The Amazin' Mets

[NoyokA]

I don't think that's true. The Yankees have to scout talent better and sign the right free agents instead of throwing money at garbage like Carl Palvano, Kei Igawa, Jaret Wright, etc. and making bad big trades like for an over-the-hill Randy Johnson. If the Yankees traded for Johan Santana they would be in the playoffs right now, they decided against trading for Santana because it would require two of Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera. Hughes and Kennedy each went winless and had era's over six and a half. Melkdud was sent to the minors.

As for the Mets situational hitting is a problem, a role player is needed, someone that knows how to win and can complement and teach the core of this team. But even more than that the Mets need a bullpen, they blew 13 games when leading after seven, the bullpen was a constant punch in the stomach for both the fans and the team as a whole. If the Mets had a bullpen like the Phillies they would have had the best record in all of baseball and with that kind of lead it would be nearly impossible to collapse. Instead it came to last day of the season, again.

If the Mets don't get a good bullpen, K-rod or Feuntes, plus other bullpen pieces, I'm not watching them next year.

[antinimby]

The Carl Pavanos, Kei Igawas and Jaret Wrights were horrible signings but they were not the reason why the Yankees didn't win this year.

As for Santana, it doesn't work like that. You can't simply say that if he was with the Yankees, they would have made it to the playoffs. There are a lot of intangibles that you can't just plug in his numbers and take out the numbers of the players he would have been traded for. The Yankees may have been better or they may have been worse.

The Mets signed Santana and they fared no better this year than they did without him. If everything was reversed and he went to the Yankees instead and the Mets did exactly what they just did this year, you would have said the same thing: if the Mets had traded for Santana, they would not have collapsed.

Do you see how you cannot project outcomes simply by making assumptions based on what they did under different conditions?

[ZippyTheChimp]

The way a baseball season works is that key players get you the division title or a wild-card spot. You assemble a team to win as many games during the long season, but you can't control whether your team is peaking at the end of the regular season, and if other teams are suddenly hot.

I've heard talk about trading Wright and Reyes, but if that's the case, you have to replace them with players who have comparable season stats, not if they won't choke in the last week.

Last year, the Yankees won the division because Wong was their ace, winning 19 games. They lost to Cleveland in the playoffs because Wong pitched two bad games in a row. There's no way to engineer for that.

The Yanks lost this year because they couldn't overcome the number of losses during the season caused by the loss of Posada and Matsui, the off years for Cano and Cabrera, and the drop off from an MVP year for A-Rod. Mussina won 20 games, which was unexpected, and the bullpen was the best it's been in years. Yanks kost because of reduced offense, bot bad pitching.

The Mets lost because they relied on too many old injury-prone players, had no bullpen down the stretch, and the offense got cold in the last weekend - 5 runs.

Santana did what was expected of him.

[NoyokA]

As for Santana, it doesn't work like that. You can't simply say that if he was with the Yankees, they would have made it to the playoffs. There are a lot of intangibles that you can't just plug in his numbers and take out the numbers of the players he would have been traded for. The Yankees may have been better or they may have been worse.

Um. There's no way they would have been worse. Santana for the season has the best era in all of baseball. He had 16 wins with the Mets, the bullpen, the reason for this years collapse (not the reason for last years), blew 7 games where Santana left with a lead. With the Yankees bullpen of Joba + Mariano, Santana would have had over 20 wins. The tandem they would have traded for Santana went 0-8, the scrubs they substituted the rest of the season in their place went sub 500. Zippy's right, Wang was a huge blow, the Yankees had no ace. If Santana was there it would've made all the difference in the world.

[antinimby]

Surely you don't suggest that he would have the same season if he was with Yankees?

This isn't Fantasy Baseball where all one does is plug in the numbers of every player and let the computer determine the outcome.

With the Yankees, he could have been the same, better or worse. Like I said, the Yankees might have been better or they might have been worse with Santana.

Nothing is for certain.

[NoyokA]

Johan Santana has never had a bad year in his career. He excelled in New York across town. But since you always have to be right (and negative), yes he could have theoretically made the Yankees worse.

I still follow the forum as much as I always have because I'm a moderator but I don't post as much because of some really annoying posters. Moderators don't have the option of the ignore function.

[antinimby]

You seem to have issues Stern. I don't know what that last bit about you not posting and annoying posters has anything to do with this discussion about baseball and the Mets.

And no, I am not trying to be right all the time, at least not any more than you or any other posters here. You make it seem like I am the only one here that engage in back and forth debates. If anything, I engage in those the least among the veterans. So, please.

As for Santana, you don't mean to suggest that he will never have a bad year right? And if you do agree that he will eventually have a bad year, how do you know it wouldn't have been with the Yankees?

Being in New York is one thing but playing in the red hot spotlight that is the Yankees is another. Throw in the fact that the AL is so much more tougher to pitch in than the weaker NL and that could make all the difference in the world. Sometimes a bad beginning can make him and the team lose morale and that could unravel their whole season. That's how things could have turn out bad.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Baseball's long season makes it the sport of statistics, that more than others, follows the law of averages.

You can't just plug someone in on another team and be confident that the results will be the same, but to the extent that you can make predictions, it is easier to do so with a starting pitcher than an everyday player.

Unless a pitcher has an overbearing personality, they're not as much an influence on "clubhouse chemistry' as an everyday player. Or how the batting order works as a unit.

You can match their pitching style to the characteristics of new team/ballpark. A sinkerball pitcher needs good infield defense. Santana as a lefty would benefit from the deeper left field of Yankee Stadium. Stuff like that.

You look at things like ERA, number of walks, and most important - number of innings pitched, which impacts how much pressure is put on the bullpen. You expect around 32 starts and 230 total innings. Santana was right there.

When Wang went down with a season ending injury, the Yankees had to find other pitchers to give them those innings. They used Rasner, signed a risky Ponzon, and brought assorted pitchers up from the minors to fill in, with mixed results.

I have no doubt that they could have plugged Santana into Wang's spot in the rotation, and there would have been no dropoff in performance, and he would have been better than the committee they were forced to use. Whether that would have been enough to get them a playoff spot, no one can say. But I'm sure they would have won more games.

[NYC4Life]

NY1

10/03/2008 05:58 PM
Report: Jerry Manuel To Stay With The Mets



A day after the Mets announce a contract extension for their general manager, there's word their field manager will be back next season.

Reports say Jerry Manuel has agreed to a two-year deal with the club, with the Mets holding an option for a third season.

Manuel took over as interim manager after Willie Randolph was fired in June.

He led the Mets to a 55-38 record, but for the second year in a row, they were eliminated from playoff contention on the last day of the season.

Manuel was the 2000 American League manager of the year with the Chicago White Sox.

[TheFivePoints]

chirp chirp........don't think to many Met fans are excited about this decision.

[OmegaNYC]

I am. For the simple fact that Manuel could end up being the NL Manager of the Year. He is a decent manager, and there is nobody out there for the Mets to get.

[TheFivePoints]

Omega
Remember Jerry was with the team in 2007 for that disaster and then 2008....I think a change in the way that things are done would be best suited for the Mets....I'm not saying 07 was his fault but the Mets need a shake up, with some retooling they still are a good team in the NL for next year, Pitching, Pitching, and moe Pitching is number one on the list.

[ZippyTheChimp]

A saw a video clip this morning of the Mets game in Atlanta on TV, but I can't find it.

Adam LaRoche hit a long home run into the right field upper deck. A guy sitting in the first row caught the ball. He handed it to his little daughter. While he looked away, she calmly turned around and tossed the ball back.

The guy's eyes went wide and he put both hands on top of his head. I thought, "Please don't be an idiot."

But he was cool. He laughed and gave her a big hug.

[JCMAN320]

http://www.nj.com/parenting/carrie_s..._video_da.html

Here is the video and story behind the father and daughter.

[Ninjahedge]

Cute vid, but seen it on EVERY news station now (3 times over).

They interviewed him and the kid and it seems like she was a little tired of the attension too.

"Why did you do it?"

" 'cause!"