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Thread: New York City's Population Growth

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCMAN320
    Where I haven't seen it. lol. Census estimates are so flawed any way.
    Indeed. Many municipalities contest them year after year.

  2. #107

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    April 3, 2006
    New York City Losing Blacks, Census Shows
    By SAM ROBERTS

    An accelerating exodus of American-born blacks, coupled with slight declines in birthrates and a slowing influx of Caribbean and African immigrants, have produced a decline in New York City's black population for the first time since the draft riots during the Civil War, according to preliminary census estimates.

    An analysis of the latest figures, which show the city with 30,000 fewer black residents in 2004 than in 2000, also revealed stark contrasts in the migration patterns of blacks and whites.

    While white New Yorkers are still more likely than blacks to leave the city, they are also more likely to relocate to the nearby suburbs (which is where half the whites move) or elsewhere in the Northeast, or to scatter to other cities and retirement communities across the country. Moreover, New York remains a magnet for whites from most other states.

    In contrast, 7 in 10 black people who are moving leave the region altogether. And, unlike black migrants from Chicago, Philadelphia and Detroit, most of them go to the South, especially to Florida, the Carolinas and Georgia. The rest move to states like California, Ohio, Illinois and Michigan with large black populations.

    Also, New York has a net loss of blacks to all but five states, and those net gains are minuscule.

    "This suggests that the black movement out of New York City is much more of an evacuation than the movement for whites," said William Frey, a demographer for the Brookings Institution, who analyzed migration patterns for The New York Times.

    The implications for a city of 8.2 million people could be profound. If the trend continues, not only will the black share of New York's population, which dipped below 25 percent in 2000, continue to decline, particularly if the overall population grows, but a higher proportion of black New Yorkers will be foreign-born or the children of immigrants.

    Many blacks are leaving for economic reasons. Jacqueline Dowdell moved to North Carolina last year from Hamilton Heights in Upper Manhattan in search of a lower cost of living. Once an editor at the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture in Harlem, she now works as a communications coordinator for a health care company in Chapel Hill.

    "It was a difficult decision, but it was a financial decision," said Ms. Dowdell, 39, adding that the move also gave her time to research her family's roots in Virginia.

    "I just continued to spend so much money trying to live without thinking about the future," she said. "I was focused on surviving, and I wanted to make a commitment to more quality of life."

    The analysis of migration from 1995 to 2000 also suggests that many blacks, already struggling with high housing costs in New York City, are being priced out of nearby suburbs, too.

    Among black married couples with children, only about one in three who left the city moved to nearby suburbs, compared with two in three white married couples with children. More black married couples with children moved to the South than to the suburbs.

    Over all, more black residents who left New York City moved to Florida than to New Jersey.

    But black residents who left the city were more likely to remain in the region if they had higher incomes and were college educated. And while black migrants to the South include some aspiring professionals, a larger share were lower income, less educated and elderly.

    "All this suggests that New York City out-migration of blacks is unique in its scope — net losses to most states — and pattern — especially destined to the South," Dr. Frey said.

    Reversing a tide from the South who altered the complexion of the city earlier in the 20th century, the number of American-born blacks leaving the city has exceeded the number arriving since at least the late 1970's.

    "You have older people who leave the North just to go back to a place that is kind of slower, or where they grew up or went on vacation when they were younger — and when you retire, your money doesn't go very far in New York," said Sylviane A. Diouf, a historian and researcher at the Schomburg Center and co-author of a study of black migration. "You also have young college-educated people who find that the South has lots of economic potential and a lower cost of living."

    The slower pace appealed to Gladys Favours, who worked for a city councilwoman from Brooklyn and moved from East New York seven years ago to a town of fewer than 1,000 people near Charlotte, N.C, after she was unable to find another job.

    "I lived in New York for almost 50 years and loved what it offered in schools, entertainment and convenience, but I lost my job and finding one at my age would pay half of what I was making," she said. "I was divorced and moved here with my 11-year-old — I was afraid of the crime, and black boys don't fare too well in New York."

    Her son is now in college and she is working for the county emergency services department.

    "I'm 60 now," she said. "I think I was ready for the quietness."

    While residential segregation persists, racial and ethnic minorities, including immigrants, have become more mobile, with lower-skilled workers lured to growing cities in the South and West for construction, retail and service jobs and professionals applying for the same opportunities that had been previously open mainly to whites.

    "Some foreign-born blacks are moving out, too — to the suburbs as well as to other parts of the country, particularly South Florida," said Nancy Foner, a distinguished professor of sociology at Hunter College.

    Andrew Hacker, a political scientist at Queens College, cited other factors. "After 15 or 20 years with, say the Postal Service or U.P.S., employees can put in for transfers to other parts of the country," he said. "As a result, more than a few middle-class black New Yorkers have been moving back to states like North Carolina and Georgia, where they have family ties, living costs are lower, neighborhoods are safer, schools are often better and life is less hectic."

    In 1997, Christine Wiggins retired as an assistant bank manager after 25 years. She left Queens Village and followed her brother, who worked for New York City Transit, to the Poconos.

    "It was hard for him, he had to commute," she said. "But we wanted to get away from the city."

    The East Stroudsburg, Pa., area, where radio advertisements lured first-time homebuyers, was among the 15 top destinations for black residents leaving New York City. More black New Yorkers moved to Monroe County in the Poconos than to either the Rockland or Orange County suburbs of New York.

    Over all, the city's black population grew by 115,000 in the 1990's, a 6.2 percent increase. (New Yorkers in the armed forces or who are institutionalized are not counted as residents.)

    Those early estimates of the 30,000 drop in black population since 2000, a 1.5 percent decline, suggest that among blacks, the arrival of newcomers from abroad and higher birthrates among immigrants were not keeping pace with the outflow.

    Last year, a study by the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research group, found that while the gush of immigrants continued into the 21st century, it appeared to have slowed somewhat.

    A net loss of black residents, even between censuses, would apparently be the first since the Civil War. In 1863, after mobs attacked blacks during the draft riots, many fled New York City. "By 1865," Leslie M. Harris wrote in "In the Shadow of Slavery," the city's "black population had plummeted to just under 10,000, its lowest since 1820."



    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
    Last edited by Kris; April 3rd, 2006 at 06:11 PM.

  3. #108

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    Not getting away from this subject but I didn't want to start another thread either. I was in a yahoo chat room a few months back and had a pretty good arguement going on and this guy tried to tell me that LA is bigger than NYC, which I told him he was wrong. After proving to him that I was right he said the links I posted had incorrect information on them and one was from the US Census website itself. NYC is safe as the largest city in the US I know this much.

  4. #109

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    ^ Maybe he thought the measure of a city's size is area. Measured that way, Anchorage is our biggest city.

  5. #110

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    I thought that was Jacksonville.

  6. #111
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    From wikipedia:

    Jacksonville: Geographically, it has the greatest land area of any city in the contiguous 48 states of the United States.


    Area
    Total: 2,264.5 km˛

    Land: 1962.4 km˛

    Water: 302.1 km˛
    Anchorage :


    Area
    Total: 1,961.1 mi˛ / 5,079.2 km˛

    Land: 1,697.2 mi˛ / 4,395.8 km˛

    Water: 2.63.9 mi˛ / 683.4 km˛

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY_Yankees_1979
    Not getting away from this subject but I didn't want to start another thread either. I was in a yahoo chat room a few months back and had a pretty good arguement going on and this guy tried to tell me that LA is bigger than NYC, which I told him he was wrong. After proving to him that I was right he said the links I posted had incorrect information on them and one was from the US Census website itself. NYC is safe as the largest city in the US I know this much.
    It depends on how you define LA. Sometimes, when people talk about the size of LA, they include the neighboring towns of San Fernando valley, Pasadena, Long Beach, etc. In terms of size, this LA metropolis is probably bigger than NYC's 5 boroughs.

  8. #113
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    From wikipedia:

    Los Angeles (City)


    Population
    Total (2004): 3,845,541
    Metro area: 12,925,330
    Density: 3,041.3/km˛
    Area
    Total: 498.3 mi˛ - 1,290.6 km˛
    Land: 469.1 mi˛ - 1,214.9 km˛
    Water: 29.2 mi˛ - 75.7 km˛
    Los Angeles County


    Population
    Total (2004): 10,179,716 (est)
    Density: 967.9/km˛
    Area
    Land: 10,517 km˛ (4,061 mi˛)
    New_York_City


    Population
    Total (2004): 8,168,338
    Metro area: 21,199,865
    Density: 27,228/mi˛ - 10,292/km˛
    Area
    Total: 468.9 mi˛ - 1,214.4 km˛
    Land: 303.3 mi˛ - 785.6 km˛
    Water: 165.6 mi˛ - 428.8 km˛

  9. #114

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    If you include Long Beach and Pasadena in counts of Los Angeles' population, why not the cities of northern New Jersey- many closer than parts of Brooklyn and Queens to Manhattan- in the count for New York?

    Ultimately, even the metropolitan population of New York is larger than that of LA.

  10. #115
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    Yes, NYC is a bigger city and metro area.

  11. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSpice
    It depends on how you define LA. Sometimes, when people talk about the size of LA, they include the neighboring towns of San Fernando valley, Pasadena, Long Beach, etc. In terms of size, this LA metropolis is probably bigger than NYC's 5 boroughs.
    Ok I can live with the fact that there are more people in metropolitan LA than the 5 boroughs. What I am getting at is the 5 boroughs is what makes up NYC and they are trying to add suburbs to LA's city population, which truely isn't fair considering that he wasn't allowing me to add the population of say southwestern Connecticut, Orange, Westchester, Rockland counties and even more in NY state as well as Long Island and the NYC suburbs that are in Jersey. Which I think does exceed the metropolitan population of LA as well. I did look it up and there are appox. 22 million people in the NYC metropolis compared to appox. 17 million in the LA metropolis. This is another thing I was getting at is NYC is bigger in both terms of city and metro population, the only thing LA has NYC beat on is area, which doesn't bother me considering several cities are bigger than NYC in area.

  12. #117
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    What possibly confuses the issue is the far greater size of LA COUNTY, which comprises the City of LA, various incorporated areas in & around the city and the suburbs that surround it (City of LA shown in RED):


  13. #118
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    I don't get it.

    LA (the city) is a smaller population than NYC. LA County is slightly larger, but the "Metro Area" as 2X bigger than LA county.

    And the denisties? Fuggetaboutit.

    Besides, does it really matter? LA sucks man!

  14. #119
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    Plus ... LA is a DESERT

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
    I don't get it.

    LA (the city) is a smaller population than NYC. LA County is slightly larger, but the "Metro Area" as 2X bigger than LA county.

    And the denisties? Fuggetaboutit.

    Besides, does it really matter? LA sucks man!
    I fail to understand why so many people say that LA sucks. I visited LA 6 times and I really like it as a place to live. I have a friend that lives in LA. He is a successful businessman so he lives in the mountains in Beverly Hills. I understand that most people don't live like that, but looking at how people live in, say, West L.A., it's so nice - the houses are beautiful (all creme-white with beautiful brown roofs), there are palm trees everywhere. Beaches are gorgeous - from Santa Monica to Manhattan and Hermosa beach. And the weather is just perfect. I visitied Pasadena many times which is very close to the LA itself. It's also a great town with wonderful restaurants, mountains, clean streets, etc. And the way people live there is certainly superior to how most New Yorkers live. I have another friend who recently bought a 2bd condo in Pasadena for 400K - it's a large complex with vegetation throughout and a pool for everyone to use. It's just gorgeous and you can see mountains from his window.

    So what sucks about L.A. in particular? I saw "LA sucks" comment so many times on this forum. Even though I love New York, I think LA is a better place to live. If not for my family, friends and work, I'd move there.

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