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Thread: 111 Central Park North - Harlem - Condo

  1. #31

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    Maybe they were going for the "urban kitsch" look with the diving boards. Some plastic palms on the roof, a little neon, squint up your eyes real good and why, you think you're in South Beach! Brilliant!

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFerrari360f1
    As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's. Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows.
    I hope not, this neighborhood is classic and in my opinion the greatest neighborhood to be in.

    *senses racism*

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by capoeta cypher
    *senses racism*
    Oh, knock it off.

    Tiresome.

  4. #34

    Default I agree capoeta cypher. Completely.

    It's clear enough that a proper interpretation of RedFerrari's little code here:

    "Originally Posted by RedFerrari360f1
    As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's. Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows."

    implies that a "Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem" would be more desirable as a "posch(sic) White community." Just taking the poster at his word and I couldn't agree less. "Maybe it will return as such" is clear and unfortunate enough, but what does, "induce its self into a cycle," mean? "Who knows."

    I find 'ablarc's,' "Oh, knock it off. Tiresome," in his/her response to you, tiresome, as his/her problem seems to be with calling racism out but not racism itself. Quite shameful.

  5. #35

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    Granite and Capoeta: the truth is that Harlem is destined to "gentrify". That means expensive condos...up-scale shopping. Whether we like it or not...that means more people with money in Harlem. And that means more white people. Already the demographics for Manhattan are showing a drop in the number of blacks.

    So actually taking apart RedFerrari´s comment:

    "As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's."

    True

    "Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows."

    Is happening already.

    Is RedFerrari endorsing this? His post doesn´t say so....but it seems that the City and real-estate developers certainly are.

    ----------------------

    As far as the style of this building goes.... I think it´s appropriate. The problem for me is that it looks setback from the street wall... on top of a very low base...not very good. And those "diving boards" are pretty awful. But it´s clean modern style is nicely done and the balconies are handled well. A modern building like this sits nicely among classic brick buildings. Let´s hope the glass isn´t reflective.

    Worse would´ve been another orangy brick tower with exposed floor plates lined with tiny "open-drawer"-style balconies. This at least looks stylish and deluxe.

    Remember too, that modern-style buildings do line Central Park. 5th Avenue has plenty of them....some more successful than others. The best of the lot is IMO this one at 1045 5th. Good modern architecture that looks fine next to it´s classic-style neighbors. In fact compare this to the proposed building at 111 CPN: although it´s much smaller, there are some similarities in design :

    http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif1045.htm

    Another view of it next to 1040:

    http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif1040.htm

    ( BTW....note the roof of 1040 ^^^....you can see where Robert Stern got his inspiration for 15CPW.)

    Other modern buildings on 5th:

    http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif1056.htm

    http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif857.htm
    Last edited by Fabrizio; June 15th, 2006 at 07:29 AM.

  6. #36

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    Granite, my problem is with easy virtue and goody-goodyism. I can find plenty of both in any Southern Baptist church. It's an indicator of hypocrisy, and it is yes, tiresome. It's also a drag when conversational flow is diverted into testy and paranoid accusations every time race is brought up. It makes the forum much less fun, and fun is the reason we're all here.

    It's despotic that for some, all mention of race is evidence of racism (except paeans). Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    .
    Last edited by ablarc; June 15th, 2006 at 07:52 AM.

  7. #37

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    *senses racism*

    I suspect that the cigar comment has something to do with Cubans.

  8. #38

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    How about the Cigars that non-Cubans make?


  9. #39

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    July 30, 2006
    Street Level | Harlem
    Paint It White
    By JOHN FREEMAN GILL


    Detail from the rendering of the planned condo.

    Things were looking bright and shiny and homogeneous on Central Park North and Malcolm X Boulevard on a recent Sunday.

    A new 19-story blue-glass condo caught the summer sun, shimmering with wealth and comfort. On the fifth floor, a white man pointed from his gleaming balcony, apparently enjoying his commanding view of Central Park’s undulating meadows. Several other residents, who all also appeared to be white, gazed out serenely from their own balconies. On the sidewalk, a white couple sat beneath a white market umbrella as clean-cut white pedestrians strolled past.

    If something seems wrong with this picture, that’s because a picture is all the scene was — a large artist’s rendering, posted at the construction site at 111 Central Park North, where the condo will soon rise.

    But the decidedly bleached vision of that corner has not gone unnoticed in the area, which is mostly black and Latino and which has seen less of the striking gentrification that has swept across many other parts of Harlem.

    “People stop here and say, ‘Do you see one black face?’ ” said Fatimahta Adegoke, an energetic woman with dreadlocks who was selling African soap nearby.

    Ms. Adegoke jabbed a painted fingernail at the condo’s billboard, which advertised apartments of $1.5 million and up. The median family income in the Central Park North area, which is south of 116th Street from Frederick Douglass Boulevard to Fifth Avenue, was $24,000 in 1999.

    “If it’s starting at $1.5 million, they’re blatantly saying, ‘We don’t want black folks or people of color around here,’ ” said Ms. Adegoke, who lives in one of two homeless shelters on Central Park North, also known as 110th Street.

    Bill Perkins, a former city councilman for the area who is running for State Senate, said that local outrage at the rendering was so great that he had threatened the building’s developer, the Athena Group, with demonstrations if the image was not removed. The controversy was first reported in The Amsterdam News.

    “It’s the nightmare, in your face, of what people fear is happening to their community,” Mr. Perkins said. “At the doorway to a historic, world-renowned black community, there’s an all-white message.”

    In response, Kenya Smith, the Athena Group’s vice president of development, said that the rendering would be altered to include more people who are clearly African-American. Mr. Smith said the figures in the rendering were merely included for scale.

    “It’s not an attempt to keep anybody out,” he said. “We want as inclusive a building as anywhere.”

    For some longtime residents, however, the image seemed an all-too-literal representation of their anxieties about gentrification. About six years ago, only about 3 percent of the area’s residents were white, according to Census figures, but real estate brokers and residents say the percentage, including many Europeans, has surged since then.

    “They’re moving us out,” said Keith White, a 26-year-old African-American with a glittering stud earring, who was buying a cherry ice from a Mexican vendor beneath the condo site’s scaffolding.

    “Now the rent is going to go up more,” added the vendor, Melissa Santos. “So now everyone is going to live in the Bronx.”

    Even without such mass displacement, central Harlem’s demographic shift is already transforming the area’s street life. On Central Park North, residents say, the number of men with gray Afros who socialize outside rental buildings has diminished, while No. 217, a mix of rent-stabilized and market-rate apartments, will get a doorman starting this week. Central Park North is now a street of stark contrasts, where black and white professionals carry their dry cleaning past the sealed windows of the Lincoln Correctional Facility, while apartment owners at the Semiramis, a granite-columned prewar condo, complain of the homeless trying to sneak into the building.

    The new glass tower will add a luxe element, which some middle-class blacks welcome.

    “It’ll clean up the neighborhood a little bit,” said Earl Wint, 47, a baby-faced Jamaican-American film production assistant who was playing dominoes with friends on 111th Street.

    Others were less sanguine about any accelerated influx of white residents. “When I see a lot of other white people,” said Jamie Black, a white editor at a Jewish service organization who is a 10-year Harlem resident, “I think, ‘There goes the neighborhood.’ ”

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  10. #40
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    You gotta wonder if these marketing dweebs ever get out of their offices ...

  11. #41

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    “If it’s starting at $1.5 million, they’re blatantly saying, ‘We don’t want black folks or people of color around here,’ ” said Ms. Adegoke, who lives in one of two homeless shelters on Central Park North, also known as 110th Street.
    Does anyone else find this statement alarming? I mean, yes, it's no secret that poorer neighborhoods have a high concentration of minorities. It's not racism, it's fact. BUT, how awful is their mindset that just because something is expensive, only whites can afford it? Are they content with being lower class?

    (I understand this may be a topic for a different subforum)

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfenn1117
    Does anyone else find this statement alarming? I mean, yes, it's no secret that poorer neighborhoods have a high concentration of minorities. It's not racism, it's fact. BUT, how awful is their mindset that just because something is expensive, only whites can afford it? Are they content with being lower class?
    You may have uncovered something very insidious here, sfenn1117. Who can disagree; the truth of what you say is plain. Now watch for the denial...and let's prepare for the accusations of you-know-what. Fasten seat belt.

  13. #43
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I think the woman quoted in this article -- who is currently living in a homeless shelter -- might be the first to say that in her experience the people of color with whom she has interraction do not buy a 1.5 Million dollar home.

    And when the market-eers put up big color picture ads showing NO blacks living in the building it only reinforces the (possibly misguided but consistently backed-up) belief that NO people of color stand a chance of living there.

    The fact is that you and I probably come into more direct contact on a regular basis with wealthy blacks and people of color than does this woman.

    IMO the following is a far more insidious remark:
    In response, Kenya Smith, the Athena Group’s vice president of development, said that the rendering would be altered to include more people who are clearly African-American. Mr. Smith said the figures in the rendering were merely included for scale.
    Oh, I see ... the little drawings of white people were put in just so everyone would know that the windows weren't really just a mere 6 inches tall.

    LMFAO

    Talk about trying to spin himself out of a hole.

  14. #44
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfenn1117
    Are they content with being lower class?
    Are you aware that there are 25,000 people in NYC currently living in Homeless Shelters (see below)?

    Being "content" with that situation probably has very little if anything to do with the circumstances that pushed them into what can only be a far from satisfactory way to live. Many Americans are reportedly a mere two paychecks away from a similar fate.

    How cruel the world must seem when one barely has a penny in their pocket and all around are ads screaming "Buy!!" & "Consume!!!!" ...

    SURGE IN HOMELESS

    NY_POST
    By CASSI FELDMAN

    July 30, 2006 -- The number of homeless has soared this summer, leaving the city scrambling for beds, according to the Department of Homeless Services.

    As of Wednesday, there were 8,424 families - representing 24,776 individuals - in city shelters, about 5 percent more than last July's figure of 8,046.

    While the number of homeless families tends to climb in the summer, when children are out of school and underfoot in crowded apartments, the department acknowledged that this year's spike, which bucks a two-year decline, is unusual.

    Angela Allen, a spokeswoman for the agency, noted that the homeless-family population was still down 19 percent from its peak in 2003.

    To accommodate the newly homeless families, the department opened 120 new shelter rooms in July, spread over four buildings, at a cost of $66 to $98 per night - a minimum of $237,600 in city funding.

    The news comes at an awkward time for Mayor Bloomberg, who gushed about the city's approach to homelessness during a July 17 conference in Washington.

    Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

  15. #45
    The Dude Abides
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfenn1117
    Does anyone else find this statement alarming? I mean, yes, it's no secret that poorer neighborhoods have a high concentration of minorities. It's not racism, it's fact. BUT, how awful is their mindset that just because something is expensive, only whites can afford it? Are they content with being lower class?

    (I understand this may be a topic for a different subforum)
    I find it alarming too, sfenn. There's no reason to believe that an ethnically diverse group of buyers won't inhabit this building, especially given its location. I remember learning recently of traditionally wealthy African-American enclaves in Queens, where decades ago, the well-off (mainly in the entertainment industry) bought nice houses and lived peacefully, in de facto segregated communities, and continue to do so today. As much as we may believe we've progressed as a society, as far as integration is concerned, we really haven't that much. The changes are clear de jure. We no longer see segregation enforced; rather, we often jump at the chance to dispel any possibility that it still exists at all. I see it at school all the time. Our student body is considered to be from predominantly upper-middle and wealthy families, and it's incredibly diverse, yet somehow, the Asian kids always have dinner together, as do the African-Americans, and the whites.

    As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out in a few months that this building has a higher proportion of African Americans living there than a similar building on Central Park South, or Park Avenue, and that a kind of niche has been formed for the wealthy in that group. The people living next door may change their minds about the racial makeup of the residents, but they'll still be annoyed as heck that their financial and social status is so out of line, so to speak. I say to hell with them. America, like almost every place in the world, is filled with contradictions. I see mansions a mile away from mobile homes in my suburban area. At the Port Authority, I see deadbeats coming off the buses along with well-off commuters coming in to work. On 5th and Park Avenues, I see bums begging for money while some of the wealthiest businesspeople in the city exit their office buildings and apartments and disappear into black cars. On 96th street, on the Upper East Side, I visually see the residential buildings transition, almost immediately, from doorman to low-income. It's a fact of life, and Central Park North is no different from any of these places.

    But what most gets to me is statements like these:

    “When I see a lot of other white people,” said Jamie Black, a white editor at a Jewish service organization who is a 10-year Harlem resident, “I think, ‘There goes the neighborhood.’ ”
    This makes you no better than all the people who participated in white-flight during the 70's. Get a grip on reality, and realize that there are much worse things that could happen to your neighborhood.

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