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Thread: Manhattan West Project - Brookfield

  1. #196
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    That is simply a wide sidewalk.

    Doubt the world will come to an end due to something like that.

  2. #197
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Thank you Derek.

    That plaza looks to be wider than even Ninth Ave. itself.

  3. #198

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    The plaza looks horrible, trees placed arbitrarily on the render. and huge.

  4. #199
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    What would be preferable?

    A connected base encompassing the full extent of the two-block site with the two towers rising above?

    That was the solution at TW / Columbus Circle.

  5. #200

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    You said the plaza was where the street would be. Why not have a street?

  6. #201

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    Isn't there practically no chance that this will be built in this environment? Notwithstanding Conde Naste's alleged interest, isn't it supposed to cost nearly $1b to build the platform? Who will finance that?

    Arguing about these buildings is like arguing about who Ralph Nader will appoint to his cabinet when he's elected president. Something probably will be built there within the next 10 or 20 years, but probably not these towers.

  7. #202
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    You said the plaza was where the street would be. Why not have a street?
    Look at the site.

    32nd Street hasn't existed through those blocks for years -- not since the rail tracks to Penn Station were laid in what is now Hudson Yards

    To the east of the site is Farley / MSG (which run from 33rd <> 31st). 32nd Street starts up again at 7th Avenue and then runs to the east.

    There is no 32nd Street running west from 7th Avenue.

    The west end of the Brookfield block(s) butts up against the big brutalist Westyard Distribution Center (1970) which sits over the rail tracks from 31 <> 33 along 10th Avenue. (Funny how they barely show that hulk in the renders.)

    Here's what the WDC looks like from the SW / other side of the site:


    forgotten ny

    This is my main problem with open space between the towers (as opposed to open space along 9th, which to me makes sense for this project). That open space between the towers will face onto 16-stories / ~ 200' of the concrete east facade of the WDC.

    This is why IMO the space around these two towers works for this specific site.

  8. #203
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    That was the solution at TW / Columbus Circle.
    And it works remarkably well. However, that is just one way to solve the problem, there are others.

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    This is why IMO the space around these two towers works for this specific site.
    I actually don't have a problem with the extra space between the towers, it's the space on Ninth that will ultimately hurt the ability of this block to engage the pedestrian, the passersby.

    You are one of those that love wider sidewalks but you don't seem to realize that there's a big difference between wider sidewalks and a plaza.

    The other important thing that I've (and Derek) have said already, is that the ground level should be mixed use, i.e. retail, shops, entertainment, museum, art galleries, etc. It shouldn't just be a damn huge office entrance lobby.

    This area of Ninth is pretty much dead during most of the day anyway and when you here have a chance to redevelop this huge block, it should be done right, not backwards 1960's era type of design.

  9. #204
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Once Farley is redeveloped then it's far less likely that Ninth in front of these two new towers will remain dead.

    In the future some open space along Ninth at 33rd will serve well (look at the space in front of the Time Life Building on Sixth Avenue with the fountain -- that's a good solution for a large tower on an avenue).

    It's important to look 10 - 20 + years down the road on this.

  10. #205

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    Quite street is better than empty 'plaza'. The 'plaza' is nothing more than a leftover thought.

  11. #206
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Seems the plaza in front of Time Life Building is often chock full of folks.

    Butting everything right up against the sidewalk line is not always the best way to go.

  12. #207

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    Is there any reason for anyone to be in this plaza unless they work in the two towers?

  13. #208

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    Probably not, but the plaza is probably attractive to tenants, which matters most to Brookfield.
    At least it faces a beautiful low building, so it won't be in complete darkness all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter
    That open space between the towers will face onto 16-stories / ~ 200' of the concrete east facade of the WDC.
    Well looking far down the line, that Westyard building got an incredible zoning increase in the last rezoning so the owners could tear town the building and build two large towers with a passageway in between (like this project).

  14. #209
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I'm all for that ^

    Question about the Brookfield towers (and others proposed to go up on platforms over the rail tracks):

    On these projects it seems there well be no room for any part of the usable structure to be situated below street level (it's all track area down there) so none of these buildings will have basements, sub-basements, etc. where normally all sorts of building systems are located.

    How are the architects / developers dealing with this limitation? Are we going to be getting structures (akin to 7WTC) where systems are raised up a few floors above the lobby areas?

  15. #210

    Default Lobby rendering

    From NYGuy Skyscraperpage, I found this image of the lobby.(I'm still a little new, sorry I had to make it a link)
    http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/104932859/large.jpg

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