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Thread: Madison Square Garden - 4 Penn Plaza - by Charles Luckman Associates

  1. #391

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    As far as I know no steam locomotive (or perhaps very few) have ever traveled through the Hudson tubes and into Pennsylvania Station. It was electrified with a DC current from its beginning.

    That dirt came from something else.

  2. #392

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    ^
    Yeah, the city.

  3. #393

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    Yeah, what was I thinking? The city produced plenty of soot without steam trains. Used to be, if you blew your nose you could see it on your kleenex.

  4. #394

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    An extreme example of early 20th century soot pollution from Pittsburgh.

    The Carnegie Free Library in Allegheny (also the first Carnegie Music Hall). Photo taken in the mid 1930s. The building was less than 40 years old.


    How it's supposed to look.

  5. #395
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    People say London used to look like that.

  6. #396

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    ...like Pittsburgh?

    Who would ever make that comparison?









  7. #397
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    *Beats Troyeth with stick*...

  8. #398

    Angry

    Crain's
    September 25, 2009 3:42 PM

    MSG renovation moves ahead
    16 jobs to be eliminated at street-level studio across the way.

    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...FREE/909259990

    Madison Square Garden has taken another small step on the path toward its $500 million renovation.

    The street level television studio at 11 Penn Plaza, across the street from the Garden, will be shut down for renovations Dec. 1. MSG Media will reopen the studio “with expanded capabilities in the near future,” an MSG spokesman said on Friday.

    About 16 employees at the television studio will lose their jobs, according to a person familiar with the situation. A spokeswoman, citing company policy, declined to comment on layoffs.

    The studio, which is used by music cable network Fuse, is being renovated to make additional room for MSG Media staffers who are currently located in the Garden. Fuse will continue to operate out of the space when the renovation is finished.

    The space in the Garden that is currently being used for offices will be opened up to create wider aisles, new bathrooms and more food kiosks as the sports and entertainment arena undergoes its own renovation.

    MSG Media, which is a division of Madison Square Garden, is owned by Cablevision Systems Corp.

    The first part of the Garden’s top to bottom renovation is expected to be completed for the 2011-2012 season.

  9. #399

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    That article doesn't really address MSG at all. The renovation they're addressing is across the street.

    I am very skeptical this renovation will happen. I think the Dolans will sell in the next few years. Their shareholders have been begging for this.

  10. #400

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    If the Dolans sell, its more likely that they'll sell off Cablevision, which is in a highly competitive market, and keep MSG.

  11. #401
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    It does state that they are reclaiming space at 11 PP in order to free up interior MSG space-to-be-renovated / reconfigured.

    Why would they toss out a paying tenant and move their own operations across the street if they weren't going to move ahead with work on the Garden?

  12. #402

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    This is a disgrace. The public and press should know what a horrible missed opportunity this is. The press should be on it, people should be talking. Pictures of what could have been and what will be should be outside the station and in newspapers, on the TV news. The City is allowing another Penn Station demolition basically I feel, by not working extremely hard to remedy the crime that was once committed. This man needs to be convinced, with incentives, a new site, whatever. This is no ordinary site due to the significance of what took place here. By failing to act, this is devestating and gives a poor image of the city's leadership in regards to urban design. This is a huge opportunity to create something for the urban realm of NYC, and everyone's just giving in to this little rich philistine, who probably couldn't give a damn about design or the experience of the everyday train commuter. We need to get somebody to intervene -- shame on Vornado. Maybe some developer with a little bit of smarts could salvage this disgusting act. Why should we wait another 50 years for this toilet bowl to be demolished?

    At the very least, a new station could have been built above ground with the garden on top --> at least that would have improved things. There is no reason to let this happen at all!
    Last edited by futurecity; September 27th, 2009 at 02:46 PM.

  13. #403

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecity View Post
    At the very least, a new station could have been built above ground with the garden on top --> at least that would have improved things. There is no reason to let this happen at all!
    That is impossible.

    The only order is:
    1. Build a duplicate arena.
    2. Demolish the existing MSG.
    3. Build a new station.

  14. #404

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    Costly, but not impossible I bet. I'm sure someone could figure out how to put an arena on top of a large open space. You'd no longer have any daylight comming from the roof, but still....better than nothing.

    Anyway, they dropped the ball...this is one of those times that the City should intervene, given the significance of this site to NY as a whole. NYers should be outraged that Dolan could be so selfish when the opportunity to correct a major historical faux pas could be rectified.

    Why is Dolan so reluctant to build a new arena in the old post office? If its cost, the city should really step in here. Surely a new arena could offer him more revenue in the future? This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to offer incentives to Dolan to move. If not the old post ofice, surely there is some other underutilised site over on the west side that he could be enticed with? There seem to be many sites nearby.
    Last edited by futurecity; September 27th, 2009 at 04:19 PM.

  15. #405

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurecity View Post
    Costly, but not impossible
    Give me the order of destruction/construction.

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