The former HoJos can't go higher.Originally Posted by Peteynyc1
The reddish brick building on the east side of 8th Ave. opposite the former HoJos is a fairly recent building where they won't go higher, but just to the east of that (mid-block and on to Broadway) are some potential sites where theoretically a much taller building (or buildings) could go up per Zoning Regs, thus affecting the views from the Link to the east.
Notice that the Link website doesn't show any of the views to the east (what you'd see is mainly the red brick building mentioned above).
Some more info here: http://hellskitchen.net/develop/news/rs980423.html
As boring as that stuff is written, I found it informative. thanks! I just wondered if they ever tore down the former Ho-Jo's, if they could build a new building taller than whats there now. If they are limited, my guess is that former ho will be there for a long long time, especially with the Link now leaning up against it.
peter, its actually not going to be agains it, there is 50ft btw the 2. the apartments in the link facing the hojo are going to esentially be in an alley.
That is partially incorrect. There is a portion of the building (unit A) which sticks out on the East side. This part of the building touches the portion of the hotel which also sticks out (prob the elevator shafts). For this reason the lower A Units do not have windows on the East side. I do agree, everyone below 16 will be looking right into the hotel windows. They are so close together that one would not even need a telescope for a full viewpeter, its actually not going to be agains it, there is 50ft btw the 2. the apartments in the link facing the hojo are going to esentially be in an alley.
wow, didnt know that,. you are sure? the model on the website is not 100% accurate i think, i thought that shaft that you are referring to is the rear wall of the building and it actually extends north and south. i dont think the rendering shows that correctly.
Go back to posting #67 of this thread and check out the picture. This should make it pretty clear how the two buildings touch. The apartments above 16 on this side are priced significantly higher, as the view opens up once you get above the hotel which no longer has air rights to go higher.
This shot below gives you a good sense of the relationship between the Link + ex-HoJos (at bottom left). seems to me that floor 16 will definitely clear the HoJos -- and even units on floors a bit lower. but notice that floor 15 (?) appears to have somewhat higher ceiling height in this rendering (as do 3, 6 and the 3 top penthouses):
If a person wanted to find out whether air rights to a specific building, say his own, had been sold, where would that information be available?
November 2005
Air rights: Making deals out of thin air
Shifts in deals overhead mirror expensive changes on the ground
By Jaffer Kolb Declining to buy what you can't see would seem to be a guiding principle of success in real estate, but in New York, that's bad advice.
Pricing for air rights, the ability to build atop or around an existing structure, has become an accurate, sensitive, and, at times, prescient index of the development market. Though it's not a large segment of the industry in New York, real estate veterans say it's wise to watch the skies – and how much little pieces of it cost.
"Typical air rights values are worth about 60 percent of comparable land values," said Robert Von Ancken, executive managing director at Grubb & Ellis' valuation and advisory group. "But clearly they can differ given the desirability of the land."
Two main factors determine the value of air rights and the frequency of their transactions: location and zoning. Not surprisingly, popular neighborhoods such as Tribeca and Soho see many air rights transactions, said Von Ancken. And areas that are zoned with no building height limitations – for example, along First, Second, and Third avenues from the Upper East Side to Gramercy – have also seen many air rights transfers.
Despite the myth that air rights provide a legal loophole to avoid zoning, they are restricted by the same limitations as any new construction.
Said Samuel Lindenbaum of Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel, one of the top real estate lawyers in the city and an air rights expert, "Air rights are very much a part of zoning. Yes, you can merge lots, you can add floor area, but you will be constrained by setbacks. And you can't get around a height maximum."
According to Sandy Hornick, director of strategic planning at the Department of City Planning, merging lots is the most common form of air rights transfer. By purchasing an adjacent lot, a developer can merge two to increase the maximum floor to area ratio (FAR) of the building, which translates into an increased allowance of vertical construction. (See link to air rights map, prepared by real estate Web site propertyshark.com, below).
Lot-merging illustrates how the real estate market has come to shape the application of air rights. Where in the past, said Lindenbaum, land assemblages were common for commercial development on a massive scale, now smaller parcels use lot-merging to create more desirable residential development.
Air rights transactions have closely followed the broader trajectory of real estate in New York, shifting from commercial to residential markets.
"Now commercial land is pretty flat," said Von Ancken. "As a result, there is little incentive for commercial real estate developers to purchase air rights," as they likely wouldn't gain a significant return – a reflection simply of a weak commercial real estate market.
But with residential real estate going through the roof, air rights are no gamble, since developers know they're going to get a good return. According to Von Ancken, brokers are increasingly advising buyers and sellers whether they have and how to use their air rights.
Developers large and small see possession of air rights as an integral resource to the success of a property. It's not just a matter of going taller and bigger, though, but also of allowing an architect to create an exceptional design.
"Sometimes you will see developers buying air rights as a light-protector, so they can put windows along the side of the building that faces the lot you merged with," said Von Ancken. This attitude of using air rights to enhance design is gaining popularity, as smaller developers build up smaller parcels to their maximum heights in a fiercely competitive market.
One such developer, Angelo Cosentini of On the Level Enterprises, wanted to both maximize usable space as well as create a distinctive building. He bought the air rights of three lots adjacent to his own parcel, on Norfolk near Delancey, with rights to cantilever over all three.
"We wanted a more extensive build out," said Cosentini. By acquiring the air rights – and permission from his neighbors to cantilever his building over theirs – Cosentini could have a more flexible floor plate.
The developers hope their Blue condo, designed by Bernard Tschumi Architects, will stand out from the surrounding area, which, based on its scale, shouldn't be a problem: With the extra air rights, the blue-glazed building can rise eight stories higher than it would as a single parcel.
For anyone familiar with the area, this height is far from keeping with the low scale of the Lower East Side. Cosentini defends its character. "The building is visible, it won't be buried by other buildings," he said. "I think having varying building heights is aesthetically pleasing."
Local community groups pushing for rezoning tend to disagree. Recent years have seen a dramatic increase in community efforts to protect neighborhood character through downzoning and contextual zoning. Activist groups such as the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, led by executive director Andrew Berman, have aggressively pushed for the DCP to protect areas from overdevelopment.
"We have to worry a lot about the transfer of air rights creating ridiculously out-of-place buildings," said Berman, "A contextual envelope means we have to worry a lot less."
In areas such as West Chelsea, air rights are being determined in relation to special zoning circumstances, such as the planned conversion of the High Line into a public park. To prevent development from encroaching on the new greensward, the DCP allows the transfer of air rights from properties beneath and adjacent to the High Line elsewhere within the district.
Certain building types tend to sell more air rights – usually institutional or symbolic buildings that are typically low in scale or don't require massive square footage. Government buildings such as Grand Central Station and the James A. Farley Post Office, which is being converted into Moynihan Station, have had highly publicized and record-setting air rights sales. The Church of the Epiphany on York Avenue on the Upper East Side is selling air rights to build condominiums above itself. One church on the Upper East Side recently sold air rights for $235 per square foot – according to Von Ancken, one of the highest prices ever paid for air rights.
In the link below, the map from propertyshark.com shows sites all over New York City that are sitting on large amounts of unused air rights (the map can also be viewed at propertyshark.com).
These include large swaths of land at the foot of the Upper West Side; small areas along the East River, including around the United Nations and in the southeastern portion of the Lower East Side; and large zones in Queens – areas which are sure to experience a wave of development, as more and more people understand real estate's hottest commodity.
http://www.propertyshark.com/maps/?basemap=fargap
I think that map is out of date, especially regarding the area around Hudson Yards, Garment District & Hells Kitchen which were recently rezoned with new FARs.
3/2/06
woa. its getting up there hu?
live shot
It appears that the Wired NY webcam #2 was adjusted slightly right, and there is now a much better live view of The Link progress (lower right corner)
http://www.wirednewyork.com/webcam2/default.htm
I walked by the building yesterday, it looks to be up to about Floor 25 or 26. It is now well above the top of the hotel by about 9 floors, and you can see it sneaking over the top from 7th Ave at 51st St. The glass is now up on the lower 3 or 4 floors. Wish I had a camera with me when I was there, the glass windows look sharp.
Last edited by Peteynyc1; March 20th, 2006 at 09:49 PM.
A good forumer should always have a camera on hand at all times.
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