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Thread: Military Draft 2005: Strong Possibility

  1. #31
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightRambler
    I wish I could have seen what he said so I could respond appropriately, but given the small bit you posted, I can probably guess what the rest was like.

    Freedom Tower: Do you equate dissent with supporting terrorism? Do you believe the people who control the government right now have your best interests at heart? Do you believe all their connections to defense corporations, oil companies, and the Saudi royal family signify nothing? I'm a little curious. Maybe you know something about them that I don't.
    MR, are you getting an idea of what he is like, or shall we continue to remove what little sheeps clothing he has left?

  2. #32

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    I can't imagine why anyone would want to risk their lives in this war.

    This goes beyond a Republican-Democrat feud: this has to do with a radical foreign policy designed not to fight terrorism, but to win votes. This war is far removed from korea, vietnam, and the first gulf, where there were tangible enemies and reasonable policies that did not abuse American power.

    Clearly the "tangible" link between Sadaam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden is deeply flawed. Even the intelligence used to fool the American people and other nations into supporting us has come to be bogus. If this were an honest mistake by cowboy Bush, intelligence which is not substantiated by other (numerous) sources is still never a reason to start a pre-emptive, essentially unilateral war. And that isnt the case: whether it was Bush, Cheney, or Condi, somebody lied for reasons which have yet to be presented.

    I heard something on NPR last night about this situation - it explained how Bush, who has never seen the complicated relationships which arise from the conditions of war, will always have a one-dimensional view on war (not that he doesnt have a one-dimensional view on everything) and thus will not have second thoughts about sending 400000 citizens into Iraq.

    It just seems to me, (especially with abu-ghraib) that fighting in Iraq is defending and even supporting the terrorists' cause.

  3. #33
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Ok Freedom Tower, I have read enough!!!

    You sound like those naive-minded individuals who love to vote for a president (bush) and be ally to a political party that year by year are becoming one of (if not) the worst political movement in the United State history.

    This whole 911 tragedy is an excuse to go to war with Iraq! Can you get that through your heads naive-minded individuals (Freedom Tower)?

    ofcourse not...Oh revenge! Please... :roll:

    Yeah I agree we have to go after Bin Laden and his terrorists followers. WITH the help of other countries that support us! Like most european countries and beyond.

    This war is not about terrorism...it is for the OIL 100%. Let me see...Bush and most of his friends are from Texas...his father was involve in the gulf war as well...was it Kuwait and its OIL? Yes. There wans't and still no connection of Iraq and Bin Laden. Now there seem to be some individuals who simpathize with Bin Laden who are in the way of Bush and Allies to take control of Iraq. But I wonder how that happened?

    The threat right now is not Iraq is North Korea. They do have some weapons of mass destruction. Not like Iraq. But wait there is no OIL in North Korea. Hmmm. :?

    Do you know what Bush saids all the time! GOD will help us. He is using Religion to get the support from the rest of the country. Don't you know most people in this country are religious! Of course he gets support. Where do you think most of the charity that most republicans give go to?
    CHURCHES!

    Not moderate churches of course...they are strugling financially. They go to Fundamentalists churches. And we said that the muslim religion is a fundamentalist church...yeah! but we have the same in this country and they are getting ground and growing with the help of alot of money of course and no taxes to pay.

    In return we get these churches to praise Bush and his republicans allies. Then you get all of this town people (most town people tend to be very religious) who join the Army and do so many emberrasing things for the USA (like the prison).

    Let me guess Freedom Tower. Are you religious(from a town)? Or are you from Texas? If not please don't call your self a New Yorker.

    By the way is a shame you use the name Freedom Tower. Maybe a true new yorker will had like to use that name instead.

    If there is a draft I will hide or if I go I won't fight. And I love this country. But not for an OIL war. The prices are high because they haven't get a control in Iraq yet.

    Please people do not vote for Bush! If you do you are making a big mistake. Seriously.

  4. #34
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Check this out! You might think is false theory or not...but give it a try and listen to the whole video. It takes some time. It is really interesting coming from another 'poit of view' or facts who knows!

    That doesn't mean I believe in this 'theory' but I keep an open mind though. But then again I dont believe everything this
    government and its media says neither. :|

    Let me warn you though...

    It is powerful stuff about who's fault was at 9/11. If you are a republican and a bush-liker or even a democrat or not a party affiliate that feels very strong about what the media has already told you of what really happen at 9/11 then I don't recommend this video to you. But if you are an open minded person then it is ok to see it.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
    How about this:

    You are an insulting, belittling, narrow minded, fanatic, conservative, intolerant individual that seems to like to insult people out of hand with things that anyone but you interpret as insults.

    If someone SOUNDS like a terrorist, you are accusing him of being one, or very similar. If someone SOUNDS like an idiot, the same is true.

    By being insulted and asking for Zip to remove that remark, you just inadvertantly confirmed the persons reason for being angry and zips reason for removing it.

    You are not very good at this, are you?
    No, I'm not good at this becuase unlike you I don't consider it a game. You may like to argue but I am just saying what I believe in. I don't practice "debate" as a sport, rather I debate people when i disagree with them, based on what i believe in. Now, what i believe is that you are worse at debating than i am. becuase if zippy is truly a fair moderator than your post is about to get deleted.

    You obviously have some form of a problem understanding this
    "If someone SOUNDS like a terrorist, you are accusing him of being one, or very similar. If someone SOUNDS like an idiot, the same is true."

    Rambler said the EXACT words i had heard terrorists say. I brought that point up. It is not something i narrow-mindedly came up with, nor is it a vast right wing conspiracy. It is a fact that bin laden and other terrorists say the things about us that rambler did. For some reason my bringing that to peoples attention not only resulted in its deletion but in your all-out personal attack on me, which i hope the moderators of the forum will cease, as they did so kindly for rambler.

    also, calling me intolerant is laughable. all i did was point out a true fact. i compared ramblers speech to that of a terrorists'. I am pointing out a real-life fact, which you obviously don't want to hear. Why are you so afraid of the truth? You have to attack me and jump down my throat for telling hte truth? besides, zippy deleted it, so whether it was offending or not is no longer a matter for you to worry about. But your obvious personal attacks on me aren't going to do anything but get you in trouble.

    I would also respond to the rest of what you said but I'm not even going to bother. Obviously you cannot have a civilized debate without trying to create a real crisis. whatever insulting things i may have said about rambler were inadvertantly insulting, or insulting in a way i did not realize at the time. they were since deleted. when i compared ramblers speech to that of a terrorist it was becuase it was the same!! but you know what, i did not mean it to be a huge insult. i can see how it may be, but it was not intended to insult, only to prove a point. however, you are not even debating the issues anymore. now you are just trying to create a problem here by INTENTIONALLY insulting me. my insults, if they were that, were unintentional, or at least their primary goal was not to insult. the only goal i can see in your last post was the goal of insulting me. Calling me a narrow minded fanatic conservative. I want to hear what zippy says about this one.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime
    Ok Freedom Tower, I have read enough!!!

    You sound like those naive-minded individuals who love to vote for a president (bush) and be ally to a political party that year by year are becoming one of (if not) the worst political movement in the United State history.

    This whole 911 tragedy is an excuse to go to war with Iraq! Can you get that through your heads naive-minded individuals (Freedom Tower)?

    ofcourse not...Oh revenge! Please... :roll:

    Yeah I agree we have to go after Bin Laden and his terrorists followers. WITH the help of other countries that support us! Like most european countries and beyond.

    This war is not about terrorism...it is for the OIL 100%. Let me see...Bush and most of his friends are from Texas...his father was involve in the gulf war as well...was it Kuwait and its OIL? Yes. There wans't and still no connection of Iraq and Bin Laden. Now there seem to be some individuals who simpathize with Bin Laden who are in the way of Bush and Allies to take control of Iraq. But I wonder how that happened?

    The threat right now is not Iraq is North Korea. They do have some weapons of mass destruction. Not like Iraq. But wait there is no OIL in North Korea. Hmmm. :?

    Do you know what Bush saids all the time! GOD will help us. He is using Religion to get the support from the rest of the country. Don't you know most people in this country are religious! Of course he gets support. Where do you think most of the charity that most republicans give go to?
    CHURCHES!

    Not moderate churches of course...they are strugling financially. They go to Fundamentalists churches. And we said that the muslim religion is a fundamentalist church...yeah! but we have the same in this country and they are getting ground and growing with the help of alot of money of course and no taxes to pay.

    In return we get these churches to praise Bush and his republicans allies. Then you get all of this town people (most town people tend to be very religious) who join the Army and do so many emberrasing things for the USA (like the prison).

    Let me guess Freedom Tower. Are you religious(from a town)? Or are you from Texas? If not please don't call your self a New Yorker.

    By the way is a shame you use the name Freedom Tower. Maybe a true new yorker will had like to use that name instead.

    If there is a draft I will hide or if I go I won't fight. And I love this country. But not for an OIL war. The prices are high because they haven't get a control in Iraq yet.

    Please people do not vote for Bush! If you do you are making a big mistake. Seriously.
    First of all i don't know why you think you have the authority to call me naive and narrow minded, or anyone who likes bush for that matter. Who gives you the final "know it all" say on this issue? you have declared me naive and narrow minded and all these other negative things because you disagree with me on political issues. So now you are right and everyone else is wrong? isn't that nearly the definition of narrow-minded?

    "The prices are high because they haven't get a control in Iraq yet."

    They took baghdad in something like a week. the oil fields have been under our control for over a year now. there are occasional attacks on the pipelines - which transport oil to nearby countries - but the oil infrastructure is secure and working. if it was for oil we'd have a ton of it right now. The fact is, the war wasn't for oil, the US hasn't taken a single barrel of it, it was all liberal propoganda.

    "If there is a draft I will hide or if I go I won't fight. And I love this country. But not for an OIL war."

    Again, I don't know what this thing is with you people, i am talking about a draft in general. they aren't going to draft people to go into iraq, which isnt an oil war, but for the sake of you shutting up we'll claim it is one. so lets say it is an oil war, there isn't going to be a draft for it. the draft, like ive said over and over, will only reappear if we are under major attack or assault. Would you hide then? You love this country so much would you hide for a justified war? What about afghanistan, wehre there is no doubt we are fighting terrorists. the people who murdered us. would you fight there? that is the real question, whenever you ask a liberal about the draft (by the way democrats want to re-introduce it, not republicans) he refers to iraq only and nothing else.

    "This war is not about terrorism...it is for the OIL 100%. Let me see...Bush and most of his friends are from Texas...his father was involve in the gulf war as well...was it Kuwait and its OIL? Yes. There wans't and still no connection of Iraq and Bin Laden. Now there seem to be some individuals who simpathize with Bin Laden who are in the way of Bush and Allies to take control of Iraq. But I wonder how that happened?"

    Wake up, the first gulf war was about saving kuwait from saddam. we didn't even care about bin laden back then. even when he attacked us in 1993, 1998, etc. your beloved clinton didn't want bin laden. Bin laden wasnt a target until 911, so just by saying he didnt have ties to iraq back then doesnt make the war unjustified. that war saved an untold number of kuwaiti civilians, and if that was for oil, why isnt kuwait a big gas pump for the united states? it obviously isnt because they are rich, and our gas is expensive. all these war for oil slogans are not only old but false.

    "The threat right now is not Iraq is North Korea. They do have some weapons of mass destruction. Not like Iraq. But wait there is no OIL in North Korea. Hmmm. :? "

    Norht korea already has nukes. if we were to invade them they would nuke the south. millions of people would die. that is why there is no war in north korea. i am narrow-minded? then why can you only think every war is about oil. there are other issues at hand... by invading iraq now we ensure that saddam stops building WMD and also never gets a nuke. so iraq wont be a threat like that again. north korea it may now be too late. to invade them now would cause nuclear war. but elect kerry, and maybe hell provide that for you.

    Also what is all this ranting and raving about churches and townspeople? Liberal democrats claim to be the main supporters of tolerance, respect, and equality for everyone. now you are being biased, and prejudiced against churches and people from towns. If someone were to insult a mosque you would call them a narrow-minded person, however insulting a church is ok. last time i checked it wasnt a christian group that blew up the twin towers. why are mosques better than churces?

    do you have something against texas? something against people from small towns? something against catholics or christians? you have something against people who join the army to risk their lives protecting your freedoms?

    I don't know if you all see this but krulltime not only insulted me, but he just singled out and insulted half the country - he insulted all the republicans, all the brave men and women who fight for our country, he insulted church-goers, he insulted people from small towns...
    Oh now i remember, if you aren't from NYC and if you arent a liberal then you are a worthless narrow minded individual :roll:

    btw, i purposely tried to not be offensive this time, despite your offensive and belittling, and rude tone to me and every other republican in the world. i am also going to report you to a moderator because after i was specifically warned not to be offensive you and ninjahedge come and verbally assault and personally attack me.

  7. #37
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    no I did not personally attack you...it is my opinion on Bush-Likers that is all. And you happen to be one...I am sorry if you took it too personal.

  8. #38
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    oh and I did not insult anyone with religious beliefs or because they happen to be republicans...but I repeat only people who like bush and his allies need to open their minds more..that is all. :wink:

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    krulltime, do i have to post back what you said though?

  10. #40
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    no...because all that I said makes sense. Don't you believe me?

  11. #41

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    [quote="krulltime"]

    You sound like those naive-minded individuals who love to vote for a president (bush) and be ally to a political party that year by year are becoming one of (if not) the worst political movement in the United State history.

    Can you get that through your heads naive-minded individuals (Freedom Tower)?
    Where do you think most of the charity that most republicans give go to?
    CHURCHES!

    And we said that the muslim religion is a fundamentalist church...yeah! but we have the same in this country and they are getting ground and growing with the help of alot of money of course and no taxes to pay.
    Then you get all of this town people (most town people tend to be very religious) who join the Army and do so many emberrasing things for the USA

    Let me guess Freedom Tower. Are you religious(from a town)? Or are you from Texas? If not please don't call your self a New Yorker.

    By the way is a shame you use the name Freedom Tower. Maybe a true new yorker will had like to use that name instead.

    [\quote]

    You say that people from towns are religious and join the army, and are embarasments to the country, you say that i must be religious, or from a town, or from texas. you say it is a shame i use the name freedom tower. that is obviously purposely insulting to me.

    you called churhces in america fundamentalist.

    you called me naive-minded twice

    your apologies are nothing more than something of a show so when the moderator gets here you look less guilty. read what you wrote to me! that is offensive, insulting, and vulgar.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightRambler
    I wish I could have seen what he said so I could respond appropriately, but given the small bit you posted, I can probably guess what the rest was like.

    Freedom Tower: Do you equate dissent with supporting terrorism? Do you believe the people who control the government right now have your best interests at heart? Do you believe all their connections to defense corporations, oil companies, and the Saudi royal family signify nothing? I'm a little curious. Maybe you know something about them that I don't.
    MR, are you getting an idea of what he is like, or shall we continue to remove what little sheeps clothing he has left?
    Give it a rest ninjahedge. I am not trying to hide my views behind any sheeps clothing. if you ask me a question i will answer you with how i feel abotu that issue. i am not trying to fool anyone about what i do and do not support. that is your game.

  13. #43
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Nope you are misinterpreting what I said to make it look like I said the wrong things aren't you...oh how smart.

    Quotes are from Freedom Tower.

    You say that people from towns are religious and join the army, and are embarasments to the country, you say that i must be religious, or from a town, or from texas. you say it is a shame i use the name freedom tower. that is obviously purposely insulting to me. you called churhces in america fundamentalist.
    yes people from towns do join the army and are religious...is true...do some research is not surpricing. Yeah they did some embarrasing things in Iraq and afghanistan. sadly they were mostly from towns. It is a fact.

    no I am only asking if you are religious or from texas. I did not said you were...I just want it to know that is all. All you do is answer me. Yes or No.

    Yes I am ashame you use that name. But that is my opinion and I did not call you a name to insult you.

    Alot of churches called themselves fundametalists. Just ask them. Some call themselves moderates. Don't you know that?

    you called me naive-minded twice
    So, that is not insulting. I think you need to open your mind more.

    your apologies are nothing more than something of a show so when the moderator gets here you look less guilty. read what you wrote to me! that is offensive, insulting, and vulgar.
    offensive, insulting, and vulgar? You got to be kidding me. I certainly did not. I was very careful with that. Sorry but you can't convince no moderator.

  14. #44

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    Yo, everyone:

    What I said to Freedom Tower also applies to those on the other side of the issue.

    You can say Bush (or Kerry) is an idiot, but you can't say a forumer is an idiot for supporting them. Unlike architectural debates, political debates are taken more personally and name calling escalates into a Giraldo Rivera talk show (remember him?).

  15. #45
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Tower
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
    How about this:

    You are an insulting, belittling, narrow minded, fanatic, conservative, intolerant individual that seems to like to insult people out of hand with things that anyone but you interpret as insults.

    If someone SOUNDS like a terrorist, you are accusing him of being one, or very similar. If someone SOUNDS like an idiot, the same is true.

    By being insulted and asking for Zip to remove that remark, you just inadvertantly confirmed the persons reason for being angry and zips reason for removing it.

    You are not very good at this, are you?
    No, I'm not good at this becuase unlike you I don't consider it a game. You may like to argue but I am just saying what I believe in. I don't practice "debate" as a sport, rather I debate people when i disagree with them, based on what i believe in. Now, what i believe is that you are worse at debating than i am. becuase if zippy is truly a fair moderator than your post is about to get deleted.

    Wrong on SO many levels there FT. First being, you insulted Zip. You insult the guys in charge, even if you ask nicely later you will find it hard to get them to see whatever point of view you want them to see. You insulted the previous poster. I insinuated by your defence that you SOUND stupid. You were insulted, thereby validating Zips choice to remove your post and his own defence of such. Your unwillingness to accept or validate this arguement either lends to the fact that you are ignorant, stubborn and/or stupid.

    And the more you open your mouth (or type) the more you keep digging your own grave on this. the first sign to a mature individual is knowing when to admit they are wrong and ALSO knowing when to just stop talking.

    BTW, for someone that does not believe in debate as a sport, you sure try your best to say you are better at it than anyone else. You are a better complainer, I will give you that. OK, not better. Maybe just more prolific.


    You obviously have some form of a problem understanding this
    "If someone SOUNDS like a terrorist, you are accusing him of being one, or very similar. If someone SOUNDS like an idiot, the same is true."

    Rambler said the EXACT words i had heard terrorists say. Um, wow. So you are now yelling at him and calling him a terrorist instead of stepping back and questioning him. That is flaming someone, and that is why it was deleted. I brought that point up. It is not something i narrow-mindedly came up with, nor is it a vast right wing conspiracy. Now you are putting words in my mouth. I am not talking about RWCs. I said "You insulted him" and you did. You are bringing in all sorts of political ramifications as some sort of justification for your ill-chosen words. The game of LIFE is not played that way FT. It is a fact that bin laden and other terrorists say the things about us that rambler did. For some reason my bringing that to peoples attention not only resulted in its deletion but in your all-out personal attack on me, which i hope the moderators of the forum will cease, as they did so kindly for rambler.

    Every time I have tried to nicely point out your errors and trangressions, you come back and backhand me across the face with your "I know better" form of "debate" where you freely associate things with others that have not even a tacit connection. If you would learn the difference between what I am telling you and what you are telling other people, then maybe you will do us ALL a lot of good.

    But seeing how anything against you, and your beligerant insulting manner, is automatically an insult, it is impossible to be at differing opinion with you without insulting you.


    also, calling me intolerant is laughable. all i did was point out a true fact.There are false facts? i compared ramblers speech to that of a terrorists'. I am pointing out a real-life fact, which you obviously don't want to hear. Man, you seem to be so hung up on calling MR a terrorist, don't you? Every other sentance keeps calling him a terrorist. You have dropped the "sounds like" and have inadvertantly let us all know that you regard him with the same respect as you do the terrorists. Unless you LIKE the terrorists, you are insulting him.

    How many times does this need to be said?
    Why are you so afraid of the truth? You have to attack me and jump down my throat for telling hte truth? besides, zippy deleted it, and you brought it back up again. If he deleted it, why do you keep bringing it back up? so whether it was offending or not is no longer a matter for you to worry about. Is this a last word competition? If it is no longer something for me to worry about, why are you so worried about it? But your obvious personal attacks on me aren't going to do anything but get you in trouble.

    Again with the threats. You insult people around you, and you get your stuffed banned, but yet you ignore anybody elses words and try to turn it back around. "You think I did something wrong by calling him a terrorist, look he called me stupid!!!!!"

    Geez man, you keep shooting yourself in the foot so many times on this. Let it GO already!


    I would also respond to the rest of what you said but I'm not even going to bother.Because you can't. All your arguments and positions have been refuted and you have nothing left. You need to seriously get your head out of the sand on this. You do not seem to be a nasty or malicious person, but definitely naieve and very narrow minded. Seriously dude, try to read more OUTSIDE the news articles that go through the trouble of making your opinions for you! Obviously you cannot have a civilized debate without trying to create a real crisis. whatever insulting things i may have said about rambler were inadvertantly insulting, or insulting in a way i did not realize at the time. they were since deleted. when i compared ramblers speech to that of a terrorist it was becuase it was the same!! but you know what, i did not mean it to be a huge insult. i can see how it may be, but it was not intended to insult, only to prove a point.OK, stop there. that is the POINT I have been trying to get to you. And your refusal to acnowledge it has been the reason for my reply posts. The statement that comes after this one is unneeded and looking for another arguement. you did not need to "however" justify your position. that is NOT a way to come to an amicable solution. You inadvertantly insulted him, and now you are "inadvertantly" keeping the flame going however, you are not even debating the issues anymore. now you are just trying to create a problem here by INTENTIONALLY insulting me. my insults, if they were that, were unintentional, or at least their primary goal was not to insult. the only goal i can see in your last post was the goal of insulting me. Calling me a narrow minded fanatic conservative. I want to hear what zippy says about this one.
    OK, that is the 3rd time you call on Zippy, like somehow you are the poor injured individual. Dude, you "inadvertantly" called someone a killer. I pointed that out to you and it has taken this long for you to even acnowledge it.

    If that is not stubborn I don't know what is.

    You really have to learn. Your "debates" are arguments or complaints, not postings looking for discourse.

    If you find that insulting, too bad. It is the truth (you remember that word that you kept using). It is a fact (that one too).

    >sigh<

    Maybe you will learn, maybe not. We can only hope.

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