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Thread: Madison Square Garden - 4 Penn Plaza - by Charles Luckman Associates

  1. #61
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLOZ Link5
    If they try to designate MSG, I might just steal a wrecking ball and knock it down myself.

    Haha... count me in!

    Seriously... This building just plain sucks!

  2. #62
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    The building hs bee altered so many times it is a Frankenbuilding. I'd like to see Dolan strapped to the wrecking ball as it swings into this ugly thing.

  3. #63

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    The MSG? There´s nothing about this building that shouts 1968... so I don´t see why it should be preserved. It doesn´t represent any particular movement or school of architecture. OK, it does have that hideous late 60´s crap brown color that later showed up on kitchen appliances (along with avocado), but that´s all I can think of.

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    Default Destroy Madison Square Gardens

    I saw it in the paper today, An idea to tear town MSG and put development there.


    Anyone know anyhting about this?

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  6. #66

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    Well I'd like to know if a source exists for this...

  7. #67
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    It was in the NYTimes...I tried to look it up on Google news but I couldn't find it.

  8. #68
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    According to LeCom at Skyscraperpage he saw designs for three towers on the Madison Square Garden site. He said they are building a 90 story residential, 71 story hotel and 50 story office there.

  9. #69
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    Tear it down and FAST!

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    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime
    According to LeCom at Skyscraperpage he saw designs for three towers on the Madison Square Garden site. He said they are building a 90 story residential, 71 story hotel and 50 story office there.


    That must be it, but it's probably a pipe dream if the towers are 70-90 floors tall.

  11. #71

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    Well let's see, the Rangers are currently at the TOP (!!!!!!!) of the NHL, and they've sold out every game i've been to. The line for tickets when they went on sale was about 4 blocks long and numbered in the high thousands ( I was inside with # 248 and I got there at 4AM) The point is the Garden isn't going anywhere until there is a better arena finished next to it.

    and BTW, for those of you that hate it you have no idea how good it is, it may not be pretty on the outside, but there's at most half a dozen better NHL/NBA arenas in the US. Try tearing down those useless dumps that are the Continental Airlines Arena and Nassau Colliseum first.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    Try tearing down those useless dumps that are the Continental Airlines Arena and Nassau Colliseum first.
    They already broke ground on the Newark Arena.

  13. #73

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    I know, can't wait until the Devils move, while Continental Airlines Arena has better lines of sight it's not even close to the Garden in any other aspect. I also know why the Devils are moving, I went to a game a week ago and the closest person to me was sitting 8 rows away and in a separate section.

  14. #74
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    Crain's

    Time running out for new Garden deal

    Developers would expand station, add hotel, office tower


    By Anne Michaud
    Published on January 16, 2006


    Negotiations are intensifying over the construction of a spacious new Madison Square Garden in a renovated James A. Farley Post Office as a mid-February deadline looms.

    The Related Cos. and Vornado Realty Trust are in talks to build a new Garden a block west, to the Ninth Avenue side of the Farley building, as part of their $556 million project turning the midtown property into the Moynihan Station transit hub.

    The parameters of the deal are in flux. One scenario being discussed has Garden owner Cablevision Systems Corp. relinquishing air rights for the current facility. Related and Vornado would demolish it and revive the glory days when the original Penn Station was an architectural marvel and city gateway. The Garden sits atop the station, which since 1963 has been a warren of dark tunnels and fast-food shops.

    The developers would install glass canopies over Penn Station and build towers for a convention hotel, offices, stores and apartments, say sources familiar with the negotiations between the companies and Cablevision.

    Time is running out for a deal, though. After years of delay, Vornado and Related, bidding jointly, won the right in July to develop the post office. As envisioned then, the project--named in honor of the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan--would expand Penn Station across Eighth Avenue, connect an array of subway and commuter lines, and create 700,000 square feet of space for retail, office and residential use. If, however, the developers and Cablevision can come to an agreement, a new Madison Square Garden would replace that mixed-use component.

    The developers need a resolution one way or another within a month so that they can proceed with designing and cost analysis. They must guarantee a maximum construction cost by June, when New York state officials will close on the $230 million purchase of the post office from the federal government.

    By moving Madison Square Garden, Cablevision executives Charles and James Dolan could replace the cramped, dated venue with wider concourses, stores and restaurants. Lucrative new luxury boxes would also offer better sight lines to Rangers and Knicks fans.


    Grand new Garden


    New York could emerge with a more beautiful train station in place of the Garden--grander even than the originally envisioned Moynihan Station. "It would be a fabulous improvement," says a government official familiar with the talks.

    A Cablevision spokesman says that the company is considering all options.

    The relocation plan could falter on economics. Cablevision now enjoys a city property tax break that amounts to more than $10 million a year. The Koch administration made the concession to keep the arena's business in the city. The Garden would lose that benefit in a new location, and government officials estimate that property taxes at the proposed site could total $75 million a year.

    The Dolans have approached state officials about retaining the break. But Charles Gargano, chairman of the Empire State Development Corp., says New York state is unwilling to intervene in what is essentially a negotiation with city officials.

    Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff says the Dolans have not spoken to him. Cablevision spent more than $30 million to defeat Mr. Doctoroff's dream of a West Side stadium to host the 2012 Olympic games, and the relationship is a bitter one.

    "We've had no conversations with them at all," Mr. Doctoroff says. "You can be sure we will do the right thing for the city's financial health."

    Comments? AMichaud@crain.com

  15. #75

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    would thay take down 2 penn plaza?

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