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Thread: New York City's Population Growth

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    I will concede one point to Jake's otherwise increasingly intolerant stance: I think the US DID work as a melting pot until fairly recently.
    Like when all the immigrants were European? Like I said, there has always been xenophobia, and I'm not convinced there is any more now. It's just a lot harder to distinguish from racism.

  2. #62

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    Can anyone offer any observations about the environment of Bay Ridge?

    My present experience is limited, but I've had contact with the area since high school - I knew people from both Ft Hamilton and Catholic Xaverian high schools. Several of my co-workers live in Bay Ridge, three of them having grown up there. We occasionally meet in one of the neighborhood bars - like Salty Dog on 3rd Ave and 76th St. None of them have ever mentioned any problems in the neighborhood, but the topic never comes up. One did say once that he could not believe how much his little house was worth.

    Parts of Bay Ridge have been very upscale as long as I can remember, and to my eye, that has not changed. What has changed somewhat is ethnicity, but when I was young, Bay Ridge was pure white. There was racial friction with Hispanic Sunset Park at the natural break in the ridge line along 65th St. Both neighborhoods have experienced an influx of Asian people (thats the entire continent). I've noticed a concentration of Indian families near Bay Ridge Parkway.

    Two fine commercial streets, 3rd and 5th Aves, run through the neighborhood. In my opinion, 5th Ave is one of the best urban shopping streets in Brooklyn.

    Two years ago, I did a photo walk-through of the entire neighborhood.
    http://www.pbase.com/zippythechimp/bay_ridge&page=1

    I can't believe it has changed that much in such a short time.

  3. #63

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    I went to Bay Ridge this past summer, and while I would admit that I did see a large Muslim population, I also saw a thriving neighborhood, with many upscale parts. I would say that the area has improved...

    Bay Ridge still remains one of the most desirable places to live in Brooklyn

    Keep in mind.. as a young black american, I would like to remind the forum that intergration is a goodthing. The reason why many of these neighborhoods were predominatly white for so long was because, whites constituted most of the middle class. Now diversifying middle class, whites will have to get used to living with more diversity, as middle class neighborhoods are no longer only white.

  4. #64
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Looking at ZippyTheChimp photos... I have to say that Bay Ridge looks fantastic. Why would someone want to leave such a prescious historical place like that is out of my head.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime
    Just don't ask me what it was
    Just don't ask me what it was
    Just don't ask me what it was
    Double

  6. #66
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    He likes the neighborhood, just not the newcomers. Now, if the newcomers were named Patrick or Vinny instead of Ahmed or Mohammed then everything would be fine.

    Seriously Jake, maybe it's just your building. Have you considered this place or this one? LOL, the last one even has an American flag, so there should be no mistaking it for Fallujah.
    Last edited by antinimby; February 22nd, 2006 at 05:15 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    There is a huge difference between diversity and ghetto-ization. Cultural diversity means I can eat Thai food if I want to. It means I can get Chinese spices if I want to. Living in a ghetto means I have no more choice, I live with cultures alien to my own because I am forced to.
    Oh, so cultural diversity is when white people can live a comfortable distance away from the immigrants enjoy the benefits of their food and culture, but ghettoization is when they're too close for comfort?

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    So this spiral to oblivion all happened in five years?

    The more you post, the worse your image.
    It absolutely did, since 2000 everything has gone to hell.

    Let's have true diversity, how about a Nazy neighborehood? What? Why would you have a problem with that? It's diversity man! How about a communist neighborehood? How about a Native American reservation?

    Ok, whatever, I like to live with peaceful, patriotic, sophisticated families. I don't particularly like any foreign food that much so FOOD isn't gonna be the thing keeping me here. I'd never let a kid grow up in Bay Ridge. Go for a stroll in Bay Ridge, and go for a stroll in BPC, in 2000 there was no difference, right now there's a world of difference. I'll be spending my remaining time in NYC in Manhattan, my neighborehood is IMO beyond salvage. My image is ruined, boo hoo :-) I've never taken a penny of gov't aid in my life and contribute probably about 10 times as much in taxes as my neighbors. I am not the person driving this city into fiscal ruin.

    The current projections show continued declining white population in NYC. Apparently I'm not the only one.

    And Zippy, I absolutely appreciate the debate, even with name calling and everything these arguments are necessary, but you live in BPC, do you not? I feel your perception of the severity of the situation may not exactly match a resident of an area like mine.

  9. #69
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I've never taken a penny of gov't aid in my life ...
    but chances are, if you're working for one of the big financial big boys as you've indicated, that you've benefitted very greatly from "gov't aid" in the form of tax incentives, etc.

    not that there is anything wrong with that. we pay in -- we should benefit.

    but let's not fool ourselves too much ...

  10. #70

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    Didn't read some posts so I'm writing another response. Zippy nice photos, including the building where I grew up :-). The problem unfortunately does not lie in architecture, and indeed there are sizabel pockets of BR which are still top-notch. The probelm lies with the area as a whole, sure Shore Road has multi million dollar houses and is beautiful and safe but as soon as you go shopping you have to to the area which are sub-par. The good businesses in Bay Ridge are the ones that have been here for decades and many are leaving. I don't mean big business but things like Mike's this and Ted's that, local shops that make up this COMMUNITY are gone, people left, people just don't like it anymore.

    I simply don't like Mike's pizza being replaced by Halal Meat nad the neighborehood being filled with signs in foreign languages. This is a simple concept IMO, this land was my land and my community, now it's all foreign looking, be it inevitable change or whatever, I DON't LIKE IT.

    and BTW, dressing Western means you don't go to work wearing sandals and a turban. Sometimes I really think people don't realize that the real world isn't so forgiving. In business, with the people I deal with things aren't this simple. You simply won't be dealt with unless you look presentable. Go for a job interview in a turban, you won't be hired, and you can cry discrimination all you want, but it was easier to take the turban off or start your own business.

    It should not be expected that people here need to adjust to a foreigner's customs, it is a foreigner's job to adjust to ours.

    If someone lives here that means that this country took them in on good faith, they have NO RIGHT to bitch, wine or even raise a finger against us. If they want to do that they can do it from their own country, if it was so perfect.

    My family came here too, and they were discriminated against. They sucked up up and moved on, created their own opportunities, became community members, did volunteer work in neighborehood gardens. When I see the Bay Ridge community come back to the glory days of less than a decade ago, I'll act differently.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    but chances are, if you're working for one of the big financial big boys as you've indicated, that you've benefitted very greatly from "gov't aid" in the form of tax incentives, etc.

    not that there is anything wrong with that. we pay in -- we should benefit.

    but let's not fool ourselves too much ...
    That's partly true, I mean I benefitted from cops and firemen too but come on, do you know what the tax is on people who work in finance? We go into the highest tax brackets even when we don't make much, we pay the highest tax on investments, things that are really our jobs. And I yet I don't qualify for any gov't programs, I didn't qualify for FA in college, I don't qualify for health insurance, I don't get any tax breaks. THat's another topic entirely but as someone who contributes a lot, I feel that's a little unfair.

  12. #72

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    Ok let's do some cool CURRENT EVENTS, please when banning me from this site allow me access to the skyscraper forum, I don't usually stir up the hornet's nest in political therads

    Mohammed Junaid Babar is in the Manhattan Detention Center (April 2004) for a 2004 London Bombing Plot, Babar is directly linked to the July 7th 2005 London Subway Bombers, Babar met with Al-Qaeda terrorist organizer Adnan El Shukrijumah on March 2004 and others in Pakistan regarding a bomb plot in the US.
    Mohammed Junaid Babar admits in a November 2001 interview with the Boston Globe, in Pakistan, to be a member of Al-Muhajiroun (AKA Islamic Thinkers Society) and an Islamic organizer in Bay Ridge and Jamaica Queens (operational areas of the Islamic Thinkers Society)
    He described what he said was his education at a New York college and his work as an Islamic organizer in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, and Jamaica, Queens.

    "I'm not a New Yorker," he said. "I'm a Muslim."

    "If Mullah Omar calls," he said, "I'm ready."

    This story ran on page A12 of the Boston Globe on 11/6/2001.

    The phone numbers used by the Islamic Thinkers Society above is traced to a Sheik Mohammed Osman and the Islamic Society of Bay Ridge phone in Brooklyn NY.

    Islamic Society of Bay Ridge -- Sheik Mohammed Osman
    6807 5th Ave. Brooklyn NY
    718 680 0121



    Cool, isn't it?

  13. #73
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    So do you have a reason for posting the phone number and address of the muslim society?

  14. #74

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    Actually it was part of the article. Ask the Boston Globe.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I simply don't like Mike's pizza being replaced by Halal Meat nad the neighborehood being filled with signs in foreign languages. This is a simple concept IMO, this land was my land and my community, now it's all foreign looking, be it inevitable change or whatever, I DON't LIKE IT.
    Okay, let me explain this to you in simple terms so you'll understand. Halal Meat did not kick Mike's Pizza out. Mike's Pizza decided to leave and Halal meat then moved in. Get it? Just be glad Halal Meat came in and replaced Mike's Pizza because if they didn't, Bay Ridge would be abandoned like the South Bronx in 70's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    and BTW, dressing Western means you don't go to work wearing sandals and a turban. Sometimes I really think people don't realize that the real world isn't so forgiving. In business, with the people I deal with things aren't this simple. You simply won't be dealt with unless you look presentable. Go for a job interview in a turban, you won't be hired, and you can cry discrimination all you want, but it was easier to take the turban off or start your own business.
    Are you for real?? People will dress whatever is appropriate for the occasion they're in. The people you see in sandals are probably going to the corner store or dropping off their laundry, should they put on an Armani suit just for that? I have never seen anyone, let alone an Arab, wear sandals to work in an office in Manhattan. BTW, Arabs don't wear turbans, Indian Sikhs do and they are not Muslim.

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