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Thread: Manhattan West Project - Brookfield

  1. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCity2 View Post
    I'm sure it will, it won't take that long to find tenants.
    You could be right, but you're only guessing. One year ago, someone was sure that 3WTC construction would start last September.

    The reality is that, while 1WTC is almost complete, it's 45% vacant. 3WTC would go up before 2WTC to unlock funding.

    Meanwhile, this project and Hudson Yards will be moving along, and the Midtown East rezoning will have completed ULURP. All competition for the WTC.

  2. #287

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    a walk around the Brookfield site from the north east end of the site from 9th,
    to the south end of the site at 31st and Dyer Ave.









  3. #288

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    These towers are lousy. I would much rather see tenants go to 200 Greenwich. Also, who would want to work in this dump? HY is a full city within a city? This area, by contrast, is just a stand alone slum.

  4. #289
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    Sounds very chicken and egg to me. Wouldn't this be a nice neighborhood if this was built? Also, as it's only 1 long block from the 8th Ave line (and Penn Station), it certainly has good transit access. I rode under this on the way out to and back from Philly over the weekend, and the whole temporary platform is up with part of the gantry crane already assembled on it. It will be interesting to no longer see sunlight from Penn Station all the way to New Jersey once this is done. Based on the post tension construction of the platform, it shouldn't take long to build once the footings are in.

    Of note, this spot is much more valuable than 2WTC. Getting people downtown (and specifically into the WTC site) is notably more challenging than midtown.

  5. #290

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    ^
    I agree.

    You could make the same argument about the WTC site based on what it is at the moment, instead of the final version.

    This site will be across the street from a renovated Farley Annex entrance on 9th, and one block away from the hub. If it wasn't valuable, no one would spend money to build the platform over the tracks.

  6. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
    Sounds very chicken and egg to me. Wouldn't this be a nice neighborhood if this was built?... Of note, this spot is much more valuable than 2WTC. Getting people downtown (and specifically into the WTC site) is notably more challenging than midtown.
    It would still be a dump, whether these are built or not.

    Getting to the WTC is very easy from GCT.

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  8. #293
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    It would still be a dump, whether these are built or not.

    Getting to the WTC is very easy from GCT.
    Sure if you're starting your trip at GCT it's easy, but nobody likes paying 250+ a month for their monthly MNR pass and then again for a subway. Nor does anyone like riding what is a mildly civilized train, only to wait on the subway platforms for an overly crowded train that takes another 20 minutes. There's very little residential around GCT, and there's a reason for it. Residential is wildly more profitable almost everywhere in the city but there. In fact, if 2WTC were residential, there wouldn't be all this hemming and hawing about building it. It would just be going up. Even this set of towers (Brookfield Place), is now going to have a huge residential component. Once 30th st is fixed up back here (redone tunnel approaches with some greenspace) this area will be fine. 9th ave already has a wonderful protected bike lane, and one of my favorite restaurants in the city is only a few blocks from here. Considering the high line is also only a block away, it would be hard to point to better real estate than this spot that isn't already MSG or the post office.

  9. #294

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    While I disagree with LL about the Manhattan West neighborhood, I find it curious that whenever GCT is mentioned, it's assumed that the bulk of commuters arrive at the CBD via the railroad. That's been at odds with the data for some time, and more so over the last decade.

    More than two thirds of Manhattan workers live in New York City as of 2009.
    The number of Manhattan commuters from the Hudson Valley and Long Island has either stagnated, or declined from 2002 to 2009. However, inner ring suburbs such as Westchester, Rockland, and Nassau counties have experienced faster rates of decline in Manhattan workers than areas farther to the north and east.
    Three-fourths of all commutes to Manhattan were taken primarily by public transit, and only 11% of all commuters drive single occupancy vehicles to work. . Subway commutes accounted for half of all commutes to Manhattan in 2009, while other mass transit modes such as commuter rail, buses, and ferries accounted for one-fourth of all commutes.
    Source: http://wagner.nyu.edu/files/faculty/...nCommuting.pdf

  10. #295
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post

    In fact, if 2WTC were residential, there wouldn't be all this hemming and hawing about building it. It would just be going up.
    Don't know about that. 1 block from 2WTC is a huge hole that's been waiting for years to start a major residential tower: 99 Church

    Silverstein claims it will start to go up this fall (and DOB filings show a July 3 Fee Resolution which includes a change of plans, including "REVISED DRAWINGS SHOWING INCREASE IN SIZE OF BUILDING").

  11. #296
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    99 Church is sort of a unique mixed use situation. Not only is it a hotel, but it's also, supposedly, super high end. Competing with the likes of One57, 432 Park, and 56 Leonard, but without any of the cache of their locations. I think if 2WTC were a rental, roughly similar to Silverstein's own Silver Towers (which almost have to be wildly profitable), I am sure it would be happening just fine. Although one has to wonder what the demand for living at the WTC would be. It might not be the most comfortable idea, but who knows?

  12. #297
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    If the crowds today all around the WTC site are any indication this area is going to be buzzing 24/7 in the near future (during the warmer months, anyway).

    Once tenants start occupying the WTC towers, and even more residents start moving into the area, night time uses of all sorts will follow.

    Not the neighborhood I'd choose to live in, but for many (particularly those who work nearby) it'll be just what the doctor ordered.

  13. #298

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    I agree. There will be a lot of retail between the new WTC and the revamped WFC, let alone the new Fulton Street Center. Many residential towers are planned for the area. Also, the medians on West St will connect the beautiful, park-lined waterfront to the rest of the Financial District.

    Pardon my bluntness, but 9th Ave in the 30s, by contrast, is a grimy dump. It's like the Lincoln Tunnel's anus and all of those roadways between 11th, Dyer, and 9th are like feces-filled intestines. Brookfield's proposed towers are crap, and the area is worse than crap.

  14. #299

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    I guess you'll shut up when it's leased.

  15. #300

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    When it gets tenants in 20 years, the area will be transformed. I highly doubt that Brookfield will lease over 5m sf anytime soon. 1 Vanderbilt, the HY North Tower, 1, 2, and 3 WTC, 50 Astor Pl, 7 Bryant Park, the Girasole, One Hudson Yards, and 425 Park Ave are allmuch nicer. For that matter Vornado could revive 15 Penn which is also nicer than the Lincoln Tunnel's bowels.

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