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Thread: London's Congestion Charge Two Years On

  1. #91

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    Firstly the CC is probably going to rise to £10 ($18) by 2008.

    Secondly the CC is going to expand westwards to cover all of the City of Westminster and the Royal Borogh of Kensington & Chelsea. This will come into effect on 19th February 2007. This will nearly double the coverage of the area, but also ensnare around another 0.25mn residents (not many people live in Central London, but do in the surrounding areas). This will be done by essentially shifting the goal posts of the cameras to be redistributed around the expanded CC area.

    Thrdly, expansion around London Heathrow Airport is probable. This would require the building of AirTrack (a new railway line linking up to London Waterloo) and Crossrail which should be built by 2013. A new rail line out to Reading could also be built essentially meaning Heathrow could have multiple railway services despite not actually being on a mainline.

    Lastly, the prospect of a national CC is good. Needs planning, but this would be the best way to ensure people would opt for public transport above the car in most instances (due to the variable usage pricing).

  2. #92

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    Mayor Livingstone wants to bring in an improved CC that cuts out those who drive poor-emission producing cars and suggested that 'Chelsea Tractors' should be ordered to pay a whopping £25 for each journey into and in the CC. Thats around $46 at current rates.

  3. #93

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    What's a Chelsea Tractor?

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc
    What's a Chelsea Tractor?
    SUVs.

  5. #95

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    Around 3 months and the CC gets its Western Expansion into Kensington & Chelsea. Work is also proceeding on the Heathrow Congestion Charge which combined with the worlds first Personal Rapid Transit system, should fund for the new Airtrack heavy rail link lines that will connect Heathrow up to various areas of London.




    Quote Originally Posted by nick-taylor View Post
    The Western Extension of the Central London Congestion Charge: to come into force 19th February 2007









  6. #96
    Senior Member Capn_Birdseye's Avatar
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    You've convinced me Nick that you're one of the Green fascists blighting our life in the UK, who see "extra tax" as the answer to everything. All stick no carrot, its people like you that will destroy our society in a vain attempt to change the course of Nature. Debate with the likes of you is impossible and not worth the effort!

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick-taylor View Post
    Mayor Livingstone wants to bring in an improved CC that cuts out those who drive poor-emission producing cars and suggested that 'Chelsea Tractors' should be ordered to pay a whopping £25 for each journey into and in the CC. Thats around $46 at current rates.

    Conceptually, the CC (monetary rationing of a finite good, road time-space) makes sense. The implementation has been very poor though, and the impact on congestion is very debatable.

    - For a CC to work it has to provide a very real disincentive to driving
    through and at peak times. The charge is probably too low and it should be more circumscribed in time.

    - The area is way too small, encouraging people to still drive and just skirt it.
    - It gives a huge discount to those who least need it, people who live in Central London (they are central, with ample public transport, most weekdays they don't have far to go and they are, as a rule, the richest people in Europe....).

    > I think something in the order of 15-20 GBP would be a bigger disincentive. Possibly just from 6:30 AM to 11:00 AM. Covering out to all of zones 1 and 2 and with absolutely, positively, no residents' discount.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn_Birdseye View Post
    You've convinced me Nick that you're one of the Green fascists blighting our life in the UK, who see "extra tax" as the answer to everything. All stick no carrot, its people like you that will destroy our society in a vain attempt to change the course of Nature. Debate with the likes of you is impossible and not worth the effort!
    Forgive me then for supporting:
    - A lower number of accidents
    - A more pleasurable pedestrianised area for theatre-goers, nights out, shoppers, residents and businessmen.
    - A more efficient transport network that is faster, more accessible and more fluid through Central London
    - For giving added protection to Londons' buildings from the grime that has only just been cleaned off St Pauls (to great expense)
    - Increasing investment into new business, retail and cultural institutions in Central London thanks to congestion being dramatically reduced

    If that makes me a green fascist, then I dread to envision exactly what you support because it must be the opposite, ie congestion, less investment, less business, poorer transport, more accidents, detroyed monuments and buildings, etc....

    And the reason debate is impossible with me is because I'm right. You can't find a reason around why the CC is wrong - it has brought benefits to everyone and is something that should spread to the rest of the UK to cut on congestion, increase standards of living, open up our urban areas, increase inward investment, and increase puiblic transport usage. I'd say that Southampton needs one too what with the stupid level of car usage and horrific traffic jams - infact Southampton and Portsmouth really ought to have a metro line running between and in both cities.




    Luca - I think that the CC was essentially a trial, and the increase in price and now the increase in area is a good step forward. It will take time, but I suspect that by 2020, large swathes of London will be within CC zones.

    Also some of the poorest people in London actually live in Kensington (towards White City), which is indeed rather ironic considering the immense wealth. Eitherway, they'd still pay it and it would be exceptionally expensive to isolate small pockets to vary 'rates' on them.

  9. #99
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn_Birdseye View Post

    ... a vain attempt to change the course of Nature.
    Oh, so cars + traffic are a natural occurence?

    Kind of like flowers and seagulls, eh?

  10. #100
    Senior Member Capn_Birdseye's Avatar
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    It's interesting to note that when the people are given the opportunity to vote on the subject, as they were in Edinburgh, they gave a resounding NO to congestion charges!

    Perhaps this is why the Green zealots stifle democratic debate on the issue, they want to impose their will on the people because in their arrogant little totalitarian minds they think they know best!


    http://www.no-congestion-charge.com/

  11. #101

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    I will never live in a city where you dont feel safe in a herd of pedestrians. Even though Hong Kong, NYC have a lot of cars - the pedestrians far outnumber them.

    It really makes life easier.

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn_Birdseye View Post
    It's interesting to note that when the people are given the opportunity to vote on the subject, as they were in Edinburgh, they gave a resounding NO to congestion charges!

    Perhaps this is why the Green zealots stifle democratic debate on the issue, they want to impose their will on the people because in their arrogant little totalitarian minds they think they know best!
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    --Edmund Burke

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    --Edmund Burke
    America in in years prior to WWII was an isolationist country, Congress having passed several Neutrality Acts, which FDR circumvented.

    In a 1940 campaign speech, FDR promised
    Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign war.
    Sixty six years ago today, the American electorate voted FDR a third term as president.

    Afterward, he continued acting with the realization that US involvement was inevitable, instituting Lend Lease.

    I wonder what sort of voting any of us would be doing today if FDR didn't rely on his own judgement.

  14. #104

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    ^ A perfect illustration of the truth of Burke's dictum.

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn_Birdseye View Post
    It's interesting to note that when the people are given the opportunity to vote on the subject, as they were in Edinburgh, they gave a resounding NO to congestion charges!

    Perhaps this is why the Green zealots stifle democratic debate on the issue, they want to impose their will on the people because in their arrogant little totalitarian minds they think they know best!

    http://www.no-congestion-charge.com/
    And more pity them. Edinburgh will continue to drown in crowded roads. The number of accidents will increase as there is less safe space for shoppers to cross (so people will stay away) meaning retail will in the long-term diminish, house properties will have their values retarded compared to other UK cities by the increases in car pollution (atmospheric and sound), the inability to get anywhere because of the sheer volume of traffic and the risk of being run down. Businesses who can't get their employees to work will abandon Edinburgh for cities which have properly managed their congestion and provided alternatives. External investors will void Edinburgh simply because other companies are bailing (ie loss in knowledge economy and talent) and because conditions are simply more attractive elsewhere.

    The unfortunate thing is, give it a few years and everyone in Edinburgh will be regretting it and they will have only themselves to blame when next-door Glasgow is going much more for transport. If you want to be around making money in the long-term then some sacrafices have to made in the short-term its as simple as that. Thats if they haven't moved from Edinburgh because of all the mentioned problems...

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