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Thread: NYC: Capital of the World?

  1. #31

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    Definition of the word "capital" :

    a. A town or city that is the official seat of government in a political entity, such as a state or nation.


    If any city can make the claim to being the capital of the world itīs Washington DC, not NY or London. Whether we like it or not, the decisions that happen in Washington have the greatest impact on lives around the world.

    Many other cities though, set trends in specific areas. What cities are the capital of fashion, design, architecture etc....in that sense, I think there are many "capitals of the world".

    But for the overall big picture: itīs Washington DC.

  2. #32

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    New York City will continue to grow.. you cannot forget that New York has a huge metropolitian area with over 22 million people (2005) and that number is rapidly growing. In comparison London is much smaller with 12.5 million people. (wikipedia). I very much doubt that London will overtake New York in population. New York's population growth is only accelerating anyway. Now... lets be serious. We are talking about capitol in the context of global city. Which city has the most influence around the globe, New York or Washington.. London or Washington. New York is the centre of American culture, media, economics, and a large portions of its politics. Consider this, the capitol of a nation or a state, is often not it;s most important city. What is the capitol of New York State, or California? Often capitols such a such as Washington DC are planned to take power away from a specific metropolis such as New York. (the capitol was originally in nyc). Political decisions in New York are made in Albany, however that does not mean that Albany is more important than New York. However, just because the political centre is in Washington, New York is still host of the United Nations. Yes, I am well aware, the UN, is not a power in itself, however the fact that it is a political forum where all the leaders of world converge and discuss problems, this alone makes the UN important, and of course New York is the natural choice for the UN, as one of the most internatinal cities in the world.

  3. #33

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    ^When he said "surpass" New York, he meant city proper population--not metro.

  4. #34

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    Granted.. isnt't London bigger than nyc in terms of landsize? Its also important to realize that trends .. tend to change. If we are talking about London having a population of 8.2 by 2016, it is impossible to know where NYC will stand by then. The city could be half the size it is or double (or anywhere in between). The fact is, there are numerous events, political, cultural and economical that havent happend yet which dictate migration and immigration trends. All we know now is that New York has 8.1 million people, and that number will change by 2016. As I said before, it is important to note, that New York's metroplitan area is growing rapidly, 9.4% since 1990, New York will continue to be a large population center for the forseeable future. Currently, it is the second largest urban area in the world, after Tokyo (wikipedia).

  5. #35

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    bkmonkey : I have a feeling you are an American. You might want to spend some time outside of the US, especially in a non-English speaking country to get a feel as to what city is percieved to be "The capital of the world". And notice I say "percieved to be". We all understand NYC is "the biggest....", "has the most...." , "Is number #1 for...." but believe me, most people around the globe donīt consider NYC to be the worldīs capital. Ask people: "NYC" or "DC"? The answer will most likely be "DC". NYC is mostly considered the place that represents American finance ....but the shots are called in Washington. Remember that the 9/11 terrorists targeted NYC, but also sent 2 planes to attack Washington. The White House and the Pentagon are truly seen as the seat of American power in the world .....and they are both in Washington. The UN in comparison means nothing. Also: most are aware of the cultural pull of American movies, TV and music.... and for that (right or wrong), most will point to Hollywood.

  6. #36

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    The term "Capital of the World" is contrived.

    The city with the most influence in the world is indeed Washington DC, but not because of the city itself. It projects the entire weight of America upon the rest of the globe.

    New York City does not represent America. In fact, much of the world considers it an anomaly of American culture - not necessarily a bad thing.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp

    New York City does not represent America. In fact, much of the world considers it an anomaly of American culture - not necessarily a bad thing.
    It does reperesent American culture, though. In the midwest atleast, where I've lived my entire life, New York is the cool place to be. It's without a doubt more liberal, but people are still influenced and fascinated by the things that go on there.

  8. #38

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    If you are discussing the Capital of the World, then the foreign perception is the relevant one.

    It is true that you have to spend some time in foreign countries to appreciate the pervasive presence of American influence. That influence is perceived to be emanating from Washington, not New York.

    I am not talking about how popular, or well liked, New York is.

  9. #39

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    In politics, yes, but I was talking about culture.

    I see your point, though, Zippy.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    I am not talking about how popular, or well liked, New York is.
    I think this helps me finally wrap my head around this capital of the world bs. NYC as[edit] the most popular city in the world - isn't that enough for all the NYC boosters?

    If NYC were the "capital" of the world - or even this country, I would expect to see the values and culture of nyc more reflected in other places more than I do. People in other parts of the world might aspire to images of NYC, but at least in the rest of this country it's a superficial and unrealized aspiration.

    Currently texas culture is much more dominant than NYC culture, and I'm not just talking about bush, but general cultural values and morals of the midwest.
    Last edited by ryan; July 5th, 2005 at 05:40 PM.

  11. #41

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    Thoughtful comment Zippy, I see what you mean. I think that New York is certainly a part of American culture, simply because so much of our media, and our movies are set in New York. Americans are often flooded with "New York". Just look at this years top movies-- Batman "Gotham" a nickname for New York, and an achronysm for New York (taken to the extreme ofcourse) Fantastic 4 (I expect this to be a big hit) another comic movie set directly in the city (along with spiderman, and x-men). I go to school in delaware, with people from around the country and around the world. I think many people view New York as the "big city" and indeed to many Americans "big city" culture plays a role in life (im not sure how big it is)

  12. #42

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    Ryan: careful when you say: "NYC is the most popular city in the world..."

    It depends on what you mean by "popular" and I donīt know how the statistics are now, but for quite sometime Paris was considered to be the top destination for international travel and tourism. The most "popular" cities... (that is "must see" cities) as far as tourism goes, are Paris, London, NY and Rome. Rember that for the longest time NYC with itīs crime rate of nearly 2000 murders (!) a year was certainly not considered a popular place or a place anyone wanted to aspire to as a model. Paris, London and Rome never had to live down that sort of reputation... Even setting NY as the site of popular movies is rather new: by the late 60īs, NY was constantly portrayed as a very scary place.
    Last edited by Fabrizio; July 5th, 2005 at 03:47 PM.

  13. #43
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    sigh. what if I edited it to "new york as the most popular city"? If you read my posts, you'd see that I find this kind of boasting pointless and boring - and that I'm trying to understand the compulsion rather than engage in it.

  14. #44

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    An even bigger *sigh*.

    Ryan: I am well aware of you feelings on the whole issue. Youīve stated them clearly. I am simply responding to the comment (well you wrote it ... see above ) "NYC is the most popular city in the world - isn't that enough for all the NYC boosters?" Whether you believe it, disbelieve it... or are saying it in an ironic way... I did want to pause and examine the comment a minute.... good for the forum... itīs called "discussion".

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    3 of them are in New York, and 12 of them are somewhere within the United States---more than any other nation. 5(or 6[not sure]) are based in London; the United Kingdom as a whole has 6; half the US's count.
    America's banking industry is decentralized compared to the UK's (how couldn't be? The US is 40X larger :lol: ), but it still heavily relies on financial activity in New York; for example, notice that every American bank on that list is traded on the New York Stock exchange.
    London has the largest consolidated banking centre of any city on the planet (6 trading headquarters compared to New York's 3). This is backed up by the fact that it has the largest concentration of international banks than any other city on the planet (roughly around 2x that of New York, Paris and Frankfurt) due to the concentration of the markets and geographical location between New York and Tokyo. Another interesting fact is that London headquartered banks HSBC and Standard Chartered Group are two of the three banks (BoC being the other) that print banknotes for Hong Kong. HSBC and Standard Chartered Group are also well positioned for future Asian growth, more so than any other UK or US banking group simply because of their colonial ties. HSBC for example is to date the largest corporate financial investor into Chin. Standard Chartered used to be one of the world's largest banks, then it went into a dip and was at one time going to be brought up by Lloyds TSB. Now its the fastest growing developed economy based bank in the world thanks to its business in China and India. There is talk that if the Asian economy doesn't overheat, that it

    Now considering I've just taught you this in a PM the other day I think you should take it easy




    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    When it comes to business, New York is the clear winner:
    Actually its not just that simple, for actual numbers of companies Tokyo comes out ahead, then its New York and then its London. A top 10/20/50, etc list doesn't who it until you observe the full 2,000 list.

    Also if you just take cities into account as technically London has a quasi-metro area that nobody knows the exact boundaries of:
    Citigroup - New York City
    American International - New York City
    BP - London
    HSBC - London
    Shell - London/Rotterdam
    RBoS - London/Edinburgh
    Altria Group - New York City
    Pfizer - New York City
    Verizon Communications - New York City
    Barclays - London
    Morgan Stanley - New York City


    New York City - 6
    London - 5

    A complex company structure between London and Rotterdam explains Shell, while RBoS is split between the HQ and trading HQ (formerly NatWest Bank) in Edinburgh and London. The UK is quite successful when it comes to business and finance.

    You would expect the influence in business of the US to be 5x that, in reality its more around 3.6x.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    New York is globally known as the 'financial capital of the world' because of its role in international business, which closely relates to its huge stock exchanges; like NYSE, Nasdaq, AMEX, etc--that's what the media pays attention to. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I researched it on Wikipedia and a random searches on the LSE website, it looks like 17 of the top 20 companies are traded on the NYSE, while 5 of them are traded on the London Stock Exchange. This is completely understandable, though, as New York is the financial and economic hub of a nation that is home to 711 of the world's 2000 largest companies[more than the entire continent of Europe].
    And I know how important London is when it comes to insurance, and I'm sure you have a bunch of little facts and graphs to back it up--but the world's largest insurance company, AIG, HQ'd in New York has more sales and a larger market value than the UK's top 20 combined.
    Globally known by whom? Those that work within the industry and study it (like myself) or those that only just found out the other day that the UK and London has a few more teeth to bite with?

    NY's stock exchanges might be the world's largest, but they handle only $40bn each day. London's currency markets handle around 18x that - $700bn DAILY. Then on top of that London's OTC derivatives market trades at around $600bn each day (or 43% of the global OTC derivatives market or around 15x that of the NYSE); it doesn't mean that they are unimportant or not critical to the global economy because they are and if London's currency markets collapsed, it would make a recession like a very lovely holiday.

    Now the reason your unlikely to hear of the OTC derivatives market on say Bloomberg other than on a special bulletin, is simply because mass-media shows only information that the average person might be connected with: shares. I have shares, so obviously the stock markets concern me...but the OTC and currency markets (you might see exchange rates on TV) are each larger than the global stock market systems and operate towards banks, wealthy private individuals, pension funds, governments, etc. Now if you read a publication alike to the Financial Times (like myself) or an equivalent you might notice such issues being talked about.

    London's financial strength is practically in everything other than shares and that is where it quite literally takes New York to the slaughterhouse. Its just because they aren't as 'open' to the public that they aren't recognised or even known...yet they go about making the economy go.

    Actually there are differences between the insurance offered at say AIG and that by say Lloyds of London. Lloyds of London is the world's premier insurance/reinsurance market. When there is a nautural disaster, eg a tornado in the US - the cost is measured at Lloyds and the payment made out. When the WTC was destroyed, the financial underwriting had been done at Lloyds and Lloyds took the brunt of the compensation. It goes from the insurance of around 50% of all world shippage and aircraft (largest market holder) to even the most craziest of things such as insurance on Tina Turner's legs.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    Sports=probably London, but I don't know--I just golf. :lol:
    History=London, but it really depends on what period and kind of history you're into.
    Music? New York is fantastic when it comes to music! The big four record labels are:

    Sony-BMG Music Entertainment: The world's largest record label by market share=Headquartered in New York City.
    Universal Music Group: The world's second largest record label=Headquartered in New York City.
    EMI Group=The world's 3rd largest record label=Headquartered in London, with EMI Music Publishing based in New York City.
    Warner Brothers=A subsidiary of NYC based Time Warner, Warner Brothers is headquartered in Burbank, California.
    Come on now with sports. Neither basketball, baseball of AFL are the world's most followed sports. Football, rugby, cricket and tennis are. The US might be insular when it comes to world sports, but for the other 6bn other people in this world - they know and worship these sports. People kill and commit suicide because it gets so emotion. Wembley is probably the most recognised global stadium. Golf is also a British invented sport also :laugh:

    The most famous road to do with soundtrack production? Abbey Road Studios, London. Hendrix came to London to make it big. Infact most music soundtracks are recorded by London orchestras. Then you had just the other day the world's most watched and greatest concert ever: Live8. The premier concert held in London's Hyde Park where the likes of Brad Pitt, Kofi Annan and Bill Gates introduced acts such as Madonna, Pink Floyd, U2, Scissor Sisters, REM, Annie Lennox, Mariah Carey, The Who, Robbie Williams, The Killers, Dido, Coldplay, Paul McCartney, Sir Elton John, Snoop Dogg, etc...

    For most people - such an event as the Live8 concert seen in London would most likely rank higher than where music labels are based. These are cultural events that are probably higher ranked amongst the average person than a business or financial institution. The allure of London now holding the 2012 Olympics will also be a bonus in the eyes that its a true global and great city.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    I knew that; but it's only program formats; some Brits at SSC were thinking families in Ohio were sitting around after dinner to watch Dr. Who or something. Even though that's very impressive, it's just the format.
    As for the actual programs, I believe the United States is the actual top exporter. There was a thread at skyscrapercity.com a while ago about the forumers' favorite TV shows--I tallied the results:
    I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing up that list....it doesn't show dominance whatsoever as the vast majority of those shows aren't even filmed there. The shareholders of those production companies are also global and may well be based in say London.

    The format is important, to get a clean slate for it to be so successful in the world probably talks about a good deal of success in developing broad programming. In other words, its not about showing a UK venture, but a product modelled for the foreign country of destination, hence why they have been so successful.

    Then again if it interests you - Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston (although split) are addicted to London-based Eastenders. Infact I believe Jennifer is starting a Eastenders-inspired soap drama for the US. Brad Pitt on the otherhand is in the process of moving to London to become a better architect (which I dont quite understand as Gehry's offices are in LA, then again Pitt is working on a project in Brighton - where Britney Spears will also I hear be moving to ).




    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    Speaking of Batman, yeah, the funding was American--and it came from a New York City based company. Gotham is also a metaphor of New York City.
    Another movie produced by a company owned in New York is War of the World's. The original story was written by a Brit a hundred years ago. Today, though, it is an American movie set in New York with an American director and with American actors. And, more than likely, it will dominate the British box office next week.
    I just find it interesting that us Brits can revolutionise the Batman franchise, while Spielberg has kept to the original story which is still so famous. Infact Britain has produced quite a few literary geniuses. The top two movie franchises of all time: Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter were written by Brits. Brits seem to be quite good at global influences.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pottebaum
    I've probably mentioned this before..but just because there's a massive amount of international migration into London doesn't mean it's actually gaining that much population.
    Take a look at this:
    But that graph means nothing more than London having the larger foreign born population % than New York within a few years. It also means that as London grows at a faster rate than New York that in the next few years it will also have a higher city proper population and total foreign born population.

    For example between 2000 and 2004 (4 years), New York City grew by 95,801 citizens. London in comparison between 2001 and 2005 (4 years) grew by 249,192 - 2.6x faster than New York City. London's growth rate might I add is increasing what with the opening of the UK to the new Eastern European EU accenssion countries (London estimates alone in 2004 put at 40,000 for 10 countries). The reason is London has one of the most favourable geographical, political and social situations around. London's population should overtake New York in around 2015-2020, we are at the start of strong growth, not average growth. Infact just the other day, Ken Livingstone the Mayor of London along with Richard Rogers who manages the 'London Masterplan' proposed a new city within London with a popualation of around 1mn called 'City East'.




    TLOZ Link5 - London, like many other UK cities lost a lot of its population. The population ended up shifting not into suburbs (like in the US beyond the city proper boundaries), because of the green belts (that stop the sprawl that even New York is a vicim of) but into commuter towns that orbit London. Growth I should add is increasing in London, infact London is now reaching the levels of growth seen in Victorian times. There are some very interesting times ahead, including a push to Paris or Manhattan density in and around Stratford (where the Olympics will be held)...currently the site is a wasteland.




    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    But for the overall big picture: itīs Washington DC.
    I personally don't believe there is a world capital. I do believe though that there is one city that comes close to covering all sectors with high marks (diversity, economy, finance, business, politics, culture, etc...) and that city is London.




    Quote Originally Posted by bkmonkey
    New York City will continue to grow.. you cannot forget that New York has a huge metropolitian area with over 22 million people (2005) and that number is rapidly growing. In comparison London is much smaller with 12.5 million people. (wikipedia). I very much doubt that London will overtake New York in population. New York's population growth is only accelerating anyway. Now... lets be serious. We are talking about capitol in the context of global city. Which city has the most influence around the globe, New York or Washington.. London or Washington. New York is the centre of American culture, media, economics, and a large portions of its politics. Consider this, the capitol of a nation or a state, is often not it;s most important city. What is the capitol of New York State, or California? Often capitols such a such as Washington DC are planned to take power away from a specific metropolis such as New York. (the capitol was originally in nyc). Political decisions in New York are made in Albany, however that does not mean that Albany is more important than New York. However, just because the political centre is in Washington, New York is still host of the United Nations. Yes, I am well aware, the UN, is not a power in itself, however the fact that it is a political forum where all the leaders of world converge and discuss problems, this alone makes the UN important, and of course New York is the natural choice for the UN, as one of the most internatinal cities in the world.
    I should note that London has a metro area of 18mn over an area of 22,000kmē. New York's metro area I believe is 21mn over an area of 27,000kmē.

    Now I am unsure of growth rates for London or New York's metro, but London's metro too is growing - its infact seeing most of its growth from the North of England and outer regions. Alas I have no figures so I can't really state much here other than the fact that it too is growing.

    What you have to look at, is that in the US you have New York and Washington. In the UK and Europe you have London - politics, economics, culture, business and finance all intertwined in one urban centre.

    Also I believe the UN being based in NYC is more to do with the influence Washington wanted to have on the international body. Naturally it could never be placed in a Washington for fears of tainting. Yet what do you mean by international? London has the largest amount of international connections (GaWC) than any other city on the planet. It also so happens to have the largest number of 5,000+ and 10,000+ foreign born populations than any other city.




    Quote Originally Posted by bkmonkey
    Granted.. isnt't London bigger than nyc in terms of landsize? Its also important to realize that trends .. tend to change. If we are talking about London having a population of 8.2 by 2016, it is impossible to know where NYC will stand by then. The city could be half the size it is or double (or anywhere in between). The fact is, there are numerous events, political, cultural and economical that havent happend yet which dictate migration and immigration trends. All we know now is that New York has 8.1 million people, and that number will change by 2016. As I said before, it is important to note, that New York's metroplitan area is growing rapidly, 9.4% since 1990, New York will continue to be a large population center for the forseeable future. Currently, it is the second largest urban area in the world, after Tokyo (wikipedia).
    Yes London is larger than New York in terms of land area: 1,579kmē compared to 800.31kmē for New York City. Yet city proper boundaries don't really make much difference. The City of Paris for instance is only 86.928 kmē.

    London though is a city that has only in the last 20 years re-aligned its priorities into a global city. Yes trends do change, growth could speed up or slow down. Yet indicators now are that London is absorbing more and more people like never before from foreign countries and growth is not stalling or levelling off - its actually accelerating. Hence the announcement the other day of City East and the continual development of the Thames Gateway (construction of 200,000 new homes).




    Fabrizio - I should note that the most visited city in the world is now.......London since late 2004. According to a report by Mintel:
    "The English capital welcomed 11.6m overseas visitors and 16.1m UK tourists in 2002 - ahead of its nearest rival Paris which had 9m foreign visitors."








    And I should congratulate NYC for giving a good attempt at the 2012 Olympics, had the red tape not been so dense, it might have made things more interesting. Ah well roll on 2012 in London AND another 80,000 seater stadium for the city - what better for one of the greatest cities in the world to beat 2 of the other greatest cities in the world for the greatest sports event ever. All we need to do now is get the World Cup and we'll be sorted!

    Then again the best bit is when Blair will welcome Chirac to Gleneagles - I want to see Chirac's face after all the idiotic things he has said in recent weeks!





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