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Thread: 111 Central Park North - Harlem - Condo

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatman View Post
    This thread has enhanced my potential graduate thesis.......Black Flight!

    I have observed a bunch of African-Americans (many who originally migrated from the South in the 50s and 60s) leave the City of New York, and have gone "back Down South", for nicer, cheper houses and bigger land. All of my remaining aunts and uncles, except one, have "retired back home to N. Carolina". I have a feeling my mother, at the completion of her coop payments (in the next year or so), is outta here!!!!! And to think that Mom didn't want to be "reminded of them tobacco fields."

    I'm right now thinking of historical factors playing a role in re-migration over the last 15 years.......

    1) Redlining, by banks, back in the day

    2) Crime

    3) Guliani's "war on color!"

    and now.....

    4) Cost of living.....more like cost of housing!

    Let's be real.....111 CPN is discouraging to a lot of people. So is a $440K two-bed condo in Bushwick, a neighborhood once left for dead! Trust me, I'm all for development, and doing my best to own something in this city, but if persons of color are not afforded opportunities to get a piece of the pie, they will go elsewhere!

    And speaking of CPN, a friend of mine is in a condo in the CPN area (right across from the park). He bought it in 1978, at, hold your breath....$167K! 3 beds, two baths! He is the last African-American in the building!!!!!!! A realtor recently offered him $1.4M. To be honest, that's too damn low. However, in the context of re-migration, how much can $1.4 get you in the Carolinas.........????????? And how much cash may still be pocketed.....??????
    I don't agree with you at All on the Gulliani comment above. It was a war on crime and WE ALL BENEFITED..

    On another note, I am happy to hear your friend bought, back in the day. It goes to show you the power of Ownership.. and if only more AAs bought in Harlem (or anywhere), they would be benefiting now as well.

  2. #62

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    I am wondering where this site is exactly: time to post an aerial view on this one - stay tuned!

  3. #63
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Here you go: Google MAP

    ***
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Never to the guys with the big water tanks hawking for "Donations" (which is really a ruse to benefit them individually).
    How does this fake group - United Homeless Organization - get away with being permanantly planted on the major intersections screaming "Only One Penny will help us....."

    again, only in New York......liberal capital

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatman View Post
    This thread has enhanced my potential graduate thesis.......Black Flight!



    I'm right now thinking of historical factors playing a role in re-migration over the last 15 years.......

    1) Redlining, by banks, back in the day

    2) Crime

    3) Guliani's "war on color!"

    and now.....

    4) Cost of living.....more like cost of housing!

    However, in the context of re-migration, how much can $1.4 get you in the Carolinas.........????????? And how much cash may still be pocketed.....??????
    Why not look at it from another view:

    1. The South is now a more hospitable place for Blacks to live. Metro Atlanta has a huge growing Black middle and upper middle class. Many former New Orleans residents have moved there and are in shock with the opportunities there for them.

    2. White New Yorkers have been retiring to the South for decades. No is claiming they got pushed out. (have you been to Florida?) It is simply an easier, affordable life with better weather.

    3. for $1.4 MM you can buy a MANSION in the Carolinas!

  6. #66
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Yeah, it may be more affordable and the weather is milder during the winters (beware of the oppressive summers, though) but New York has things to offer that they don't or can't come close.

    Like they say, "you get what you paid for."

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    Yeah, it may be more affordable and the weather is milder during the winters (beware of the oppressive summers, though) but New York has things to offer that they don't or can't come close.

    Like they say, "you get what you paid for."
    That's about the gist of it.

  8. #68
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    With the exception of those occasional 70-degree days during the winter, I think Carolina weather is just as bad, if not worse, than New York weather.

    Housing is dirt cheap, though. Think 3-bedroom McMansion in the low 200,000s.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    With the exception of those occasional 70-degree days during the winter, I think Carolina weather is just as bad, if not worse, than New York weather.
    Wouldn't know; I'm never out in it. Always in some climate-controlled pod or another. In a place like the Carolinas, weather has no meaning since you never walk anywhere; most folks don't even own an overcoat, and many houses come without a coat closet. I've never been in a place where people spend so little time outdoors.

    The folks who live here get offended if you point this out; they think of themselves as rugged outdoorsmen.

  10. #70
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    ablarc, where are from originally?

  11. #71
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    I think that's a fairly accurate assessment, ablarc. But it probably extends to a lot of other places, especially the younger cities of the Sunbelt. Everything is so incredibly dependent on the car that there's no need to walk (at least, not outside). That's why I like New York so much; you can walk to get almost anywhere. Over the summer, I had a job in Midtown East. I took a bus in from Jersey every day, and always took the 25-30 minute walk from the Port Authority, both ways. Only a couple thunderstorms forced me to take the subway over the course of 14 weeks. At the same time, one of my friends got a similar job in downtown Atlanta. He spent his summer driving from his suburb in two hour-long traffic jams, and paying heavily for gas. But at least he got to pull in to the building's garage, and avoid the weather.

  12. #72
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  13. #73
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    Can't see the surfboard balconies on that ^^^

    Are the tree branches in the way? Or do they go on later???

  14. #74
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    ACROSS 110TH

    CENTRAL PARK NORTH IS BREAKING REAL-ESTATE RECORDS


    By MAX GROSS

    June 14, 2007 -- A year and a half ago, New York magazine asked real-estate appraiser Jonathan Miller to estimate what Central Park was worth.

    The figure Miller came up with - more than $528 billion - seemed astronomical. Yet, considering how much New Yorkers spend to live along its edges, it makes sense. Real estate on the south, east and west borders of the park has always been expensive, and lately has hit new heights with buildings such as 110 Central Park South and especially 15 Central Park West. But oddly, the northern border has largely been ignored.

    It's only been recently that Central Park North, aka 110th Street - the Harlem corridor that Bobby Womack immortalized - has entered Manhattan's real-estate frenzy.

    "I'm surprised it's taken so long for Central Park North to come into its own," says Janu Sivanesan, who bought a three-bedroom, three-bath condo at the new 111 Central Park North condo building with her husband, Steve Zaloudek, and two daughters. "It is the absolute best view."

    "The north side of the park is still very much a neighborhood," says Nancy Fire Breslau, a designer, who, with husband Neil and their two children, purchased a four-bedroom, four-bath, 2,800-square-foot duplex at 111 CPN. "It's pretty much untouched. It's like a neighborhood in progress."

    Indeed, this might be the last chance to get in on Central Park North before developers truly take over and prices go the way of the park's other borders. But, to a certain extent, it's already getting there. In the fall of 2005, the modest 17-unit building, 125 Central Park North, went condo and broke a Harlem record when it sold units at $850 per square foot. That record was almost doubled earlier this year when 111 Central Park North got $1,620 per square foot for the penthouse. (The building, which will be finished in the fall, has already done more than $70 million in sales - at an average price of around $1,300 per square foot.)

    And perhaps the sweetest plum has yet to be picked: The Museum for African Art, which is being designed by Robert A.M. Stern, the architect of 15 CPW, is expected to break ground this June. In addition to museum space, the project's plans call for a massive residential component of roughly 115 condo units for a total of 160,000 square feet of space.

    "What's exciting about Central Park North and the developments going on there is that it's going to raise the image of Harlem to those who are outside," says Joe Holland, president of Uptown Developers, whose own condo, Fifth on the Park (10 blocks north of CPN), is rising. Prices will undoubtedly drift north (in both senses of the word), where most of the real estate is still less than $1,000 per square foot.

    For people who have followed the history of Harlem, this shouldn't come as a huge surprise. The buildings along Central Park North were once the most celebrated in the city.

    "These buildings were where the Jews would move to when they made their money downtown," says Jeffrey S. Gurock, a professor of Jewish-American history at Yeshiva University and the author of "When Harlem Was Jewish: 1870-1930."

    "These were elevator apartments overlooking the park. It had a reputation as one of the classiest neighborhoods in the city. That's where people who did good went - they were called the 'allrightniks.'"

    Though Central Park North was one of the more posh addresses in Harlem, the street lagged behind other parts of the neighborhood when gentrification hit. One reason is that Central Park North doesn't have the stock of brownstones that have been so sought after; instead, it consists of big apartment buildings. Most of these apartment buildings are rent-stabilized, or Mitchell-Lama buildings, which never make for an easy conversion.

    But in 2005, Central Park North got its first taste of the semi-luxury condo market when 125 Central Park North opened.

    "Everyone said [developer Queva Lutz] was crazy for paying the price she did," says Stephen Kliegerman, executive director of development marketing at Halstead Property.

    He estimates that Lutz (who died recently) spent between $10 million and $12 million on the project, taking an old building and adding floors to it. "They went on the market in September, and sold the building out in a month."

    Apartments there have been resold at 25 to 50 percent more than their original price, according to Kliegerman.

    The Athena Group, which is developing 111 CPN, followed 125 CPN's lead.

    "We bought the property around four years ago," says Louis Dubin, president of the Athena Group. Dubin and his brother, Harry, saw that the neighborhood consisted of mostly low- to mid-rise buildings and decided that something big - 17 stories - would allows for views of the park that are as spectacular as they come.

    "What word can you think of for such a view?" says Harry, stepping out onto the terrace of 111 CPN's still unfinished penthouse (which has been chosen by Esquire magazine as its next "Ultimate Bachelor Pad.") The view - overlooking the Harlem Meer - is certainly impressive.

    Certainly, West 110th Street has its problems. The Micthell-Lama buildings could certainly use a face-lift. And The Lincoln Correctional Facility, a halfway house for women, still has a prime place overlooking the park. (It's the building with the screen windows, the security cameras and searchlights. "That's a pretty nice prison to get a view of Central Park!" remarks Matthew Ragas, 27, an actor who recently moved to Harlem.) But there have been rumors swirling that the Central Park Conservancy is considering making a bid on it. (When NYP Home called the Conservancy, they politely declined to comment.)

    "I think over time you'll see the conversion of these buildings," says Kliegerman. "It won't happen right away, but eventually."

    "It'll be fun to watch," says George Hirsch, another buyer at 111 CPN, who literally ran into the project during one of his jogs through Central Park. He and his wife, Shay, bought a three-bedroom for $2.7 million and are selling the Murray Hill townhouse that they have owned for more than 30 years.

    Hirsch, the founder of the New York City Marathon, has also found the best reason to settle on Central Park North. "Central Park," he says, "is my country club!"

    Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc.

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