, makes you wonder why we're not Republicans, doesn't it?

  4. #109

  5. #110
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    New York City


    Here's another secession map floating around...

  6. #111


    why only the shoreline is included for Calif? The state as a whole should be blue. :?

  7. #112
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    New York City


    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVNYC
    why only the shoreline is included for Calif? The state as a whole should be blue. :?
    The interior, which is not as heavily-populated as the coast, voted overwhelmingly Republican.

  8. #113


    November 14, 2004


    On 'Moral Values,' It's Blue in a Landslide

    FAREWELL to Swift boats and "Shove it!," to Osama's tape and Saddam's missing weapons, to "security moms" and outsourced dads. They've all been sent to history's dustbin faster than Ralph Nader memorabilia was dumped on eBay. In their stead stands a single ambiguous phrase coined by an anonymous exit pollster: "Moral values." By near universal agreement the morning after, these two words tell the entire story of the election: it's the culture, stupid.

    "It really is Michael Moore versus Mel Gibson," said Newt Gingrich. To Jon Stewart, Nov. 2 was the red states' revenge on "Will & Grace." William Safire, speaking on "Meet the Press," called the Janet Jackson fracas "the social-political event of the past year." Karl Rove was of the same mind: "I think it's people who are concerned about the coarseness of our culture, about what they see on the television sets, what they see in the movies ..."

    And let's not even get started on the two most dreaded words in American comedy, regardless of your party affiliation: Whoopi Goldberg.

    There's only one problem with the storyline proclaiming that the country swung to the right on cultural issues in 2004. Like so many other narratives that immediately calcify into our 24/7 media's conventional wisdom, it is fiction. Everything about the election results - and about American culture itself - confirms an inescapable reality: John Kerry's defeat notwithstanding, it's blue America, not red, that is inexorably winning the culture war, and by a landslide. Kerry voters who have been flagellating themselves since Election Day with a vengeance worthy of "The Passion of the Christ" should wake up and smell the Chardonnay.

    The blue ascendancy is nearly as strong among Republicans as it is among Democrats. Those whose "moral values" are invested in cultural heroes like the accused loofah fetishist Bill O'Reilly and the self-gratifying drug consumer Rush Limbaugh are surely joking when they turn apoplectic over MTV. William Bennett's name is now as synonymous with Las Vegas as silicone. The Democrats' Ashton Kutcher is trumped by the Republicans' Britney Spears. Excess and vulgarity, as always, enjoy a vast, bipartisan constituency, and in a democracy no political party will ever stamp them out.

    If anyone is laughing all the way to the bank this election year, it must be the undisputed king of the red cultural elite, Rupert Murdoch. Fox News is a rising profit center within his News Corporation, and each red-state dollar that it makes can be plowed back into the rest of Fox's very blue entertainment portfolio. The Murdoch cultural stable includes recent books like Jenna Jameson's "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star" and the Vivid Girls' "How to Have a XXX Sex Life," which have both been synergistically, even joyously, promoted on Fox News by willing hosts like Rita Cosby and, needless to say, Mr. O'Reilly. There are "real fun parts and exciting parts," said Ms. Cosby to Ms. Jameson on Fox News's "Big Story Weekend," an encounter broadcast on Saturday at 9 p.m., assuring its maximum exposure to unsupervised kids.

    Almost unnoticed in the final weeks of the campaign was the record government indecency fine levied against another prime-time Fox television product, "Married by America." The $1.2 million bill, a mere bagatelle to Murdoch stockholders, was more than twice the punishment inflicted on Viacom for Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction." According to the F.C.C. complaint, one episode in this heterosexual marriage-promoting reality show included scenes in which "partygoers lick whipped cream from strippers' bodies," and two female strippers "playfully spank" a man on all fours in his underwear. "Married by America" is gone now, but Fox remains the go-to network for Paris Hilton ("The Simple Life") and wife-swapping ("Trading Spouses: Meet Your New Mommy").

    None of this has prompted an uprising from the red-state Fox News loyalists supposedly so preoccupied with "moral values." They all gladly contribute fungible dollars to Fox culture by boosting their fair-and-balanced channel's rise in the ratings. Some of these red staters may want to make love like porn stars besides. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) An ABC News poll two weeks before the election found that more Republicans than Democrats enjoy sex "a great deal." The Democrats' new hero, Illinois Senator-elect Barack Obama, was assured victory once his original, ostentatiously pious Republican opponent, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race rather than defend his taste for "avant-garde" sex clubs.

    The 22 percent of voters who told pollsters that "moral values" were their top election issue - 79 percent of whom voted for Bush-Cheney - corresponds almost exactly to the number of voters (23 percent) who describe themselves as born-again or evangelical Christians. They are entitled to their culture, too, and their own entertainment industry. And their own show-biz scandals. The Los Angeles Times reported this summer that Paul Crouch, the evangelist who founded the largest Christian network, Trinity Broadcasting Network, vehemently denied a former employee's accusation that the two had had a homosexual encounter - though not before paying the employee a $425,000 settlement. Not so incidentally, Trinity joined Gary Bauer and Fox News as prime movers in "Redeem the Vote," the Christian-rock alternative to MTV's "Rock the Vote."

    But the distance between this hard-core red culture and the majority blue culture is perhaps best captured by Tom Coburn, the newly elected Republican senator from Oklahoma, lately famous for discovering "rampant" lesbianism in that state's schools. As a congressman in 1997, Mr. Coburn attacked NBC for encouraging "irresponsible sexual behavior" and taking "network TV to an all-time low with full frontal nudity, violence and profanity being shown in our homes." The broadcast that prompted his outrage on behalf of "parents and decent-minded individuals everywhere" was the network's prime-time showing of Steven Spielberg's "Schindler's List."

    It's in the G.O.P.'s interest to pander to this far-right constituency - votes are votes - but you can be certain that a party joined at the hip to much of corporate America, Mr. Murdoch included, will take no action to curtail the blue culture these voters deplore. As Marshall Wittman, an independent-minded former associate of both Ralph Reed and John McCain, wrote before the election, "The only things the religious conservatives get are largely symbolic votes on proposals guaranteed to fail, such as the gay marriage constitutional amendment." That amendment has never had a prayer of rounding up the two-thirds majority needed for passage and still doesn't.

    Mr. Wittman echoes Thomas Frank, the author of "What's the Matter With Kansas?," by common consent the year's most prescient political book. "Values," Mr. Frank writes, "always take a backseat to the needs of money once the elections are won." Under this perennial "trick," as he calls it, Republican politicians promise to stop abortion and force the culture industry "to clean up its act" - until the votes are counted. Then they return to their higher priorities, like cutting capital gains and estate taxes. Mr. Murdoch and his fellow cultural barons - from Sumner Redstone, the Bush-endorsing C.E.O. of Viacom, to Richard Parsons, the Republican C.E.O. of Time Warner, to Jeffrey Immelt, the Bush-contributing C.E.O. of G.E. (NBC Universal) - are about to be rewarded not just with more tax breaks but also with deregulatory goodies increasing their power to market salacious entertainment. It's they, not Susan Sarandon and Bruce Springsteen, who actually set the cultural agenda Gary Bauer and company say they despise.

    But it's not only the G.O.P.'s fealty to its financial backers that is predictive of how little cultural bang the "values" voters will get for their Bush-Cheney votes. At 78 percent, the nonvalues voters have far more votes than they do, and both parties will cater to that overwhelming majority's blue tastes first and last. Their mandate is clear: The same poll that clocked "moral values" partisans at 22 percent of the electorate found that nearly three times as many Americans approve of some form of legal status for gay couples, whether civil unions (35 percent) or marriage (27 percent). Do the math and you'll find that the poll also shows that for all the G.O.P.'s efforts to court Jews, the total number of Jewish Republican voters in 2004, while up from 2000, was still some 200,000 less than the number of gay Republican voters.

    When Robert Novak writes after the election that "the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, socially conservative agenda is ascendant, and the G.O.P. will not abandon it anytime soon," you have to wonder what drug he is on. The abandonment began at the convention. Sam Brownback, the Kansas senator who champions the religious right, was locked away in an off-camera rally across town from Madison Square Garden. Prime time was bestowed upon the three biggest stars in post-Bush Republican politics: Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger. All are supporters of gay rights and opponents of the same-sex marriage constitutional amendment. Only Mr. McCain calls himself pro-life, and he's never made abortion a cause. None of the three support the Bush administration position on stem-cell research. When the No. 1 "moral values" movie star, Mel Gibson, condemned the Schwarzenegger-endorsed California ballot initiative expanding and financing stem-cell research, the governor and voters crushed him like a girlie-man. The measure carried by 59 percent, which is consistent with national polling on the issue.

    If the Republican party's next round of leaders are all cool with blue culture, why should Democrats run after the red? Received Washington wisdom has it that the only Democrat who will ever be able to win a national election must be a cross between Gomer Pyle and Billy Sunday - a Scripture-quoting Sun Belt exurbanite whose loyalty to Nascar does not extend to Dale Earnhardt Jr., who was fined last month for saying a four-letter word on television.

    According to this argument, the values voters the Democrats must pander to are people like Cary and Tara Leslie, archetypal Ohio evangelical "Bush votes come to life" apotheosized by The Washington Post right after Election Day. The Leslies swear by "moral absolutes," support a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and mostly watch Fox News. Mr. Leslie has also watched his income drop from $55,000 to $35,000 since 2001, forcing himself, his wife and his three young children into the ranks of what he calls the "working poor." Maybe by 2008 some Democrat will figure out how to persuade him that it might be a higher moral value to worry about the future of his own family than some gay family he hasn't even met.

    Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

  9. #114


    Quote Originally Posted by LuPeRcALiO
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Tower
    There were also cheers when the Germans rolled into Paris.
    I have been pretty busy lately and just came back to read what all of you are saying about the election. I expected this thread to be abandoned by all of you dissapointed liberals, but I guess I shouldn't be too shocked that even after Bush gets almost 4 million more popular votes than Kerry and also the necessary electoral votes and then some, AND all of the country rebelled against the liberal elite in the media and hollywood, that you liberals manage to turn it around and make it sound like the whole country is out of touch with the exception of 10 or so states.

    And now for my response to LuPeRcALiO:

    And there were cheers when the Americans drove the Germans out... but some years later the French not only forgot about it, but completely turned against America. So I don't see what the problem is cheering on Germans rolling into Paris. If the Germans rolled into Paris today I'd be cheering. Only this time us Americans wouldn't lose American soldiers' lives saving an ungrateful elitist nation such as France.

    Same as if all the blue states wanted to go to Canada, I would not miss them at all. Also funny how everyone says the blue states are the tax paying states. Then you say that republicans are rich and don't want higher taxes for the rich. So who is paying the taxes now? Get it right. Because it is the librals that want to tax the rich more and give to the poor, which one of you liberals suggested a few lines back.

    And people really need to stop including Canada in the map to make it seem as if there is a stronger liberal presence than conservative. We all know canada is liberal but they have nothing to do with our elections. When you show red states and blue states - without our northern neihbors - then you truly see who is out of touch and confused in our country.

  10. #115


    View at your own will.. If your ANTI-BUSH

  11. #116


    Didn't FT state he was going to join the military?

    I guess not.

    Cold feet?

    The map of Canada is satire, a political joke. How can anyone be so dense? :roll:

    The "contradiction" you stated you found about blue states paying more in taxes and rich republicans wanting lower taxes has a major error. Since the map jokes sailed over your head, it would be a waste of time to explain it, but I'll give you a hint.

    People and acres.

    Have some fun and figure it out.

  12. #117
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    New York City


    Quote Originally Posted by Archit_K
    View at your own will.. If your ANTI-BUSH
    How sweet of him. So glad that we have a man with morals and values in the Oval Office.

  13. #118


    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Didn't FT state he was going to join the military?

    I guess not.

    Cold feet?

    The map of Canada is satire, a political joke. How can anyone be so dense? :roll:

    The "contradiction" you stated you found about blue states paying more in taxes and rich republicans wanting lower taxes has a major error. Since the map jokes sailed over your head, it would be a waste of time to explain it, but I'll give you a hint.

    People and acres.

    Have some fun and figure it out.
    Hmm.. FT isn't one who likes to reveal personal information over the internet for all to see, but FT is 17 years old. He still has to wait three months before joining the military is even an option. That is why I tried to avoid the issue before - but I may as well clear it up now. P.S. - I still haven't decided whether to join or not when I am 18 - I'm still considering my options, just in case that is your next question.

    Now that you can get that out of the way, let me mention something else: I understand that the map with Canada was political satire but it also seems ironic that the same group of people who say Bush is such a "divider" are the ones that like to label the rest of the country "Jesusland" and are really the ones making divisions in this country. Satire or not you shouldn't label one party a "dividing" party and then turn around and divide the country on a map yourself.

    BTW, an above post shows the PER CAPITA income in states for Bush and Kerry. That would mean per person, and just because Kerry states are more densely populated has nothing to do with the Per Capita Income. Individuals on average, earn more money in Kerry states than in Bush states. It makes all that conservative flat tax idea and liberal "progressive" tax idea seem hypocritical, which I believe is also mentioned above.

    At the same time, if you are insisting that because Kerry states are more densely populated that means kerry has more supporters paying taxes to the government, while bush people are just benefiting from them that is still wrong. Bush has over 4 million more popular votes. So therefore Bush people are still probably paying more money to the government as a group than kerry people despite the fact that they have a lower PCI.

    Anything I'm still missing?

  14. #119


    Quote Originally Posted by TLOZ Link5
    Quote Originally Posted by Archit_K
    View at your own will.. If your ANTI-BUSH
    How sweet of him. So glad that we have a man with morals and values in the Oval Office.
    I've seen that video a few times myself. While I don't personally think it's the best thing he can be doing morally, I believe his morals are great in comparison with Clinton's. Personally I believe "flipping the bird" is nowhere near as immoral as cheating on your wife with your secretary, but that's just me. It's also not as immoral as Ted Kennedy's "leave a girl to drown in your car" mentality. It would be absurd to think that everyone doesn't use a little profanity or obscene gestures every now and then.

  15. #120


    Roll this one around in your skull:

    Black and white thinking leads one to lose sight of the fact that it's not only Republicans who are rich and Democrats who are poor. So when Republicans' tax policies shift the burden from higher to lower income groups, rich Democrats benefit and poor Republicans suffer.

    I am certain that I have a much higher income and more wealth than you. The Bush tax cuts don't hurt me at all. In fact, I would really benefit if Bush would just eliminate the capital gains tax. Of course, given the deficit and impending SS shortfall, new sources of revenue and/or cuts in government spending would have to be found. Where do you think the Republicans are going to place that burden? Not just on middle and low income Democrats, but on loyal Republicans like you.

    Of course, I didn't pull the lever for Bush because my own economic well being is not my only criteria for choosing a candidate. I don't think it is fair that I should do better by stepping on someone less fortunate than me, as I expect the same from someone more fortunate.

    So I hope you are happy with our "moral" president, because you are the one who is going to be asked to refund SS while I am drawing money out.

    P.T. Barnum was right.

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