Reply With QuoteI know the area. I've been there. Weekends. Weekdays. Day. Night. Dead.
My concern is how they are going about it. There might be more shiny new towers in the future but it's not going to change much.
That is what Soho looked like when I moved there in the 85' - give LIC a few years, and this will become a vibrant, walkable Urban Neighborhood.
They do need to get a good Ferry service, and the MTA needs to fix the current bottle neck congestion at the local subway stations: then this will be another great 'car free' and totally 'walkable' community.
I know the area. I've been there. Weekends. Weekdays. Day. Night. Dead.
My concern is how they are going about it. There might be more shiny new towers in the future but it's not going to change much.
This will never be another SoHo. The built environment is completely different.
Yes, and it will never be another Williamsburg, or Jersey City. The subject at hand (and my point) is 'desolate streets' vs a someday busy, well populated area: which this area is well on it way to becoming. If think this area will still be "void of pedestrian activity" in ten years or so: it think you wrong.
A populated area will not make it vibrant. People always say things like, "well, once the new residential buildings are built and people move in, this will become more vibrant..."
Well, look at waterfront JC. Look at Trump Riverside South. Look at Queens West..
Give them more time. They'll become another SoHo. Yeah, okay...
Last edited by antinimby; June 3rd, 2012 at 08:34 AM.
The problem with Queens West is multifold, but the big ones are the wall of parking garages that face 5th street, the amount of empty storefronts on Center Boulevard, and the extremely large footprints the buildings have.
I think the area around Court Square to Queens Plaza has more promise than Queens West will have to be more pedestrian friendly.
That's right.
Any place with an older building stock with smaller footprints always have more potential for a lively neighborhood than places with large new towers that take up an entire block.
Jersey & Queens are two different things. Check out the area around Vernon-Jackson, it's a pretty lively area now where it was completely dead 5-10 years ago. Williamsburg wasn't nearly as pedestrian heavy 20 years ago and now it's comparable to the East Village. The reality is that people want to live in NYC and the majority can't afford the $3429 average rent in Manhattan. The areas closest to the Manhattan have been steadily growing in population and acceptance and they will only get bigger and better in the futureOriginally Posted by antinimby
Last edited by GordonGecko; June 4th, 2012 at 12:20 PM. Reason: :nosaeR
Jersey & Queens have a lot of similarities actually. Both have older areas that are somewhat more vibrant and neighborhood-y (you citied Vernon-Jackson) and in JC you have the areas near the Grove Street PATH station.
You also have former industrial areas (both actually on the waterfronts) that are now redeveloped in a sterile manner that does not create any kind of vibrant or interesting neighborhood.
And when did anybody here mentioned rents and NYC popularity?
Rents and NYC popularity are my argument on why these areas in Queens and Brooklyn are growing and will continue to do so. If someone wants to move to New York and can't afford Manhattan, the next best thing is right across the river to the East, not the West.
The developments right on the water are indeed pretty sterile and not too intersting, but if you go inland 3 or 4 blocks it does start to get interesting and it's been getting better every year
Not being in NY....define sterile....I think I know what you mean, as the architecture has no sorta historical look to it, just glass facades?..........but define how the waterfront contrasts from the inland in that area?? and since they are building neighborhoods from scratch I assume on the waterfront, how is it possible for them to make it less sterile....I'm not sure what was there before, but are you suggesting they keep warehouses if they were there intact and sorta integrate with new construction??
The development on the water is sterile for a few reasons, but the biggest being is the enormous size of each buildings base. In Manhattan, unless it was an office tower, at least 2-4 residential buildings would fit on these lots. The giant parking garages and lack of or empty ground floor retail spaces do not help.
I think they only feel sterile to us.... and there may have been a bunch of empty ground floor retail in the past, but that's not the case now. The thing is that this area is all residential, so it's not a 24hr neighborhood. It's very vibrant at 5pm when the weather is nice, and much less so at noon, or at 7pm in the winter.
That said, 5th st is an unfortunate loser in all this. It did not come out pleasant, with almost 10 blocks of non-stop garage frontage on one side of the street, and numerous small to large holes in the ground ready for development on the east side of the street (and for what, to face a garage?), it's ugly. Vernon Blvd and Center Blvd are both incredibly pleasant though. Even so, old habits die hard, and they just built a new halfway house type establishment just north of all this on Vernon, and while it's a fancy, glassy new structure, I do wonder sometimes if that doesn't hurt a little.
Looks like this has finally topped out
DSCN5809 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr
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