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Thread: 15 Central Park West - Upper West Side - Condo - by Robert A. M. Stern

  1. #61

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    And what pompous overblown garbage Stirling library- wait, make that everything at Yale- is. A horrifying attempt to blend the campus' otherwise slavish imitation of Oxbridge with the then-modernity of Art Deco. The result is a highly stunted version of a tower which would work only in the twisted imagination of, say, a morbid cinematographer plotting the architectural landscape of a grim, shadowy underworld.

    http://www.pbase.com/czsz/image/4118564

    By the way, I'm now living in a building designed by Robert Stern. I have so far yet to determine the distinction between his "architecture" and that of any conservatively-appointed corporate suburban conference centre.

  2. #62

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    The village-in-the sky thing can be seen all over Manhattan. Stern is most likely paying homage to Emery Roth and his Beverly Hotel ( a fine example) on Lexington and his Beresford Apartments on CPW.

    The West Side Y building (very near to 15 CPW) has what was designed to suggest a Tuscan hill town at the top. Very beautiful.

  3. #63
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    My main argument is the scale of the slab as it appears in the rendering --- the eye is forced to look up at it, just because of the overhwelming mass. Rather than drawn up through the use of architectural detail.

    And when your eye gets to the top: the faux-temple-on-top looks like it was stuck on there, rather than growing elegantly out of the building.

    The sheer wall of the slab would be greatly improved with some verticle articulation, as is done on CPW neighbors.

    Such as the San Remo:


  4. #64

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    Wouldn´t it be loverly....alas this is 2005 with it´s own economic realities and you are pointing out one of NYC´s residential masterpieces.

  5. #65

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    What helps relieve the mass is the courtyard (70 ft wide according to the website) between the two buildings. The stepped terraces are very CPW, and I like all that stuff on top of the tower. It brings to mind the mythical Manhattan, living in the canopy.

    Check out Celluloid Skyline on the website http://www.triplemint.com/triplemint...10/15_cpw.html

    The film Dead End is mentioned. I had seen it on TV when I was young, and it influenced my photographic view of Manhattan. The opening/closing scene is a pan in/out of a waterfront street near the Queensboro. The scene is a studio construction, the background towers a mural, the waterfront a stage set; but it captures the big-alongside-small Manhattan that is slowly disappearing. We don't build big anymore (just bulky), and lowrise gets replaced with uninspired crud.

    If the 15 CPW materials are well chosen and assembled, the result will be contextual minus tacky, and it will age well.

    I'd like to see a rendering from Broadway.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    I'd like to see a rendering from Broadway.
    Yeah, me too.

    In 2003 and 2004 we had a fairly active member named Ernest Burden III. At the time he did many of Stern's renderings. Back then they were watercolors, but Burden has switched to computer rendering, as has Stern. Maybe they're still doing business together.

    Ernest Burden, where are you?

    Zippy, why don't you send him an e-mail: another Wired New York scoop?
    Last edited by ablarc; October 13th, 2005 at 10:30 AM.

  7. #67
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
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    Courtyard rendering (posted by NYGuy on the SSP thread)


  8. #68
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    The film Dead End is mentioned. I had seen it on TV when I was young, and it influenced my photographic view of Manhattan. The opening/closing scene is a pan in/out of a waterfront street near the Queensboro.
    Dead End is a terrific movie. There is a production of the Sidney Kingsley play currently running in LA, complete with the East River !!

    http://www.taperahmanson.com/show.asp?id=304



    From the website:
    Against a brilliant New York skyline, a gathering of tenements and a magnificent luxury apartment building stand side by side along the East River overlooking the Queensboro Bridge. Today the area is Sutton Place. But in the early ‘30s it was home to the Dead End Kids, a group of scruffy teenage boys whose lives were the streets -- playing cards on the stoop, roasting potatoes in a can, and swimming in the river.

    Sidney Kingsley’s stirring drama, a popular hit on Broadway in 1935, returns triumphantly to the stage in this stunning production featuring 42 actors and one of the largest sets ever created for the Ahmanson, including an orchestra pit filled with 10,000 gallons of water to simulate New York's East River.



    If the 15 CPW materials are well chosen and assembled, the result will be contextual minus tacky, and it will age well.

    I'd like to see a rendering from Broadway.
    Odd that there are no available renderings of the full Broadway facade.

    Here's the street level view:


  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    Odd that there are no available renderings of the full Broadway facade.

    Here's the street level view:

    Yikes! There's the reason why.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc
    Yeah, me too.

    Ernest Burden, where are you?

    Zippy, why don't you send him an e-mail: another Wired New York scoop?
    On it.

    His website lists Robert Stern as a client. There is an emai link.

    That Broadway view shows the tower following the Broadway sightline in a saw-tooth fashion. So the tower will be trapezoidal? It would appear more massive from the north.

  11. #71

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    Ernest Burden: any relation to Amanda?

  12. #72

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    Broadway suffers from an unfortunate lack of definition in this area (I'm thinking of you, ugly monstrosity everyone has to confront when exiting the Met Opera), despite all the recent development. Another tower at a diagonal to the street will only exacerbate the trend. Ah well. If this is to be (and it pains me to think it) a new grandiose landmark of CPW on the order of the Beresford or Dakota, when will someone build a Broadway-oriented structure on the order of the Ansonia?

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by czsz
    Broadway suffers from an unfortunate lack of definition in this area (I'm thinking of you, ugly monstrosity everyone has to confront when exiting the Met Opera), despite all the recent development. Another tower at a diagonal to the street will only exacerbate the trend. Ah well. If this is to be (and it pains me to think it) a new grandiose landmark of CPW on the order of the Beresford or Dakota, when will someone build a Broadway-oriented structure on the order of the Ansonia?
    You're right, that Brodway face is this project's Achilles heel. To be fair, that's probably due to the developer's conviction that units facing Central Park would yield more return per square foot than units facing Broadway. The Broadway facade ought to have been at least ten or twelve stories.

    I suspect they used up their F.A.R. packing the building's volume up against the Park. If there were no F.A.R. provision, they might have added lower-priced units on Broadway too, to bulk up the building where it's needed for some reason besides raw economics and questionable regulations.

  14. #74

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    Although the east is the money side, I don't think the FAR was used up on CPW. The saw-tooth indicates that the tower is bulked up on the Broadway side to create views in different directions, maximizing saleability. It's too bad they didn't create a substantial building on Broadway; the rendering looks a lot like 8th Ave in the W40s and 50s.

    It may not be FAR at all. This a big lot, with a 200 x 70 ft courtyard (empty space). People on a lower floor would rather not face an environment like Broadway unless it is in a tower set back on a raised plaza.

    Fun with Zoning.

    If anyone wants to wade through the NYC zoning rules and figure out the allowable bulk:

    The lot is approximately 58,000 sq ft. Don't forget to factor in the courtyard, 14,000 sq ft.

    The site is a residential building in a C4-7 L commercial district.
    zoning map

    The applicable zoning resolution is
    Article III chapter 4

    I'm sure there are exceptions, and special cases to this resolution. There are also (human) density rules for residential buildings.

    Spend alittle time with this, and you'll understand why hardly anyone really knows how big a building can be.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Spend alittle time with this, and you'll understand why hardly anyone really knows how big a building can be.
    And really, does it matter? Would Manhattan be a worse place if a dozen residential Empire State Buildings materialized?

    Not in the Village or East Village, but elsewhere, meh.

    Where I live there's no FAR in the inner city, and nothing untoward has occurred. Builders are free to build to any size or density, but no one has chosen to build residential buildings of a Manhattan size. Office buildings are another matter.

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