I think HBLR is a good name. HUB Rail sounds pretty uncreative to me. '
BTW, PATH isn't NJT. It's part of the Port Authority. Before it was part of PA, it was H&M(Hudson and Manhattan).
PATH=Port Authority Trans Hudson
That's cool.Originally Posted by NIMBYkiller
I just want a name I can freaking pronounce.
Like DART, PATH, MARTA, Loop, whatever. You get my drift.
HBLR is better than names like Hudson Bergen Light Rail or Light Rail, but nobody's using it.
People say "Light Rail" which is another tongue-twister.
Shame.
"Light Rail" is a tongue twister?
Compared to PATH, yeah, sure.
Or compared to DART, BART, El, T, TRAX, LINK - transit system names used in other cities.
We have Hudson Bergen Light Rail. Or Light Rail (great, an improvement!)
Unwieldy, is all I am saying.
How about HudBerg?
Getting back to the discussion further in the thread the Hudson Bergen LR is not going to go up the Northern Branch to Tenafly as originally planned, the Light Rail is going to go to the Meadowlands Sports Complex.
The Northern Branch will see Diesel DMU's that will connect Tenafly with HBLRT, when the new Tunnel for NJ Transit is built the Northern Branch and Tenafly will access NY Penn/34th street via the Secaucus Loop.
With new light rail station, line moves closer to Bergen
Tuesday, October 25, 2005
NJ Transit's light rail system in Hudson County will inch a little farther north this weekend - but it is still a ways off from ringing its trolley bell in Bergen County.
Trains will begin operating on weekends to and from a new Port Imperial station in Weehawken. Weekday commuters won't be able to use the new station until January. Two other stations, including a park-and-ride at Tonnelle Avenue in North Bergen, should also be up and running by mid-January, agency officials said Monday.
Still, Monday's announcement attracted a throng of public officials and Weehawken developers touting the occasion as the start of something big.
"You want to relieve congestion? Get people out of their cars as quickly as you can," state Transportation Commissioner Jack Lettiere said of the new light rail service, part of a $1.2 billion expansion of the line that by January will run from North Bergen to Bayonne. "This gives people an opportunity to do that."
For now, trains will run Saturdays and Sundays every 15 minutes between Hoboken Terminal and the Port Imperial station, across the street from the massive residential development whose name the station bears.
Then, in January, transit expects to open two more stations west of Port Imperial:
ŸA station 160 feet below Bergenline Avenue on the borders of Union City, West New York and North Bergen that NJ Transit officials predict will become the busiest station on the light rail line. Commuters will be shuttled to the sub-Palisades station by three elevators that can make the trip in 20 seconds.
ŸA 750-space park-and-ride station on Tonnelle Avenue in North Bergen, between 49th and 51st Streets.
From those stations, commuters will be able to take the light rail south to Hoboken and there transfer to a Manhattan-bound PATH train or to a Jersey City- and Bayonne-bound light-rail trolley. They also could transfer to Manhattan-bound ferries at Port Imperial.
A one-way trip on light rail is $1.75. Monthly passes cost $53.
"All of these things suggest we're being successful in finding alternatives to sitting in traffic and paying the toll gates," U.S. Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg said.
In the first year of operation, NJ Transit is projecting that 1,200 to 1,300 people will pass through the Port Imperial station each day. And NY Waterway, the ferry operator that has been trying to rebuild the passenger base that bottomed out last year, is hoping to get a significant boost from the expanded light rail service.
By next spring, NY Waterway is expected to complete a new ferry terminal about 1,000 feet from the Port Imperial station. A pedestrian walkway over Port Imperial Boulevard eventually will ease the transfer.
"The whole ferry system is going to be entering a new era," said NY Waterway founder Arthur E. Imperatore Sr., who on Monday also inaugurated a terminal at Manhattan's 39th Street, doubling the capacity for ferry operations in midtown.
Eventually, NJ Transit plans to extend the light rail system west to the Meadowlands, terminating at the sports complex. Hudson County officials have been pressing for that extension to provide easy access to residents seeking jobs at the planned Xanadu shopping and entertainment development there.
The state Sports and Exposition Authority, which runs the sports complex, commissioned a study this year of the potential extension.
Originally, the light rail line was supposed to head north into Bergen County, along the old Northern Railroad line. But a $1 billion price tag, and a shifting of priorities toward a new $6 billion commuter rail tunnel under the Hudson River, killed that plan.
Instead, NJ Transit is promising a temporary rail shuttle from Tenafly to North Bergen, where riders could transfer to the light rail line. An environmental study of that line is under way.
Ultimately, the new tunnel would allow NJ Transit to convert the Tenafly shuttle into a full-fledged commuter rail line that would give eastern Bergen County a one-stop ride into Manhattan.
From another article
NJT Plans Bergen Rail Line To Midtown
NJ Transit
(NEWARK) NJ Transit is planning passenger rail service along a freight line in Bergen County.
The Northern Branch line between Tenafly and North Bergen would eventually let commuters ride into midtown Manhattan once a new trans-Hudson tunnel is complete.
The agency's board of directors approved environmental and planning work today.
The Northern Branch would use existing freight tracks owned by CSX Transportation, and would include self-propelled diesel rail cars.
In its first phase, the cars would connect Northern Branch riders with the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail system in North Bergen. The second phase calls for the Northern Branch to be linked to the new Trans-Hudson Express tunnel deep within the Palisades.
wow...talked about having my ass handed to me. I appoligize. I had not heard of ANY of that at all except for MAYBE sending HBLR to the Meadowlands. The closest thing to that that I had heard about DMU service was they were thinking of doing DMU from Tonelle Av to Patterson instead of an HBLR extension.
Personally, I think the new plan is really idiotic. And I don't understand how the cost Northern Branch can run so high. The tracks are there and in good condition I believe. It's all at or above ground level. It just doesn't make sense to me.
And the Secaucus Loop is absolutely the biggest waste I have heard of in a LONG time. The max speed that loop will have a chance of seeing is 45mph, and even that is really pushing it with the loop being really long, which means it'll take a good amount of time to complete and send the train through Secaucus Transfer station twice. Also, it makes all the money spent on the station a complete waste.
They should look into a way to extend NJT to downtown Manhattan via either Hoboken or Jersey City. That way the Northern lines that currently have Hoboken service only can run to Manhattan and serve a new area(maybe even 2 areas if via Jersey City) at the same time.
The Light Rail runs on different type of tracks ands needs to be Electrified, having DMUs operate the line allows for the eventual direct link to Manhattan.
if they had the Northern Branch as Light Rail they would need to spend Billions to bring it up to Light Rail standards only to turn around in 10 years to spend Billions to tear down the Light Rail infastructure to revert the line to heavy rail standards to allow direct service to Manhattan.
They want the Bergen County Lines to have direct access to the new 34th Street station in Manhattan, thus Northern Branch and eventually West Shore will be heavy rail.
As for Lower Manhattan, that's what the PATH is for.
Actually, light rail CAN run on heavy rail. Heavy rail just can't run on light rail. That's why on some light rail lines, the light rail service is only during the day. At night, they use the tracks for freight service. So that eliminates those billions of dollars that you thought would have to be spent to convert and revert the entire line.
And light rail does not need to be electrified, but HBLR is. The RiverLine running from Camden to Trenton is DMU light rail. And speaking of DMU, DMUs can NOT operate into Manhattan. The only way they can do that is if it becomes dual mode, in which case it is no longer a DMU. Only electric service is allowed in the tunnels.
And this new 34th St station? It's just a lower level of Penn Station, which still means that the trains have to waste time going around the Secaucus Loop(which will be very hard to build now) and then go to Penn Station via a new Hudson River tunnel. Also, the West Shore was always planned to be heavy rail. The Northern Branch was only recently suggested to be heavy rail, which I think is a horrible idea. Take a look at the map. The two lines are very close to each other. This isn't Manhattan where you need a train every block. It will be a waste to have two heavy rail services so close to each other.
And I know that people can just transfer to PATH, as well as NY Waterway. I just think that if they are trying to get a new Hudson River crossing, then they have the opportunity to serve a new area and make a lot of peoples commute a lot easier, which will probably bring more riders in.
Several questions, for people who obviously know more than me:
1. Now that HBLR is turning west to the Meadowlands, would it be physically possible to link it someday with the Newark City Subway? They seem to use the same standards, and this would link give Northern NJ a chance at a unifed light rail network.
2. I understand that PATH uses IRT standards. Interagency conflicts aside, is it possible in theory to link the uptown PATH with the 7 train, and the WTC PATH with the 6 train? Assuming, of course, the MTA has future plans to extend the 7 train to 34th and 11th, then looped it back to Penn Station and Herald Square, and a link could be made between the WTC path terminal and the Brooklyn-Bridge City Hall 6 train station.
Maybe these ideas are a bit loopy but it seems some commuters really hate transfers.
Yes, Newark City Subway and HBLR are the same standards, so yes, they can physically link together. I actually have a map drawn out on my computer that shows my ideas for expansion that ends up combining NCS and HBLR.
As for PATH, I know the PATH-Lex idea has been thrown around a lot, and physically, it is possible. As for the 7 and PATH, that would take bulldozing the entire mezzanine of Herald Square station. Also, the 7 should just run down the west side to WTC instead of going back east via 34th.
Now THAT would be great for downtown. Could you imagine, a one stop ride to Newark Airport using the 6 train? Extending the PATH to Newark Airport would be easy ($500 million estimate) and should have been done already. Then it would be a matter of linking the WTC PATH station to Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall, and they are working on a new WTC station anyway.
I don't understand why the 7 train should be turned downtown. It would cost a ton of money and there seems to be plenty of capacity on the downtown express trains which leave from Times Square. Plus the Westside is pretty well covered starting at 23rd street heading downtown.
Anyway, steering the conversation back to light rail, it would be really nice to see a dense network of light rail in Northern NJ, especially since NJ is interested in developing the Meadowlands. Someday they should build a 42nd light rail, and send it over the Hudson to link with the HBLR. But that would cost a fortune unless you steal a tunnel from the Lincoln Tunnel. That idea has actually been pushed by the 42nd light rail folks.
Also, on the East River side it should extend into Queens. We need a European level of taxation.
The Westside Ave. Light Rail stop is only 8 blocks from my house and I have long thought of NJ Transit extending it through Westside Ave., where the Westside Line currently ends, to NJ 440 then across the Hackensack River where there is an old Jersey Central Bridge that they can rebuild and cross over Kearny, then into Newark through the Ironbound and end at Penn Station. It would def ease up the crowds on the PATH trains. NIMBYkiller if u can send me ur renderings for possible extensions over to Newark. PM me if you would like.
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