Reply With Quote^ The Odeon Cafe, West Broadway, Tribeca.
An institution.
On my last visit to NY a group of 8 of us went to the Gotham Bar & Grill, really impressed, great food!
Blue Water Grill, didn't like. Sat upstairs, cramped, poor service, and later, back at the hotel I felt ill.
Union Square Cafe - great, had the best rack of lamb ever!
Candela's - went on a quiet night, only half-full, food ok.
Anyone got any thoughts on Tribecca Grill, or indeed any others.
^ The Odeon Cafe, West Broadway, Tribeca.
An institution.
I love the Odeon, but the food really isn't the best. It's a must for all fans of the 80s lit Brat Pack, though.
Just added Docks Oyster Bar East to my site.. really enjoyed it friday night.
http://www.realityimpaired.net
Apologies if this has been said anywhere else...
im looking for a "typical " american diner that does a good new york breakfast near-ish times square.
This is a great comparison between LA and NY restaurants and culture...
The Taste Of the West
BY JENNIFER LEUZZI
January 17, 2007
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/46808
"All cities are B cities compared to New York," chef Mario Batali said.
Yet Mr. Batali opened a restaurant in Los Angeles after finding success with Babbo and other Italian restaurants in New York. He opened Mozza, an outpost of his casual downtown spot Otto, in November in Los Angeles. He said the main reason he opened Mozza was to collaborate with his friend and business partner, Los Angeles chef Nancy Silverton.
Mr. Batali is not the only chef to be lured to Los Angeles in recent years. Chefs Tom Coliccio, Laurent Tourondel, and Gordon Ramsay have all said they plan to open L.A. outposts this year. Meanwhile, chef Masa Takayama relocated his restaurant Ginza Sushi-ko from Beverly Hills to Columbus Circle, renaming it Masa.
The differences between the cities are in the details. Jeffrey Chodorow has an Asia de Cuba in both cites. Though both earn $12 million a year, check averages are higher in Los Angeles. The L.A. restaurant is only busy on the weekend, while New York is bustling six days a week. In New York, Masa serves more sushi and fewer cooked preparations than in Los Angeles. Mr. Takayama said New Yorkers eat faster and don't socialize with their neighbors at the counter.
Car culture and geography have a great impact on Los Angeles dining. "I'd heard about it, but who knew?" Mr. Batali said. At Mozza, wine sales are about 30% less than at Otto, which Mr. Batali attributes to the fact that 80% of his California customers drive to the restaurant. Cheap valet parking is mandatory. "I remember the uproar when Spago raised valet to $6," Mr. Chodorow said. "In New York City that's like a tip!"
Los Angeles is so sprawling that a restaurant is less likely to draw diners from outside its immediate neighborhood. "In New York, TriBeCa residents can get excited about a mid-level opening in Park Slope, but in L.A. this happens much less frequently," the founding editor of the widely read restaurant blogs Eater and EaterLA, Ben Leventhal, said. "Especially since driving is so unavoidable, the focus there is on your neighborhood."
Easy travel and the increase in bicoastal careers have created a national customer base for the restaurant business. Mr. Batali said 30% of the clientele at Mozza also regularly eat at Otto. Mr. Takayama still has weekly regulars at Masa who live in Los Angeles, and Mr. Chodorow said he often sees the same people on both coasts.
Sometimes the same formula works in both cities. Michael McCarty has been running a restaurant on each coast since 1988, when he opened Michael's in Midtown. The original Michael's opened in Santa Monica in 1979. He typically spends 10 days on the West Coast and four days here. "They're like fraternal twins," Mr. McCarty said of his restaurants. "They look, sound, and feel the same, but have separate personalities."
The top food ranking in the latest Zagat restaurant survey of Los Angeles is held by Matsuhisa, Nobu Matsuhisa's first restaurant. Here, it's the French seafood palace Le Bernardin. Mr. Matsuhisa has held one of the top two spots for the past 10 years in L.A., while high-end European restaurants are rare there. "There are no French restaurants left in L.A.," columnist and contributing editor at Gourmet magazine, Colman Andrews, said. "It just doesn't interest people."
In the December issue of Gourmet, Mr. Andrews wrote about the closing of the last great French restaurant in Los Angeles, L'Orangerie, comparing it with the reopening of Le Cirque in New York. After 28 years in Los Angeles, the proprietors of L'Orangerie, Gérard and Virginie Ferry, decided to sell the restaurant, acknowledging that fine and formal were no longer what people wanted. It was purchased by Mr. Matsuhisa and Robert De Niro and will reopen in drastically different form this spring.
Los Angelenos want comfort more than formality. "Even though it's changing, in New York there's still a dress code," Mr. Andrews said. In Los Angeles, "there are people who spend more on a pair of jeans than a suit. It's not a question of money."
In an interesting twist, L'Orangerie chef Christophe Bellanca is the newest staff member at Le Cirque. He said the difference between the two restaurants is that everything about Le Cirque is bigger: It has five times the number of seats, more critics to please, and a clientele with a more sophisticated palate. And for a French chef, the possibility of Michelin stars is hard to resist. The French guidebook has yet to rate restaurants in L.A.
"New York has special meaning to people," Mr. Andrews said. "It's still the big city." Success here begets success elsewhere. In New York, Mr. Takayama was able to create a second restaurant, Bar Masa, which he said he may expand its operation to London and Las Vegas, which his success in California would not necessarily have led to. It seems the restaurant industry in New York is bigger and better — for now. "They are the two most important cities in the country. New York faces Europe, and Los Angeles faces Asia," the founder and publisher of the Zagat Survey, Tim Zagat, said. "With Asia's growing power, from China and the region, L.A. will eventually become the number one city in 20 to 25 years."
The Westway Diner on Ninth Avenue.Originally Posted by fairy1
What exactly does this mean?
He's saying that he thinks LA will overtake NY in global significance in 20-25 years because of its proximity to China.
I thought it was a provocative statement, but it is from a guy who sells restaurant guides. He is based in NY and has a strong following here already, so is it posturing for LA? Maybe.
Either way, it would take an amazing change in Los Angeles population, banking power, and more for it to surpass NY.
It means that he is very optimistic about progress in Los Angeles and in China.
That stands for LA. I hate LA. But San Franciso has the highest overall average Zagats rating and I would bet it has more concentration of French Restaurants and French influence than NYC. I would say instead of NYC delis, you will find crepe places with salads, sandwiches, and breakfist foods. I would say about half of the restaurants in a majority of the neighborhoods in San Francisco are either French or have strong French influence. Also, most people do not drive to these restaurants. It is much more like NYC in this sense. In San Franciso, the restuaruant culture is fresh local ingredients (just picked or just caught and organic is what they all try to do to a large extent). There are also alot of sophisticated restaurants too. Per Se was opened up by a Chef who lives and works in the the Bay Area.
SF has great restaurants, you are correct. However this article was a comparison on not only cuisine but culture and global significance of each city.
NY has 14,590 restaurants as of 2002 (Census), SF has 4,375 (SFCVB). The quality of restaurants in SF is, on average, probably higher. But that would only be because NY is huge comparatively and the demographics in SF are less skewed. There is no competition when it comes to diversity of the cuisine itself, NY wins out easily.
Well, if we want to compare the restaurant scene of NYC and San Francisco,here is my take. I'm a real big foodie!
First, these two cities have the most interesting dining scenes in the country. They have some similarities, but they also have some differences.
NYC is alot about scene and being scene. Also, many chef's in NYC come from abroad, and frequently, well known chefs will open up their first US based restaurant in NYC. The chef's use sophisticated techniques and sauces. It's about big business. There is more fame and glamour to be found in NYC. New York is about attitude. A true New Yorker believes nothing compares to New York.
I will tell you more about San Francisco now that I live there. It is less about the scene, and more about fresh quality and healthy ingredients. The climate in this region (which is similar to Italy and southern france) accounts for the nations tastiest produce wines, and olive oils. This is also where the whole organic scene started. Much of the meet meat used is organic and from grass fed animals, and most of the seafood is wild and not farm raised. The majority of supermarkets and coffee shops out in the san francisco neighborhoods (outiside tourist trap junk food traps) are mostly organic. Neighborhoods have held protests when a starbucks tries to open a new branch. Some of the best restaurants in this area are outside of san francisco, especially in Napa Valley region. In wine country, the meats and vegtables are farmed raised, and the produce is picked just before being used for cooking. It is similar to Lyon, France.
In regard to the census you mentioned, NYC includes the 5 boroughs and this includes over 300 square miles in comparison to San Francisco's is 47 square miles. Manhattan is only 23 square miles, although it has a higher concerntration of restaurnats and this is where most of the best known restaurants are.
In regard to the diversity, I don't really see much of a gap. Within 10 blocks of where I live, I can find, French places, Japan Town (which includes Japanese French fusion), Little Saigon, Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern Fusion, Italian, Pan Asian, Mexican (you get more authentic mexican food here), chinese, African French fusion, Californian, Steakhouses, Prime Rib Houses, Seafood places, Organic Wild Game restaurants, High End French, Crepe houses, Chocolate cafes, great Thai Places, Peruvian French Fusion, English Tea houses, regular tea cafes, many wine bar cafes, bagel cafes, etc. There is even a place called the East Coast West Coast Deli with Fresh made Pastrami within 5 blocks from me. And there is even a place called Escape from New York Pizza.
Well, if we want to compare the restaurant scene of NYC and San Francisco,here is my take. I'm a real big foodie!
First, these two cities have the most interesting dining scenes in the country. They have some similarities, but they also have some differences.
NYC is alot about scene and being scene. Also, many chef's in NYC come from abroad, and frequently, well known chefs will open up their first US based restaurant in NYC. The chef's use sophisticated techniques and sauces. It's about big business. There is more fame and glamour to be found in NYC. New York is about attitude. A true New Yorker believes nothing compares to New York.
I will tell you more about San Francisco now that I live there. It is less about the scene, and more about fresh quality and healthy ingredients. The climate in this region (which is similar to Italy and southern france) accounts for the nations tastiest produce wines, and olive oils. This is also where the whole organic scene started. Much of the meet meat used is organic and from grass fed animals, and most of the seafood is wild and not farm raised. The majority of supermarkets and coffee shops out in the san francisco neighborhoods (outiside tourist trap junk food traps) are mostly organic. Neighborhoods have held protests when a starbucks tries to open a new branch. Some of the best restaurants in this area are outside of san francisco, especially in Napa Valley region. In wine country, the meats and vegtables are farmed raised, and the produce is picked just before being used for cooking. It is similar to Lyon, France.
In regard to the census you mentioned, NYC includes the 5 boroughs and this includes over 300 square miles in comparison to San Francisco's is 47 square miles. Manhattan is only 23 square miles, although it has a higher concerntration of restaurnats and this is where most of the best known restaurants are.
In regard to the diversity, I don't really see much of a gap. Within 10 blocks of where I live, I can find, French places, Japan Town (which includes Japanese French fusion), Little Saigon, Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern Fusion, Italian, Pan Asian, Mexican (you get more authentic mexican food here), chinese, African French fusion, Californian, Steakhouses, Prime Rib Houses, Seafood places, Organic Wild Game restaurants, High End French, Crepe houses, Chocolate cafes, great Thai Places, Peruvian French Fusion, English Tea houses, regular tea cafes, many wine bar cafes, bagel cafes, etc. There is even a place called the East Coast West Coast Deli with Fresh made Pastrami within 5 blocks from me. And there is even a place called Escape from New York Pizza.
For some restaurants, yes. Del Posto, Morimoto, Nobu in midtown: these are all restaurants that fit what you are talking about. But NY is much more dynamic than that. There are many different restaurants for the many different customers here. For instance, I am into restaurants that fit into shoeboxes with different cuisine. There are many downtown where I live. There are many restaurants with the one-main-dish style like dumplings, arepas, empanadas, non-mexican burritos. There are just too many neighborhoods and too many restaurants (and too little time and money) to visit them all.
Here as well, but probably less on average than SF which has a much more finicky public overall. These places are abundant here but not 'required' because for every customer who places a high value on organic/health food there are 10 customers who will overlook/don't care.
But we're talking about the city itself. NY's immediate region has no Napa/Sonoma nor the mega-farms with ideal weather, but it has pockets of local producers that supply the high-end chefs.
This is not necessarily a plus in my opinion and points to the power of the finicky there that is as much of a hinderance as it is a positive. NY has the idealism of SF but it's "check" is the power of money.
Again, we're talking about the cities themselves.
A good reason why this comparison is apples-oranges. But its Saturday, so I have the time.
There is a very good restaurant diversity in SF. But here, a Peruvian restaurant is owned, operated, staffed (and visited) by Peruvians.
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