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Thread: New York City's Population Growth

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc
    If the definition of an Asian is ethnic rather than geographic, then what is the connection between a Lebanese and a Korean? Or a Japanese person and an Iranian?
    Blah, I didn't come up with the criteria, the Census Bureau did. Strangely enough, though, I'm not even certain if they have a little box for you to check if you're Middle Eastern as opposed to Far Eastern. In fact, I've heard of many Arabs, Iranians and Turks counting themselves as "white."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    well I'll tell you, I lived here all my life and I'm planning to move out as well. Right now the only thing that's keeping me here is my job and my firm is working to establish offices in Toronto and Vancouver in the next 2 years, which is where I'll be heading.

    I'll tell you why I'm moving out. I grew up in Bay Ridge and love NY like anything but in the past 5 years everything has gone to hell. Even in the 90s with high crime rates and vandalism I could always go back to my nice little Irish-Italian Bay Ridge and find some peace. Now Bay Ridge is (and I'm absolutely racist in my statements) a ghetto. It is an Islamic ghetto. My friends left, my beloved businesses were replaced by Halal meat and every community program that was worth a damn simply ceased to exist. I am of the America - love it or leave it mentality so the second you turn my American area into little Baghdad I'm not gonna like you.

    Sure some of you will think it's good that "people like me" are leaving but I'll tell you how it is. There are no good places to live in Brooklyn anymore. There are decent places but not good places. The only good areas left are some isolated areas in Manhattan ex. BPC, UES, UWS, and many suburbs.

    When I moved to my building there was a couch, a lamp, a doorman, and every service that a decent building has. We had our couch stolen, the doorman left, the lobby has broken mirrors and the mailboxes are busted open. Tragic yes, well shit, if this city can't take care of people like ME, and that is people who generate a whole lot of money and jobs for this city then maybe NY doesn't deserve me. I get taxed here like in no other place on Earth for things like investments while those are the very things our local government should reward. But noooo, they reward stupidity, inability to use birth control, laziness, and being "gangstas" who collect welfar that I'm paying for.

    Meanwhile me and my friends are dodging planes and attending funerals. If you ask me, I loved NY once, now this city doesn't welcome me, so I won't be staying.

    "Wall Street" is moving out, and trust someone who's an insider, we'd rather go somewhere else, other cities are falling head over heels to give brokers/investors/traders tax breaks and incentives, we drive growth, services are the only thing NY has left and the money business is the best business.

    Dark days are coming, keep blocking growth opportunities and someday soon they will run out. Jersey City will take over, al-Queda will run the NY port, and there just might not be enough Food Stamps to go around.
    Really?
    Boy, have I got news for you!

    The cities that you've mentioned, Vancouver and Toronto, are some of the most ethnically diverse places in the world. You don't like to be around too many non-white people? I suggest you go to Iceland, because just about every city worth anything in the US, Canada, and yes even Europe have large diverse, minority, non-Causasian populations. And they are getting more diverse by the minute!

    You seem to think that NY is the only place that are seeing immigration, but that is just a stereotype that you and other people like you who are ignorant of what's going on in the world bought into. EVERY major city and even non-major cities in the country are experiencing a changing demographic.
    Trust me, you need to do some traveling and see for yourself. After going to these other "cities" that are "falling head over heals" for you and Wall Street companies, you will find that NYC won't seem so bad after all.

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    Oh and btw, with regard to that dodging planes and going to funeral comment. Let me tell you something, it doesn't matter where Wall Street companies moves to, if anyone is intent on hurting you, they WILL find you. It won't matter if you go hide out in Iowa or the Yukon.

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    Not that Iowa doesn't have social problems, either. Huge crisis in Des Moines over crystal meth. Thankfully it's not as severe as in New York...not yet.

    In any case, Jake, I can't help but say I'm a little surprised at you.

  5. #35

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    There is a huge difference between diversity and ghetto-ization. Cultural diversity means I can eat Thai food if I want to. It means I can get Chinese spices if I want to. Living in a ghetto means I have no more choice, I live with cultures alien to my own because I am forced to.

    I find it odd that people come to America and spit on my flag while waving an Iraqi one in their window. Diversity is good IF you do become assimilated, immigration is NOT about transplanting Fallujah into Bay Ridge. Unlike old immigrants who came to America with hopes of community and welfare for their children this new wave seems to want to take my head off and crucify me for this country's foreign policy.

    And I have traveled a lot and ok, Vancouver has a huge Chinatown, so I won't move to Chinatown, but I still have 90% of the city left as choice. I don't know if immigrants are criminals I certainly hope not but if they carry crime and a decrease in quality with them then I certainly don't want them. Are there any upscale minority neighborehoods? I quite honestly don't give a shit about what religion or skin color my neighbors are, as long as they dress western and don't blast native music at 11 PM. I don't think this country was intended as a United Nations, a trade crossroads perhaps, but not at the cost of displacing the very people who work hardest and cheerish this place.

    "I am Sikh and an American" should be "I am American and a Sikh"

    I'm not going to live in a 'hood, it took less than 5 years to completely eat up my safe and quiet area, don't know how long it will take them to eat up another one. When Washington Heights and East NY become nice family areas I'll take back everything I said. To me it's very simple, if you fear to let your child play baseball in a park 2 blocks away then you are not living in a good place.

    BTW, lol, some asshole stole the license plates of my BMW a few weeks ago, tell me honestly, who the **** does something like that?

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    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Another White person who finds diversity to be very threatening. Yeah go follow your friends on the quest for a White utopia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    There is a huge difference between diversity and ghetto-ization. Cultural diversity means I can eat Thai food if I want to. It means I can get Chinese spices if I want to. Living in a ghetto means I have no more choice, I live with cultures alien to my own because I am forced to.
    Oh, I get it now. So non-causasian people should only exist to provide you with food and spices and anything else you might need? And when it's time to close up shop, they should just head back to "their" part of town because if they were to stay and live in the neighborhood, they would only ghetto-ize it. Did I get that right? You stated that you're racist, but don't even you think that sounds quite absurd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I find it odd that people come to America and spit on my flag while waving an Iraqi one in their window. Diversity is good IF you do become assimilated, immigration is NOT about transplanting Fallujah into Bay Ridge.
    In case you're not aware, Islamic fundamentalism and fervor and their clashes with other religions and cultures is an issue the whole world is dealing with right now. This is not an issue unique to this city.

    Unlike old immigrants who came to America with hopes of community and welfare for their children this new wave seems to want to take my head off and crucify me for this country's foreign policy
    That's the same exact sentiment expressed by the early Anglo-German city residents when the large influx of poor Irish and Italian immigrants started coming over last century. Do you remember the "Irish need not apply" stuff from your history books? Ironic don't you think, considering that you are now so fond of that very Irish-Italian culture the whites back then were so dreading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    And I have traveled a lot and ok, Vancouver has a huge Chinatown, so I won't move to Chinatown, but I still have 90% of the city left as choice.
    We all know Vancouver will always forever stay pristine and white, right? Especially since the Canadian government is even more open to immigration than the US. I guess the new immigrants won't bother with Vancouver since Jake will be there. And might I ask, where will you go then, if the "ghetto-making" immigrants start to descend onto Vancouver? Will the Wall Street companies then follow you around the globe looking for that ever-shrinking all-white world, wherever it might be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I don't know if immigrants are criminals I certainly hope not but if they carry crime and a decrease in quality with them then I certainly don't want them. Are there any upscale minority neighborehoods? I quite honestly don't give a shit about what religion or skin color my neighbors are, as long as they dress western and don't blast native music at 11 PM. I don't think this country was intended as a United Nations, a trade crossroads perhaps, but not at the cost of displacing the very people who work hardest and cheerish this place.

    "I am Sikh and an American" should be "I am American and a Sikh"

    I'm not going to live in a 'hood, it took less than 5 years to completely eat up my safe and quiet area, don't know how long it will take them to eat up another one. When Washington Heights and East NY become nice family areas I'll take back everything I said. To me it's very simple, if you fear to let your child play baseball in a park 2 blocks away then you are not living in a good place.

    BTW, lol, some asshole stole the license plates of my BMW a few weeks ago, tell me honestly, who the **** does something like that?
    You're just rambling and your thoughts are all over the place here.

  8. #38

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    I'm genuinely sorry to hear how badly Jake is taking it all. I think that even if we disagree with his take on things we should respect the fact that change in one's 'old neighborhood' can be unsettling.

    I would guess.think that many of the folks that are now getting on your nerves, Jake, will be apple-pie "merkuns" before you know it. Just like Chiantown has taken over Little Italy, little Baghdad has taken over your Italian-Irish neighborhood: that's very NY, ain't it?

    Strange as that seems NOW, lots of folks were less than enthusiastic when us Ities (GASP! I KNOW it's HARD to BELIEVE) showed up, never mind the Eastern European Jews. Now they are seen as backbone communities in NYC. There was even some perjudice against Germans and the Oirish, which are numerically the largest 'ethnic' origin in the US. (Hmm, maybe the Native Sons were right...they DID take the place over!!)

    I don't think there is anything evil about you wanting to hang around people more like you; Not my cup of tea, homogenity but I can see where you're comign from and, I might add, I've never been in your situation (of being a 'minority') so I won't judge.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLOZ Link5
    Blah, I didn't come up with the criteria, the Census Bureau did. Strangely enough, though, I'm not even certain if they have a little box for you to check if you're Middle Eastern as opposed to Far Eastern. In fact, I've heard of many Arabs, Iranians and Turks counting themselves as "white."
    Seems to me the category "Asian" has little relevance to actually classifying people in a way that agrees with most folks' perceptions, though I can appreciate the difficulty of coming up with categories that people will apply to themselves. Until someone does that, Arabs, Iranians and Turks counting themselves as white seems more realistic than expecting them to say they're Asian, which most folks associate with people from China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. Folks from the Subcontinent of India are yet another potential category. And what about Central Asians?

  10. #40
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    It is hard to say "asian", but I believe they are talking about Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, Vietnamese, and Phillipeno (sp). Anyone with the characteristic "slanted eyes".

    My Fiancee's family is all Chinese/Vietnamese, and I see and hear some of the things that are coming down the pike. They are under pressure from their families to bring over and house whoever they can from the home country. Uncles, Aunts, and all the children and for a damn good reason too.

    They still have a better chance here, within the span of one generation, of making a better life for themselves and their children and all that can make the leap usually do so at whatever expense they can.


    Now this does not mean that I like, condone, or want 15 people living in a small 2 bedroom in Queens, but I can see where they will do it, and sacrifice their own comfort to try to make things better for themselves and their families.

    The hard part comes when these people do not mix with the people in teh neighborhood, but come in in such large numbers that they LITERALLY shove every other race, creed, and nationality out of a neighborhood.

    There is SOME mingling, but not much, and the Asian population is not the only one guilty of this, and none are 100% responsible for the isolation. I see the same thing driving through my hometown in the NJ suburbs. Groups of Korean kids walking to the shopping mall on a Saturday, not a Gwai-lo among them. Nice kids, intelligent, clean cut, but just not mixing.


    So I don't know. Jake, I can feel your pain, but did you ever think that part of the problem was that your Irish-Italian neighbors did not welcome these people into their LIVES as well as their neighborhood? It takes an effort on both sides to keep a neighborhood integrated, or all that happens is people get pushed out when the new wave comes in.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    I'm genuinely sorry to hear how badly Jake is taking it all. I think that even if we disagree with his take on things we should respect the fact that change in one's 'old neighborhood' can be unsettling.

    I would guess.think that many of the folks that are now getting on your nerves, Jake, will be apple-pie "merkuns" before you know it. Just like Chiantown has taken over Little Italy, little Baghdad has taken over your Italian-Irish neighborhood: that's very NY, ain't it?

    Strange as that seems NOW, lots of folks were less than enthusiastic when us Ities (GASP! I KNOW it's HARD to BELIEVE) showed up, never mind the Eastern European Jews. Now they are seen as backbone communities in NYC. There was even some perjudice against Germans and the Oirish, which are numerically the largest 'ethnic' origin in the US. (Hmm, maybe the Native Sons were right...they DID take the place over!!)

    I don't think there is anything evil about you wanting to hang around people more like you; Not my cup of tea, homogenity but I can see where you're comign from and, I might add, I've never been in your situation (of being a 'minority') so I won't judge.

    I kind of agree with your position on this, but i also see another thing.

    People usually want to have their comfort zone. Some do not mind having the Asian Market, so long as they do not have 15 channels of Korean Kareoke on their cable TV subscription.

    But there are hard parts on both sides. The US has never been a true melting pot, but rather a big bottle of Italian Dressing that gets shaken a lot. Eventually some of the oli goes and settles in Pennsylvania, while some of the vinegar goes to southern NJ. But then you add othe ingredients that will flavor, but never truly mix with one another.


    Humans are pack animals. They feel comfortable with what they know and who they know.

    I am a whitey (big surprise) that feels fine in just about any mix, but I have to admit that when I am the absolute minority (and not just a slight numerical difference, I am talking about the only white guy at an Asian family function, etc etc) I get a little uncomfortable. It is partially because of the way I get looked at, especially by the kids that have never seen a round-eye before (I am like some weird animal, as well as a stranger, so it is heart breaking to see the kids looking at me like that sometimes...).

    But my like of a mix, and discomfort with being the odd man out, is sadly more tolerance than most people show at all! My fiancee's friends are 90% asian, so are her family members friends, and all of her families. They all live in neighborhoods of large, if not dominating asian populations. They do not EXCLUDE caucasians, blacks, hispanics, europeans, or any other group, but there is very little mixing.

    If I had not been to college, I don't think I would have had much of a mix either. Just take a look around and see if you can find more than a handfull of schools and neighborhoods that are not dominated by one culture or another.


    It is good to have diversity, I just hate to see one supplanted by another rather than integrated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    Are there any upscale minority neighborehoods? I quite honestly don't give a shit about what religion or skin color my neighbors are, as long as they dress western and don't blast native music at 11 PM. I don't think this country was intended as a United Nations, a trade crossroads perhaps, but not at the cost of displacing the very people who work hardest and cheerish this place.
    First of all, there are some very upscale immigrant neighborhoods. have you visited Manhattan Beach? It's as upscale as you can get and mostly russian. There are more and more upscale asian neighborhoods - there was a good article about it in yesterday's New York Times about a wealthy asian neighborhood in Long Island. Asians actually do better on SAT and other tests and the Columbia University College of Engineering and Compuiter Science is predominantly asian nowadays. I would think some of these people won't necesserily dress western, but probably have higher education than most whites living in Bay Ridge. Ghettoes are terrible and places like East Harlem and Easy New York are good examples of those. I think better education and the culture of learning that so many asian communities have would help to advance those troubled areas where most people are afraid to walk, let alone live.

  13. #43

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    Obviously it's a topic too broad to discuss. That's why people belong to things like liberal or conservative political parties. I am conservative because things IMO used to be better.

    First of all probably everyoneone is naturally racist, do you think these foreigners welcome white people? That's the case in every place in the world. I was comfortable in pre-9/11 NY and since my city has been raped. I used to live near the best schools in teh city, they are now crap. There are about 4 multiple-felony rapists living between me and the nearest elementary school, should I ever have to send a child there. Maybe some can tolerate that for the sake of diversity but I'm planning on moving out, settling in a nice gated community and not having to deal with all this.

    So I come across as some raving lunatic, and it's true this is just an internet post so I don't really read over and analyze it for an hour but don't think I'm alone. If there is such a thing as "american" culture it is being erased for the sake of diversity. Nobody will talk about this because they get instantly labeled a racist. White people can't say they like white people because "don't you want diversity?" Guess what, I'm white and my parents were white and I grew up in a white house to a white culture .

    I personally feel like a good majority of these people come here to breed 6 children, get them US citizenship, collect welfare, and exploit this country for their own benefit, just MHO. The current system of the immigration lottery is downright retarded, I'd rather give all Mexicans greencards. There are millions of immigrants and minorities in high political positions or in other respected areas of America, but they don't come to work in their national clothes or speak Farsi, do they? The bottom line is that they are coming into MY culture, not me into theirs, and that's how it's looking now.

    In NYC my opinion may be "saddening" to some of you, but I don't belong to any millitant movements or wear a white hood on sundays. NYC is an odd city, if you travel to America, you might see why Bush is president and why most Americans are just about fed up with this culture invasion on our homes.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I was comfortable in pre-9/11 NY and since my city has been raped.
    So this spiral to oblivion all happened in five years?

    The more you post, the worse your image.

  15. #45
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    ^ Even if some of these new immigrants don't have upscale places... they sure have great food. You will be surpice of how cheap and tasty their food can be.

    I also recomend checking out the Colombian restaurants. They are some of the best in Queens. Go check them out. They are betwwen 74th and 90th on Roosevelt Boulevard... also on the blocks of the 80ths and 90ths in Northern boulevard... you will find the trully best ones. Also check out the bakeries. Delicious.

    It is just when this people become really american, they will loose that cultural diversity (which makes them special... In my opinion). Not to worry they are all heading there, once they stay here for too long and their children are heading in that direction of becoming more Americans than their parents and so on. That is the way it happens and has been happening for hundred of decades.

    For example, the Puerto Ricans. Even though, Puerto Rico is part of the USA, their culture is more related to that of a South American culture. Now if you compare the Puerto Ricans in NYC with the Latinos in South America or the Puerto Ricans in the island, they tend to be more like americans. Most of them speak English and prefer more of the American food, American products, American entertainment, etc.
    Last edited by krulltime; February 22nd, 2006 at 11:00 AM.

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